…and how about those crazy people who demand 1000 Lumens or more from a 18650 cigar…?? :innocent:
I’m powder coating so people can have some nice coloured lights there’s not much profit in it for me, the profit is in building full lights. (Even then not much)
Doing a run of fluorescent lights for BLF is at the minimum cost I can get it for host/powder/equipment/shipping. So for £16-20 it’s not worth my time. But I was willing to sacrifice that.
So It’s an insult that you say “Grossly inflated asking price”
(£7/8 for the host, £3.95 shipping UK - £8.20 International, Powder, Consumables, acid to strip anodising)
That’s £16.20 to get it shipped internationally, before you even start, leaving £3.80 for materials listed above (for £20)
Maybe the USA is different but the UK is one expensive place to do things.
There is still issues running high power drivers in non coated small lights, 6A with an XPLHI etc. In a S2+ there’s still a chance of overheating. But people choose to ignore the risks to have a powerful light because most of the time it’s perfectly fine.
Last night I took a powder coated S2+ I had (only running 1.4A) and ran it with a Panasonic 3400mAh for 45 minutes on a table top in a 22C Temperature room, the cell was warm when I took it out. As expected, but no way near hot.
The light was hot but not uncomfortably so.
(I don’t advise doing this, but it had to be tested)
I say 2-3A because that is what I would run it at. But I see that may be high. Maybe I should drop that to 1A or below as the max operating Amps.
But Obviously you think people won’t be sensible and avoid running for long periods or at stupid temperatures. So the offers off the table
No more powder coating
James
I don’t know about anyone else here, but I tend to treat all modes over ~300 lm as turbo or burst modes (or, in small lights, all modes over ~30 lm). About the only thing I use three digits worth of lumens for (for longer than a minute or two) is biking, and I generally set that on a 200-lm mode with 2000-lm stutter pulses.
But I really enjoy having super-bright turbo/burst modes. 
An upshot of this (aside from the obvious ones of safety and long runtime) is that it rarely matters what material the lights are made of, since they’re typically running well below the power levels where heat is an issue. But when I give lights to other people, it’s generally only items which don’t have a self-destruct feature.
I don’t know if I want a bright yellow host, considering I still have a blue and a green I haven’t built, but it is at least compatible with how I use lights. It could be fun.
what does it mean exactly powder coated ?
Wow, I feel bad for 3tronics. They offer something unique, and the safety patrol comes out of the woodwork. Meanwhile, 5000lm pocket rockets get ooohs and ahhhs, for the 5 seconds they are on.
Frankly, I’d rather know the cute powder-coated light I just got can potentially turn into a road-flare in my hand if I leave it on too long, than be surprised at a most inopportune moment.
With all safety stuff considered (I think that flashpilot is over-protective of your customers, this is even sold as a host so it requires a flashlight hobbyist with knowledge to even make it into an actual flashlight, I’d reckon that the responsability of making a hotrod with xxx-fire battery and giving it to a layman is on the flashlight builder, not 3tronic’s), I’d still see the attraction of the fluorescent yellow S2+, and certainly not all my lights are hotrods!
James, may you reconsider making a batch of fluorescent S2+ lights after all, then I’m interested to buy one!
That’s not entirely fair though.
3tronics clearly understimated the thermal isolating properties of powder coating (and so did i b.t.w.).
And that’s why 3tronics shouldn’t be discouraged by the argument between him and ‘the safety patrol’.
I would like to have a screaming yellow host, and i’m not gonna put a quad on a FET DD in it.
:+1: that’s what Blf is about to me. Resposible madness!
Yes I would be interested in a fluorescent yellow powder coated Convoy C8 host.
I think you are doing a great job. And it will be an absolute stunner.
It is OK with me if someone is pointing out that there are some thermal drawbacks.
As far as I am concerned he (or she) cannot warn enough that these exist, there always will be new members on BLF.
But ultimately I am responsible for my own actions. Like walking around with a pocket rocket if I want to. Or two.
But I will NOT hand them out to friends or family. Not until I have talked to them about Li-Ion 1-0-1, and 1-0-2 and 1-0-3.
And when I think they say ja-ja, but are not really listening to what I say, they get a nice light that runs on alkalines.
Now what can happen if the coating prevents the light to get rid of the build up heat? You will fry the LED or the driver.
You will not burn yourself, because the heat can’t come out (presumably). And you can always use protected batteries.
PS I always think long and hard before I say something very stupid.
I will think about what I will do next. But please don’t get your hopes up.
There were no underestimations, I am aware that the powder coat insulates the light slightly, that is the whole reason I said do not run over 2/3A (I personally run mine at 3A) but as pointed out that some people won’t be sensible so I dropped the recommendation to below 1A
The discharge temperature for most li-ion batteries is –20C to 60C (–4F to 140F)
As long as the battery doesn’t get hotter than 60C/140F you will have no problems
Take a look at HKJ’s battery tests. A Sony VTC5 discharging at 20A hits 45C/113F
Obviously take into account that the battery is contained in the light so the temperature will be higher, but also take into account that you won’t be running the light at 20A
I thought BLF was about pushing the limits and that is why we run leds rated at 3A at double that. And that’s why I make lights that push the max possible.
But this is also the reason I don’t build high power lights for people unless they specifically request something and know what they are doing.
Running a XML2 at 6A in a S2+ is impressive, but gets very hot and again, can be a safety issue. The LED overheating isn’t really a safety issue, it will just burn out, however a li-ion battery overheating is a safety issue. This will happen if the light is powder coated or not.
