New Convoy C8 on sale ,hope you love it

[leaftye]

@Bort

The threads the pill screws into are they anodized or aluminum? Straight aluminum is better for heat transfer

It's aluminum. They can't be anodized or the light wouldn't work. It needs bare metal to conduct electricity.

@djozz

@Omega_17

Looks great but why not using integrated heat transfer instead of a pill, like the new convoy M2 ? Possible to have a XP-G2 version later ?

I like a design with a pill, it is much easier working on them and the thermal transfer is way sufficient for even the hottest rods. I think it is a bit unhandy that the M2 moved to a no-pill design.

I see 20mm board support :-) I see a smooth reflector :-) Do I see standard C8-pill support? It is still the exterior C8 design that I don't like, but I guess that is a sort of trademark of the C8.

A pill also makes focusing possible. A no-pill design might accommodate even wider mcpcb's that move the leads further out, which can be a big deal when reflectors have wide bases, although that doesn't seem to be an issue with this light.

[rojos]

@Gj

@comfychair

@Gj

@comfychair

@Gj

@TheGloriousTachikoma

This might actually get me to buy a C8. If I didn’t already have a list. :_( Why exactly does it need to be long enough for protected cells? Who is going to put a 105c or custom DD driver that doesn’t have low-volt warning in the driver slot?

Warning is not protection. If you're using flashlights for house illumination during a blackout in several rooms you may not see a warning, or you may fall asleep with the light on. Low voltage warning is largely meaningless unless you walking around with a flashlight in your hand.

All the open-source firmware versions I know of will turn the light completely off after giving you ample warnings and ramping down to minimum. I think most of the stock 105C firmwares do the same thing. You can test a driver's low voltage behavior by dropping in a used CR123+spacer.

What if there's no firmware?

http://intl-outdoor.com/amc71358-1mode-circuit-board-nanjg-105c-p-643.html

Then don't use that (or any MCU-less) driver. You do know firmware can be edited to give just one 100% mode and still keep the other behind-the-scenes features, right?

Seems like a lot of twisting and turning just to find a reason to justify using protected cells in single cell lights.

Sure, just playing Devil'd advocate. And making conversation, of course.

People don't seem to know this: even the single mode AMC drivers w/o MCU have low voltage indication that kicks in way before a protected cell's protection kicks in. I use a few single mode AMC driver drop-ins as my black out lights, and they behave the same with protected and unprotected cells - when the voltage hits the driver's threshold, the output drops noticeably and the light starts to blink, and it does this for a long time. It's really hard to miss. You would have to leave them unattended for a very long time to not notice.

[Bort]

@leaftye

@Bort

The threads the pill screws into are they anodized or aluminum? Straight aluminum is better for heat transfer

It’s aluminum. They can’t be anodized or the light wouldn’t work. It needs bare metal to conduct electricity.

@djozz

@Omega_17

Looks great but why not using integrated heat transfer instead of a pill, like the new convoy M2 ? Possible to have a XP-G2 version later ?

I like a design with a pill, it is much easier working on them and the thermal transfer is way sufficient for even the hottest rods. I think it is a bit unhandy that the M2 moved to a no-pill design.

I see 20mm board support :) I see a smooth reflector :) Do I see standard C8-pill support? It is still the exterior C8 design that I don’t like, but I guess that is a sort of trademark of the C8.

A pill also makes focusing possible. A no-pill design might accommodate even wider mcpcb’s that move the leads further out, which can be a big deal when reflectors have wide bases, although that doesn’t seem to be an issue with this light.

I have lights with anodized threads where the pill screws in, the Convoy M1 comes to mind

[Gj1 (Gj)]

@rojos

@Gj

@comfychair

@Gj

@comfychair

@Gj

@TheGloriousTachikoma

This might actually get me to buy a C8. If I didn’t already have a list. :_( Why exactly does it need to be long enough for protected cells? Who is going to put a 105c or custom DD driver that doesn’t have low-volt warning in the driver slot?

Warning is not protection. If you're using flashlights for house illumination during a blackout in several rooms you may not see a warning, or you may fall asleep with the light on. Low voltage warning is largely meaningless unless you walking around with a flashlight in your hand.

