[Update]Wurkkos dual LEDs 21700 Headlamp design Photos/UI update~

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Wurkkos
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AEDe wrote:
Lux-Perpetua wrote:
Any feedback is welcome.

Turbo should be kiked out from cycle low->med->hi.
Changing of flood/throw is difficult and takes a lot of time.

For example I walk using flood light, then I want to look further, and turn on max throw.and than go back to flood.

Combination click+hold can be used for changing light type. Flood>throw>both


thank you for the feedback, we will think about it and adjust the UI better
roostre
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Lux-Perpetua wrote:
... Any feedback is welcome. THX.

Thank you for all your efforts.  They are greatly appreciated as I have learned from your posts and studied the manuals (even for lights I do not own) which you have provided at:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1e1IWuBMaDQu-YjuigGpMwdUPErdUrMhe

 

Below are my personal opinions, but please take them as advisement only and make your own final decision, as I am not aware of everything you took into consideration before making your decisions.

 

"1x click" could be more clearly be stated as "1 click"

"2x click" could be more clearly be stated as "2 clicks"

"3x click" could be more clearly be stated as "3 clicks"

"4x click" could be more clearly be stated as "4 clicks"

"Cycle to standard strobe mode" could be more simply be stated as "Cycle to Strobe mode"

"Cycle to SOS strobe mode" could be more simply be stated as"Cycle to SOS mode"

"Cycle to Beacon strobe mode" could be more simply be stated as"Cycle to Beacon mode"

 

In the section "When the headlamp is OFF", after using "2x click" to Strobe, SOS, or Beacon mode I am assuming it is "1x click" to "Turn OFF" but this was not clearly stated for those modes.  Maybe to be more clear the"1x click" "Turn OFF" line in the chart should be the bottom line of that section and state "1 click" "Turn OFF from any of these modes" and use a similar type wording ("1 click" "Return to previous standard mode from any of these modes") in the "When the headlamp is ON" section.  Or have both the original "1x click" line and also a bottom "1x click" line in the chart so it is very clear (but that would be more words which is not always best).  But it is OK as is, it just was not as obvious to me as your instructions for the rest of the chart were.

 

It was not clear if both LEDs are on at full power in Strobe, SOS, and Beacon mode like they are in the Turbo mode.

 

It would not be a true "Electronic Lockout" if moonlight remains on after a "Long press" while in "4x click" lockout mode.  I would not want my headlamp to discharge unexpectedly while in my backpack.  I would have it locked out mechanically by un-twisting the tail cap or head but others may not.  The mechanical un-twist lockout method should also be mentioned in the manual as some may not know about that.

 

Your choice for the sequential order of "Strobe, SOS, and Beacon" is the best compromise.  Strobe is the mode most people expect first.  SOS would be the most important emergency mode.  Beacon is the mode probably used the most but the order you have chosen is easy to remember and what most people would probably expect.

 

"Click" or "Long Press" to change brightness levels is the most difficult decision as there are pros and cons for each method.  With a flashlight I can live with either but with a headlamp I would probably prefer "Click" to change brightness levels because (in the most difficult situations where I may be using a headlamp) I have an easier time getting to the correct level I want when doing it this way while wearing a headlamp which is moving around on my head while I "Click" or "Long Press".  But if you use "Click" for brightness level changes then you must also use "Long Press" for OFF.  It is probably best to choose the most common method as you have done because that is what most people expect and would want.

 

I do not know the specific mechanism as to how the proposed "3x click" "Check battery function" will operate (maybe different colors and/or blink patterns on the switch's internal LEDs to indicate the voltage) but In addition to that I would also like to have a low voltage battery warning that occurs automatically while the headlamp is on and is also very noticeable while I am wearing the headlamp on my head (as I will not be able to see the switch).  Maybe something like a blink sequence that occurs occasionally as low voltage is approached and then more frequently and finally almost continuously right before the headlamp light cuts out due to low voltage (and I hope this headlamp will have true built-in low voltage protection besides just a low voltage warning).