There’s just as much chance of a XML2 running at 6A blowing up, than a XML2 running at 3A in a powder coated light.
I could easily leave bare aluminium near the pill so there is an ‘open heatsink’ but it would ruin the look of the light.
Also, take a look at some of the other popular light coatings (cera/dura etc.) I think you’ll find that It is just as bad as it contains a lot of polymer. Powder coat just doesn’t have the ceramic element.
I was going to do a custom run for BLF that I would have to put a lot of time and money into (£30 for powder, 20 hosts £160, consumables needed for the process £20) the only reason I could do them at this price was doing 20 at once limiting the time for setup etc.
To the ‘safety patrol’ you’ve not ruined anything for me, I wasn’t making a profit, and I’ll still make myself a flourescent light, you’ve just ruined it for everyone else who wanted something a bit different.
I made one of these for myself, it runs on CR123a, perfect little backup/first aid kit light, looks pretty cool! The hi-viz looks awesome and the contrast with the black clip looks good
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Nice, man, that looks like a professional road worker’s or miner’s tool.
Great man! If they ever become available I’d totally go for the shorty!
I can see both sides of this debate, and would want to throw in a few points to hopefully let both sides see the other guy’s point of view.
• There’s nothing inherently wrong with powder-coating a light. It bottles up heat just as much as, say, a hollow-pill. In the latter case, the LED fries. In the former case, the heat stays within the light completely, possibly also cooking the Li cell.
• Keep heat down to manageable levels, and you should be safe.
• Lots of lights have drivers that can supply stoopit-high currents (DD FETs with braid-bypassed springs, etc.), and hopefully no one turns one into an accidental pipebomb. Yet the drivers, braid, etc., are still sold.
• Here in the States, and I imagine other places, if you sell too-hot coffee and someone’s stoopit enough to spill it into his/her crotch, you can be sued out the wazoo. Never mind warnings like “THIS COFFEE IS HOT!!!111oneoneone”, you will get sued. Anyone selling pocket-rocket lights or sub-ohm vaping coils is a lawsuit-recipient just waiting to happen.
• Yes, people are stooopit. Tell them not to stick a screwdriver in their eye, and they’ll go and do just that… and then sue you.
• Jurors are also stoopit, too stoopit to get out of jury-duty, so yes, they’ll reach into the Deep Pockets of the defendant and reward the dope who stuck the screwdriver in his eye.
• Selling something that can go boom, or burst into flames, or send shards of glass into your crotchal area, is almost like painting a bullseye on your back as far as Lawsuit Lotto goes. Lots of people are wise enough to not do that.
Suggestions? Sell the powdered hosts, include as many warnings as possible as far as reduced heat transfer, maybe include a throwaway 350mA or 700mA driver, and let the recipient do whatever he wants later, by modding it to throw 3A or 5A or whatever. The idea is to warn, warn, warn, and let the modder have to go out of his way to do with it what he wishes. Even specify that any warranty is voided by using a different driver. Warn about potential death and dismemberment. Whatever it takes, to try to keep yourself off the hook.
And yeah, I don’t “make” lights for people anymore, because just the parts cost alone puts it near or over what you can get off-the-rack from XinTD or Thorfire or Convoy. Ain’t worth the grief, especially when someone pokes around and checks prices, and you end up on the defensive. That’s why I just point inquirers to X/T/C and let them have at it.
Okay, so now go to opposite corners and come out when the bell rings…
Being European, I’m obviously not impressed by the extreme american claim culture, but perhaps 3tronics should indeed go as far as selling it as a low powered flashlight or just not sell these hosts at all to people from the States?
It still sounds extremely puzzling to me that Convoy hosts that can be hotrodded to death by the buyer are sold no problem, and if you do a paint job that makes that 1 amp easier it makes the seller of the host break the law?
Or are there american folks who believe that there will be no problem for 3tronics selling these hosts to the States?
This is why it’s not going to happen, It’s not worth the hassle for me, I’m getting nothing out of this apart from getting people some nice unique lights that wouldn’t be available anywhere else.
It’s definitely been blown way out of proportion. 1 comment was made and there’s talk of lights blowing up.
As I said, I ran a powder coated light at 1.4A for 45 minutes straight in a warm room, no problems, no immense heat, nothing. When I get a chance I’ll try a 2A driver then a 3A driver. (Running for a long period that is)
The battery I used was good for 60C (most li-ion the same) and without measuring I’d say it was at 25C after 45 minutes at 1.4A if that’s doubled for 2.8A to 50C it’s still under safe temps
It’s perfectly safe running a low powered driver in a powder coated light (tested so far up to 1.4A running for 45 mins)
I know for sure that even if you leave it on for 45 minutes straight (which you won’t/shouldn’t) , you will be fine. Because I have done it safely maintaining a low temperature to prove it.
But this is not something I will be offering, it’s just not worth the hassle sorry!
I Agree, we don’t really have a claim culture over here, it can be abused by some, but generally if you’re an idiot it’s your own fault.
And djozz is right, It puzzles me that we are running 6A+ hotrods (astrolux S41 for example) with no problems,
A paint job later (albeit one that doesn’t help with thermal management) on a low powered S2+ and its started a massive safety debate? I admit that 3A may be a little high for some, but personally I have had no problems running at 3A for 10 mins at a time…