All the open-source firmware versions I know of will turn the light completely off after giving you ample warnings and ramping down to minimum. I think most of the stock 105C firmwares do the same thing. You can test a driver's low voltage behavior by dropping in a used CR123+spacer.

What if there's no firmware?

http://intl-outdoor.com/amc71358-1mode-circuit-board-nanjg-105c-p-643.html

Then don't use that (or any MCU-less) driver. You do know firmware can be edited to give just one 100% mode and still keep the other behind-the-scenes features, right?

Seems like a lot of twisting and turning just to find a reason to justify using protected cells in single cell lights.

Sure, just playing Devil'd advocate. And making conversation, of course.

People don't seem to know this: even the single mode AMC drivers w/o MCU have low voltage indication that kicks in way before a protected cell's protection kicks in. I use a few single mode AMC driver drop-ins as my black out lights, and they behave the same with protected and unprotected cells - when the voltage hits the driver's threshold, the output drops noticeably and the light starts to blink, and it does this for a long time. It's really hard to miss. You would have to leave them unattended for a very long time to not notice.

Yes, but that's where protection is most valuable, lighting a room during a blackout where a light may be left on and people fall asleep. By the time they wake up the Sun may be up and a dim flashlight left on, forgotten until the cell is completely drained.

[leaftye]

@Bort

@leaftye

@Bort

The threads the pill screws into are they anodized or aluminum? Straight aluminum is better for heat transfer

It's aluminum. They can't be anodized or the light wouldn't work. It needs bare metal to conduct electricity.

I have lights with anodized threads where the pill screws in, the Convoy M1 comes to mind
[/quote]

I stand corrected. The M1 works because the battery tube butts up against the pill with a bare metal to bare metal contact. It looks like this C8 has that design too. From what I'm seeing, it uses the same threads as the battery tube, which is the same as the M1, so they wouldn't be anodized.

[Bort]

@leaftye

@Bort

@leaftye

@Bort

The threads the pill screws into are they anodized or aluminum? Straight aluminum is better for heat transfer

It’s aluminum. They can’t be anodized or the light wouldn’t work. It needs bare metal to conduct electricity.

I have lights with anodized threads where the pill screws in, the Convoy M1 comes to mind

I stand corrected. The M1 works because the battery tube butts up against the pill with a bare metal to bare metal contact. It looks like this C8 has that design too. From what I’m seeing, it uses the same threads as the battery tube, which is the same as the M1, so they wouldn’t be anodized.

[/quote]

me confused, if its the same as the M1 then it would be anodized

[leaftye]

@Bort

me confused, if its the same as the M1 then it would be anodized

[/quote]

[/quote]

No, I'm saying the threads are shared by pill and battery tube, that's all. It would be very difficult only to anodize part of the threads, so since what we can see that part of the threads are not anodized, it's very likely that none of it is anodized.

[Bort]

@leaftye

@Bort

me confused, if its the same as the M1 then it would be anodized

No, I’m saying the threads are shared by pill and battery tube, that’s all. It would be very difficult only to anodize part of the threads, so since what we can see that part of the threads are not anodized, it’s very likely that none of it is anodized.

that is news good

[rojos]

@Gj

@rojos

@Gj

@comfychair

Seems like a lot of twisting and turning just to find a reason to justify using protected cells in single cell lights.

Sure, just playing Devil'd advocate. And making conversation, of course.

People don't seem to know this: even the single mode AMC drivers w/o MCU have low voltage indication that kicks in way before a protected cell's protection kicks in. I use a few single mode AMC driver drop-ins as my black out lights, and they behave the same with protected and unprotected cells - when the voltage hits the driver's threshold, the output drops noticeably and the light starts to blink, and it does this for a long time. It's really hard to miss. You would have to leave them unattended for a very long time to not notice.

Yes, but that's where protection is most valuable, lighting a room during a blackout where a light may be left on and people fall asleep. By the time they wake up the Sun may be up and a dim flashlight left on, forgotten until the cell is completely drained.

Lol. Whatever dude.

[comfychair]

Anodizing does not affect heat conduction one way or the other. Black anodized surfaces can have better heat radiation, but radiation, dispersion to the ambient air, only happens on the outside of the light.