 

I do like lights that have a way to keep the switch's internal LED illuminated while the light is off because it helps me find the light in the dark.  But please provide an option to turn this feature on and off and do not make it too bright or breathing.

 

I also agree with forum member AEDe that Turbo should not be in the standard mode cycle (unless is it sustainable for more than a few minutes) and agree with AEDe that it would be innovative to have a more convenient way to very easily change between "Spotlight and Floodlight on" "Spotlight only", or "Floodlight only".

How many flashlights does a "real man" need?

None, real men are not afraid of the dark.

nick779
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Oh I like this alot. Ive been waiting for a new headlamp and this one hits all the marks so far.

I didnt read the whole thread, but was the flood emitter a high CRI SST20?

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Thank you AEDe and roostre for your valuable feedback. I take your suggestions seriously as you probably have much more experience with headlamps than I do. AEDe for instance, you provided us with some great on-site pictures using your Panda headlamp some months ago. So, to make a long story short: I have tried to simplify the UI according to your input as well as to make HD20 more convenient to operate.

I had the idea to include an "off mode" for each LED in the standard mode order. The benefit is that we can spare the triple click to adjust between spotlight, floodlight or both. Each LED can be accessed and controlled easily in its brightness by two commands: Hold or Click'n Hold. What do you guys think of that? Would that be convenient and easy to memorize at the same time without losing too much functionality that a dual emitter light can provide?

I also agree that an accidentally triggered moonlight from lockout is not what we want. So, I would change that to a temporary or momentary moonlight as long as someone keeps the button pressed.

 

@Mark (Wurkkos):

I hope you and Sofirn will be able to wait things out until we have a decent UI that most customers will feel happy with. I think we are very close to saying "Yep, that's what we want." Smile Without meaning to be nitpicking I think that some former lights were launched a bit too early in the first place and fortunately became much better afterwards due to reasonable UI changes, e.g. Wurkkos FC11. I would like HD20 to start with a great UI from the very beginning.

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 Would sure like to see this UI in an FSM implementation. Should not be difficult to do, being so close to how Anduril works.

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For the UI why not use anduril? It has a verry nice way of handeling 2 led channels, and would be a selling point to everyone familiar with it. putting anduril on it would probably tip me personally into buying it.

BurningPlayd0h
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This UI is looking pretty fantastic so far.

My concern is that if both LEDs are cycled to the “Off” mode, will the light itself technically still be on? How will that be handled in mode memory – for example will turning it “On” not activate either emitter then?

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Serifus wrote:
For the UI why not use anduril? It has a verry nice way of handeling 2 led channels, and would be a selling point to everyone familiar with it. putting anduril on it would probably tip me personally into buying it.

Not an official answer at all but my personal interpretation:

  • Andúril would probably need to be configured to the driver's characteristics (e.g. it needs to fit to the corresponding MCU, NTP sensor), its thermal calibration needs to be properly carried out from factory in order to work as intended.
  • Moreover, Sofirn/Wurkkos would need someone with in-depth expertise to have Andúril tailored to HD20. I don't know how much time someone like ToyKeeper or anyone else familiar with FSM is able and willing to spend for this important task. Lately, my impression on BLF is that more and more manufacturers - small or big ones - get interested in selling their lights with Andúril UI. This trend will inevitably lead to a situation of delays in UI development with only a handful of coders/programmers experienced with FSM.
  • Last but not least, you already named a quite important term..."a selling point to everyone familiar with it". As much as I like Andúril and all of its features, it takes a considerable learning curve to understand and memorize all of its great features. Now, let's just switch for a moment from the customer's point of view to the seller's point of view. If your customer service team gets a ton of questions asked from inexperienced users who just refuse to read the manual (for whatever reasons), you need to have well-trained employees familiar with Andúril and probably a significantly higher headcount. If customers return their lights in large amounts due to misinterpretation of the UI (e.g. being trapped somewhere in the UI), sales managers may reconsider using a complex UI for a light targed for the masses. Please do not confuse an OEM manufacturer like Sofirn with someone like Hank Wang (Noctigon/Emisar) who has clearly focused more or less on one UI only for all of his lights and who has a smaller variety of lights for sale. Sofirn's or Wurkkos's largest target group is the "standard customer" who apparently needs a short and concise manual with a foolproof UI. Taking these circumstances into account, I'm even more impressed that they still have two open ears for a considerably smaller target group of us flashoholics/nerds and that they continuously try to fulfill our special wishes, too. I think they would like to combine the best of both worlds to reach every potential customer - who wouldn't?