[Bort]

@comfychair

Anodizing does not affect heat conduction one way or the other. Black anodized surfaces can have better heat radiation, but radiation, dispersion to the ambient air, only happens on the outside of the light.

yes it does, anodized aluminium has a lower thermal conduction rate then unanodized aluminium

[comfychair]

Source? Is it testing under relevant conditions? Just like there's clearly major differences in copper/aluminum/brass when it comes to thermal conductivity, none of those differences ever seem to show up as even measurable, much less significant, in a flashlight.

[Bort]

@comfychair

Source? Is it testing under relevant conditions? Just like there’s clearly major differences in copper/aluminum/brass when it comes to thermal conductivity, none of those differences ever seem to show up as even measurable, much less significant, in a flashlight.

i don’t have the thread handy, but i remember it being posted, the anodized aluminum had a conductivity of less then half what aluminum does, try your google fu

[downlinx]

I think i am going to wait for the XP-L version

[Hikelite]

@Bort

@comfychair

Source? Is it testing under relevant conditions? Just like there's clearly major differences in copper/aluminum/brass when it comes to thermal conductivity, none of those differences ever seem to show up as even measurable, much less significant, in a flashlight.

i don’t have the thread handy, but i remember it being posted, the anodized aluminum had a conductivity of less then half what aluminum does, try your google fu

I used to care much about thermal conductivity ratings, until saw reality is different. Remember the "OMG, ENIG which is 0.003mm thick has a lower thermal conductivity rating than pure copper is ripping everything", then you saw the test showing at 5A basically zero effect, which makes perfect sense.

Now anodizing is thin, but it differs and will matter how the surface was finished before anodizing, but we are talking about again "thermal ratings" and for something that is 0.04mm (40microns). Yes quite thick for a coating, but is it at least 1mm? No.

[Bort]

@Hikelite

@Bort

@comfychair

Source? Is it testing under relevant conditions? Just like there’s clearly major differences in copper/aluminum/brass when it comes to thermal conductivity, none of those differences ever seem to show up as even measurable, much less significant, in a flashlight.

i don’t have the thread handy, but i remember it being posted, the anodized aluminum had a conductivity of less then half what aluminum does, try your google fu

I used to care much about thermal conductivity ratings, until saw reality is different. Remember the “OMG, ENIG which is 0.003mm thick has a lower thermal conductivity rating than pure copper is ripping everything”, then you saw the test showing at 5A basically zero effect, which makes perfect sense.

Now anodizing is thin, but it differs and will matter how the surface was finished before anodizing, but we are talking about again “thermal ratings” and for something that is 0.04mm (40microns). Yes quite thick for a coating, but is it at least 1mm? No.

I’m assuming the dielectric layer between the LED and the mcpcb is also very thin, but testing shows sinkpads/noctigons ahve much better performance then regular mcpcbs.

You might be correct and the extra surface area of a flashlight head interface means there is not much difference in heat transfer rates, but i would not accept that without testing.

[FmC]

@Bort

I’m assuming the dielectric layer between the LED and the mcpcb is also very thin, but testing shows sinkpads/noctigons ahve much better performance then regular mcpcbs.

This is the one place where it really matters, at the source of the heat, confined to a really small surface area.

[Bort]

@FmC

@Bort

I’m assuming the dielectric layer between the LED and the mcpcb is also very thin, but testing shows sinkpads/noctigons ahve much better performance then regular mcpcbs.

This is the one place where it really matters, at the source of the heat, confined to a really small surface area.

My point is you can argue anything away, thats why i want data

[Chloe]

Nice photographs! Usually I am not a fan of black subject on black background but these pics are inspiring.

[Hikelite]

@Bort

I’m assuming the dielectric layer between the LED and the mcpcb is also very thin, but testing shows sinkpads/noctigons ahve much better performance then regular mcpcbs.

Correct.

That layer has a rating of 0.8W/m.K to1W/m.K based on the Chinese ratings and even western companies ratings, there are like 2W/m.k but those are for sure not used in the regular boards. These layers have a thickness of 76microns to 150microns, even 229microns.

Anodizing is actually a dielectric layer.