Personally, I would like to see a stripped version of Andúril with less complexity (no floor/ceiling configuration, no blinky modes, no AUX support, but with simple stepped modes and ramping as well as with a good thermal configuration) that could be adopted more easily in large scale. To be honest, I really like the FC11 UI which IMHO only lacks a manually configurable thermal stepdown.

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BurningPlayd0h wrote:
This UI is looking pretty fantastic so far. My concern is that if both LEDs are cycled to the "Off" mode, will the light itself technically still be on? How will that be handled in mode memory - for example will turning it "On" not activate either emitter then?

Very good observation and an even more intriguing question, too. If someone cycles both LEDs to OFF I would consider the light to be in OFF-mode the same way if someone just clicks it to OFF. With mode memory in charge, I would suggest Wurkkos to use the battery status indicator in the switch to light up for 5s (likewise to most of Sofirn's lights that light up the indicator when being turned on) to indicate that the OFF modes are set to both LEDs. But maybe there are more, better ideas how to deal with this?

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Ramping UI may be also interesting. Hold – change only output, click+hold – change throw\flood ratio with constant output. (E-zoom:)

Lux-Perpetua, I think Hold – for change output of current Led(or both) , and click+hold for changing throw-flood-both is more convinient. You can save 3 combinations and change it fast. It is similar to Panda 3 UI.

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Serifus wrote:
For the UI why not use anduril? It has a verry nice way of handeling 2 led channels, and would be a selling point to everyone familiar with it. putting anduril on it would probably tip me personally into buying it.

Exactly how is that? Implemented on what light? All I know of is tint blending on the LT1.

 

Sofirn is working on more Anduril lights, so I don't see a big problem in using an FSM compatible driver.

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Tom E wrote:

Serifus wrote:
For the UI why not use anduril? It has a verry nice way of handeling 2 led channels, and would be a selling point to everyone familiar with it. putting anduril on it would probably tip me personally into buying it.

Exactly how is that? Implemented on what light? All I know of is tint blending on the LT1.


 


Sofirn is working on more Anduril lights, so I don’t see a big problem in using an FSM compatible driver.

IF25 had tint-ramping and although it may have been coded independent of Anduril had some very similar functions.

Lux-Perpetua wrote:

BurningPlayd0h wrote:
This UI is looking pretty fantastic so far. My concern is that if both LEDs are cycled to the “Off” mode, will the light itself technically still be on? How will that be handled in mode memory – for example will turning it “On” not activate either emitter then?

Very good observation and an even more intriguing question, too. If someone cycles both LEDs to OFF I would consider the light to be in OFF-mode the same way if someone just clicks it to OFF. With mode memory in charge, I would suggest Wurkkos to use the battery status indicator in the switch to light up for 5s (likewise to most of Sofirn’s lights that light up the indicator when being turned on) to indicate that the OFF modes are set to both LEDs. But maybe there are more, better ideas how to deal with this?

Personally I would go with “Hold” for brightness adjustment and “Click+hold” for cycling spot/flood/both emitters. Leaves double-click open for turbo/blinky modes and doesn’t run into the problem with both emitters being set to “Off”.

Having the indicator LED light up (maybe even with a flashing pattern specifically for the scenario?) when both are set to “Off” does seem to be the best solution if the separate output selection UI is used though.

Dual-channel ramping could be cool, but the UI would be similar to the IF25 and I agree completely that you can’t bloat/complicate the UI too much for the market/niche Wurkkos is targeting.

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thank you for all feedback, can’t wait to realize this model .will update to factory to do some modify. Thank you Lux-Perpetua collect all information

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I have discussed the latest approach of HD20's UI with Mark (Wurkkos) today. We came to following conclusion:

  • I will incorporate the latest input from you guys into the new draft UI. Special thanks to AEDe and BurningPlayd0h for their helpful feedback.
  • This final draft UI will then be discussed with the manufacturer in the next days.
  • Ramping mode will still remain on Wurkkos's schedule for HD20 but it might be implemented in a later revision, depending on many factors like market launch schedule, increase in UI complexity etc.. I will try to post an enhanced UI with ramping mode here but I cannot tell for sure if this will be adopted by the manufacturer in revision 1 already or later on in revision 2.

I have urged Wurkkos to put extra care on a good and reliable headstrap/headband to properly support the weight of this light. A magnetic tailcap would surely be a nice add on but it will also increase HD20's weight. So, maybe they can sell a magnetic tailcap individually or put both versions (magnetic/non-magnetic) in the retail box. A big benefit would be a tailcap design that fits to more Sofirn/Wurkkos 21700 lights.

Another update:

Wurkkos is about to decide whether they should sell HD20 with 4.000K for floodlight and 5.000K for spotlight or with both LEDs in 5.000K CCT. I told Mark that 5.000K for both LEDs cannot be wrong. However, when using two different tints in one flashlight the beam should hopefully look nice when both CCTs will be mixed.

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My vision of good ui)

From off
1 Click – memory mode
2 Click -> Turbo
3 Click – Strobs modes
Click+Hold – Batt Check.
4 Click+ Hold – lock|unlock
Hold – moon light (memory type of light .)
6 Click+Hold – changing steped/ramping UI

From Strobes mode
1 Click – off
2 Click – Turbo
3 Click – Return to previous mode
Hold – Changing SoS-strob1-strob2…

From Turbo mode
1 Click – off
2 Click – Return to previous mode
3 Click – Strobs modes
Hold – Change in circle Throw turbo – Both turbo – Flood turbo (may be memory ?)

Steped UI
From on
1 Click – off
2 Click – Turbo
3 Click – Strobs modes
Hold – Changing output in circle Low-Med-Hi.
Click+Hold – Changing type of light in circle Flood-Throw-Both. (output is remembered)

Ramping UI
From on
1 Click – off
2 Click – Turbo
3 Click – Strobs modes
Hold – Increasing output then decreasing it.
Click+Hold – Changing ratio throw|flood with constant output.

AEDe
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Lux-Perpetua wrote:

Wurkkos is about to decide whether they should sell HD20 with 4.000K for floodlight and 5.000K for spotlight or with both LEDs in 5.000K CCT. I told Mark that 5.000K for both LEDs cannot be wrong. However, when using two different tints in one flashlight the beam should hopefully look nice when both CCTs will be mixed.


I am for 4000K flood. In this case I should change only throw led to 4000K)
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Lux-Perpetua wrote:
... A magnetic tailcap would surely be a nice add on but it will also increase HD20's weight. So, maybe they can sell a magnetic tailcap individually or put both versions (magnetic/non-magnetic) in the retail box. A big benefit would be a tailcap design that fits to more Sofirn/Wurkkos 21700 lights...

It would be best to design a tail cap where the magnet can be removed and replaced with a non-magnetic spacer, that way you have a choice.

Maybe the removable magnet could be under a tail cap spring board that is held in place by a thin threaded ring (which uses the same threads as the tail cap) if this could be done without compromising the electrical reliability of the light.

 

Experienced outdoor people still use maps and compasses during their outdoor adventures.

Any magnet within several feet of a compass will affect the accuracy of the compass reading disastrously.  You cannot have a headlamp with a magnetic tail cap anywhere near your compass and also navigate accurately because the magnet changes the compass bearing to the wrong direction.

How many flashlights does a "real man" need?

None, real men are not afraid of the dark.

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Dear all,

Let me recommend another LED as 5000K option: Samsung LH351C
This LED has significantly smaller light emitting surface, than LH351D, but it can be driven to very similar maximum power as the Luminus SST-20 (I remember somebody tested it here on BLF above 5A current, so e.g. 3.5A could be perfectly safe).

With this, we could have 5000K 90 CRI under the throwy optic – unfortunately SST-20 high CRI is still not manufactured beyond 4000K, so this would be the solution not to sacrifice throw and keeping it high CRI the same time.

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Is Hicri is necessary for throw? I would prefer xpl hi with good tint and efficiency for throw,and good quality light of 351D hicri (ideally nichia E21 of course) for flood.

adam7027
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For me, it is a big plus. I have C8 both with XM-L2 4500K 75 CRI and SST-20 4000K 95 CRI, and the XM-L2 has noticeably “dumber” beam, when it comes to object recognition in low contrast scenes. And I also have the fabulous K1 with SST-20 4000K (which is no longer an option offered by the manufacturer).

However, in some extreme throw designs (above 500kcd), I think, it is less important – then it is mostly about perceived good tint.

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AEDe wrote:
My vision of good ui) [...]

Большое спасибо, андрей! Smile

I really like your vision of a good UI and I think most of your thoughts have made it into the (hopefully) final draft of HD20's UI. There are only two things I like different:

  • From Turbo mode: one click ▶ OFF is something I would not like at all. If I used doubleclick to step up from a normal mode to turbo, I would expect a single click to return back to the previous mode and another single click to turn the light OFF again. In a situation when I need full power for a brief moment, I would not want the light to go out with the necessity to start it again. Just my personal thoughts.
  • Personally, I don't like strobe modes and I would want to them to be hidden in a way they cannot be activated accidentally. It happened to me more than once that I accidentally clicked three times instead of two times and suddenly the annoying flashing, flickering and buzzing began. So, my proposal would be a compromise between convenience and safety (against accidental activation). Strobe modes will still be there but less easier accessible from the turbo mode submenu. Why? Because it is less likely to use another doubleclick when the light is used on full power already than a unintended triple click when using the normal modes. In an emergency situation strobes can still be accessed with enough flexibility by two/three/four doubleclicks in a row. Again, this is just my personal opinion but at least I hope this approach sounds sensible to many others.

 

So, lo and behold...the UI that I hope Mark can present to Sofirn for their evaluation.

Remark for Mark (Wurkkos): Please regard the green highlighted line items as a possible enhancement for using the ramping mode on HD20. If ramping mode is no option for HD20 right now, please just disregard the green colored line items.

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AEDe wrote:
Is Hicri is necessary for throw? I would prefer xpl hi with good tint and efficiency for throw,and good quality light of 351D hicri (ideally nichia E21 of course) for flood.

I try to talk to Mark about emitter options a.s.a.p.

SST-20 5.000K 70CRI was probably chosen for reasons of low costs compared to XP-L HI. Another reason could be that Sofirn probably got quite some stock of SST-20 5.000K 70CRI but only few or nothing on stock of good XP-L HI with less than 6.000K. It seems it's difficult for them to get lower CCTs of XP-L HI. Sofirn might be able to test some Osram White Flats in the near future but since it is coldwhite only and difficult to handle (footprint/focusing) I guess we can rule this one out, too. I don't think anyone has ever used LH351C yet but their specs look promising.

Having the upcoming start of production in mind, I guess we need to decide between a coldwhite XP-L HI (probably 6.500K or maybe 5.700K) or a less powerful but smaller SST-20 5.000K 70CRI.

 

I think for LH351D 5.000K 90CRI we also have few options only.

  • LH351D 5.000K 70CRI / LH351D 4.000K 70/90CRI - never saw these available or planned in Sofirn's lights but I wish they were open for testing the 70CRIs of LH351D as their efficiency is much better (in return of less color rendition)
  • XP-L2 (but IMHO they probably have nothing lower than 5.700K) - as efficient as LH351D, beam looks good under a (fitting) TIR lens but awful in a reflector
  • XP-L HD (but IMHO they probably have nothing lower than 5.700K)
  • Nichia 219C - bad efficiency and hard to source for Sofirn as I remember from former inquiries
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Some comments on the user interface chart:

 

"Activate Moonlight mode" would be more consistent with the rest of the chart if the wording was "Turn ON Moonlight mode".

 

"Temporary moonlight mode while holding the button pressed" could be more simply stated as "Temporary moonlight mode while pressing button".

 

"mode memory and changes apply to selected flood/spot/both LED mode" could be more simply stated as "Selected brightness and LED modes are memorized".

EDIT: maybe I misinterpreted what you are saying here.  Are you saying that each LED mode can memorize different brightness?  Meaning that I could set "spotlight only" brightness to "high", "floodlight only" brightness to "low", and "both LEDs" brightness to "medium"?

If so, then maybe wording should be "Selected brightness for each LED mode and which LED mode was last used are memorized".

 

"Activate Turbo mode (both LEDs at full power)" would be more consistent with the rest of the chart if the wording was "Turn ON Turbo mode (both LEDs at full power)".

EDIT: your original wording "Activate Turbo mode (both LEDs at full power)" is probably better since the headlamp is already ON ("Turn ON" wording would only be better if headlamp was OFF).  

 

How many flashlights does a "real man" need?

None, real men are not afraid of the dark.

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Lux-Perpetua wrote:

This looks great. I wonder if needed or good idea to add single led turbo on 2click +Hold & alternates led choice every 1 second till release.

Also not sure how 1H ramping ‘ change ratio flood/spot’ functions? Why not cycle like stepped mode?

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jp9mm wrote:

Also not sure how 1H ramping ‘ change ratio flood/spot’ functions? Why not cycle like stepped mode?

It allows adjustment of how much spot vs flood is wanted, vs having them both locked to the same output when both are on.

This is looking fantastic Lux-Perpetua and everyone else involved. Very excited for this light since I’ve been waiting for a compact spot/flood combo option for a while, and angled format with option for headlamp use is icing on the cake.

My two cents on the emitters is that you can’t go wrong with 5000K for both, it’s the perfect mid-ground. If possible XP-L HI would definitely look much nicer than SST-20 for throw – the 5000K SST-20s I’ve seen have all been extremely green (unless this light is PWM’ed FET only). I’ve heard the same about very green tint for LH351D 70 CRI, but some batches may be better? The problem with that in the throw role is that the 351D simply isn’t very throwy.

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Lux-Perpetua wrote:


  • From Turbo mode: one click ▶ OFF is something I would not like at all. If I used doubleclick to step up from a normal mode to turbo, I would expect a single click to return back to the previous mode and another single click to turn the light OFF again. In a situation when I need full power for a brief moment, I would not want the light to go out with the necessity to start it again. Just my personal thoughts.

  • Personally, I don’t like strobe modes and I would want to them to be hidden in a way they cannot be activated accidentally. It happened to me more than once that I accidentally clicked three times instead of two times and suddenly the annoying flashing, flickering and buzzing began. So, my proposal would be a compromise between convenience and safety (against accidental activation). Strobe modes will still be there but less easier accessible from the turbo mode submenu. Why? Because it is less likely to use another doubleclick when the light is used on full power already than a unintended triple click when using the normal modes. In an emergency situation strobes can still be accessed with enough flexibility by two/three/four doubleclicks in a row. Again, this is just my personal opinion but at least I hope this approach sounds sensible to many others.

Thanks!
1)Yes that may be convenient. But it make ui logic more difficult. 1 Click is off , everywhere , exept turbo.
For example I use hi mode and than go to turbo and than want to turn off. On last step I should press 1click+1click , and I get not turn off but strob
2)Acording you to get strobes fast from off is 4 Clicks.

Also you miss hold from turbo. This is only way to get separate flood or throw turbo.
Another not obvious thing that
to get mid throw+low flood we should set mid throw , than set low flood , than go to both mode. In both mode changes are low+low – med+ med – hi+hi.

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roostre wrote:

Some comments on the user interface chart:

 

"Activate Moonlight mode" would be more consistent with the rest of the chart if the wording was "Turn ON Moonlight mode".

 

"Temporary moonlight mode while holding the button pressed" could be more simply stated as "Temporary moonlight mode while pressing button".

 

"mode memory and changes apply to selected flood/spot/both LED mode" could be more simply stated as "Selected brightness and LED modes are memorized".

EDIT: maybe I misinterpreted what you are saying here.  Are you saying that each LED mode can memorize different brightness?  Meaning that I could set "spotlight only" brightness to "high", "floodlight only" brightness to "low", and "both LEDs" brightness to "medium"?

If so, then maybe wording should be "Selected brightness for each LED mode and which LED mode was last used are memorized".

 

"Activate Turbo mode (both LEDs at full power)" would be more consistent with the rest of the chart if the wording was "Turn ON Turbo mode (both LEDs at full power)".

EDIT: your original wording "Activate Turbo mode (both LEDs at full power)" is probably better since the headlamp is already ON ("Turn ON" wording would only be better if headlamp was OFF).  

 

Thank your roostre! I have updated the chart i.a.w. your comments. And you were right with your assumption. Each LED mode can memorize different brightness.

 

 

AEDe wrote:
Thanks! 1)Yes that may be convenient. But it make ui logic more difficult. 1 Click is off , everywhere , _exept_ turbo. For example I use hi mode and than go to turbo and than want to turn off. On last step I should press 1click+1click , and I get not turn off but _strob_ 2)Acording you to get strobes fast from off is 4 Clicks.

Yes, there are some trade offs unfortunately. But turning the light off by one click from turbo would be rather inconsistent with every of Wurkkos's and Sofirn's flashlights. I must confess, I am much more used to using a second, separate click to turn it off from turbo. I am confident that 1 click + 1 click will not be handled as a doubleclick.

Would you often need strobe mode from off? 2x doubleclick is rather convenient IMHO to access strobe quickly enough from off.

Either way, I cannot disagree with you as I also see benefits in your UI vision but Wurkkos (and Sofirn, too) are also a bit concerned about too much complexity. To be honest, I would already be more than happy if they adopted let's say 80% of our common ideas for their UI.

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If a hold from turbo drops back into lower modes IMHO that is intuitive and easy enough to access and consistent with many other lights.

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BurningPlayd0h wrote:
If a hold from turbo drops back into lower modes IMHO that is intuitive and easy enough to access and consistent with many other lights.

Interesting idea. What lights use this kind of operation for example? How about the other way around....hold from turbo to turn off? Anyway, Mark is now sending the draft in post #118 to Sofirn for further evaluation.

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Lux-Perpetua wrote:

Yes, there are some trade offs unfortunately. But turning the light off by one click from turbo would be rather inconsistent with every of Wurkkos’s and Sofirn’s flashlights. I must confess, I am much more used to using a second, separate click to turn it off from turbo. I am confident that 1 click + 1 click will not be handled as a doubleclick.


Would you often need strobe mode from off? 2x doubleclick is rather convenient IMHO to access strobe quickly enough from off.


Either way, I cannot disagree with you as I also see benefits in your UI vision but Wurkkos (and Sofirn, too) are also a bit concerned about too much complexity. To be honest, I would already be more than happy if they adopted let’s say 80% of our common ideas for their UI.


1)May be .Will see
2)I do not need strobe at all)) Panda 3 don’t has strobe, and I happy with it.
3) There is proverb in russian “Ложка дегтя портит бочку меда.”(
a spoonful of tar spoils a barrel of honey) I know there are similar things in english too..
I like original Wurkkos UI for 80% ) It junt dont have fast turn on of moonlight and turbo , and memory of moonlight and turbo … So I dont like it in total,but If one changes only Hold for moonlight instead batt check and I would buy it)

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