TK's Emisar D4 review

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will34
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KG_Tuning wrote:
Really can’t fault the 2 D4 lights I have, I love the UI. I know it auto ramps down when it gets hot but shouldn’t it auto ramp back up when it starts to cool?

Mine has the V2 FW and doesn’t ramp back up when cool, it just steps all the way down to about 200 lumens and stays there. Tried submerging it in water and nothing happens even after being completely cool to touch. I wish there was a way to make the temperature regulation dumb, stepping down to a specific level when it reaches the temperature limit.

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For an idea what to expect, this shows how the same algorithm behaves on another light… It goes through a few phases:

  • First I turned it on at turbo. I adjusted the position of the light a bit at first, which made the graph look odd at the beginning.
  • After the step-down, I let it sit untouched for a while with a fan blowing at it.
  • Then I took the fan away, and it stepped down more.
  • I left it alone for a bit, and it stayed pretty stable.
  • Then I touched ice to the outside of the light. It ramped up slowly.
  • I removed the ice. It stayed stable for a bit, resting in a pool of its own cold water.
  • After the water heated up, it stepped down once and was stable for a while.
  • I blew the puddle of water away from the light so it would be dry again.
  • It stepped down again, to about the same level it did before without the fan.
  • Eventually I turned it off and ended the test.

The brightness depends very much on the light’s environment and its configured temperature limit.

The step-up uses the smallest steps available, so it can be hard to see. It’s much easier to measure with a lux meter or an app like zak.wilson’s “Ceilingbounce”.

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ToyKeeper wrote:
It does ramp back up when it’s cooling off. However, it only goes up one small step at a time, and it tries to maintain a constant temperature. Here is a runtime graph of it:

If the stable level is too low, set the temperature limit higher.

Or if you want to see the effect more clearly, let it step down and then hold a block of ice on the heat sink fins (or run it under cold water). It’ll go up, but slowly.

With my newer stuff, it can step back up faster but I haven’t tested yet to make sure it won’t oscillate. Oscillating is annoying.

Good to know, I’ve set my 1A higher, blinked 6 times after I set it?

The room temp was very cold when I tested the 1A at 5,400 lumens the next night was warmer and I couldn’t get past 4,800
I got a consistent 4,000 for the 219c with Sony VTCA5 and 3,800 with VTC6, which is on par with reviews. The 1A is far more erratic, even the same batteries yielded different readings.

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hank
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> UI every month

I’m starting to wish the drivers had an interface for a micro-memory card to accept the updates.
Because this stuff just keeps getting better.

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Firmware, that’s the ticket… flashlights with firmware! Smile

Simply plug in the micro USB and reflash the firmware directly from the computer, like a DSLR. Big Smile

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DB Custom wrote:
Firmware, that’s the ticket… flashlights with firmware! Smile

Simply plug in the micro USB and reflash the firmware directly from the computer, like a DSLR. Big Smile


Precisely mu thoughts from today…include USB type C plug. Use it to:
  • reflash the chip
  • with a helper app, provide GUI configuration
  • charge the battery
  • turn the light to a powerbank

As to predictability, the light has better memory than I do. I often avoid turning it on with a single click and loosen the head before that, just in case it’s on turbo.
Also, I never know what direction will the ramping go.

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Agro wrote:

include USB type C plug. Use it to:
  • reflash the chip
  • with a helper app, provide GUI configuration

That requires a much more capable MCU than we’ve been using for flashlights. An atmega chip can do it though.

There was an arduino-based light a few years ago, but it was expensive and kind of meh. There was also one with bluetooth for configuration, but it had physical design problems and the concept was never developed very far. Some recent driver designs use vias for programming pins so it can be reflashed acupuncture style without removing the driver, and requires no host modifications. That might be an idea worth exploring further.

Agro wrote:
I never know what direction will the ramping go.

That’s why I used different ramp controls in newer UIs. Hold to ramp up, click then hold to ramp down.

I made a reversing one about 3 years ago, but the way it often went the wrong direction always bugged me. So I had been meaning to change it, but I didn’t really touch e-switch code again until recently.

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Can you buy tail caps separate? I’d like to mod one to fit on my keychain.

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Just changed replaced my 3D Xp-g2 emiters with 5D’s. Man this tint is nice! Perfect light now.

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Can someone explain me, what makes XP-L version is as much as $ 18 more expensive?

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Has anyone compiled the complete UI documentation anywhere?
(including the tips’n‘tricks posted hereabouts in responses)?

Got my light from RMM, but no docs with it.

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pietros, the XP-L version costs more because XP-L emitters cost more. It’s not about the perceived value, it’s about the materials cost.

hank, the most complete documentation I’m aware of is … this thread. Sorry. Sad

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The XP-L HI is $3-4 more per each than Nichia 219C or XP-G2 emitters. Multiply that by 4, select desired tint bins and there ya go. The domed XP-L HD won’t fit under the Carclo quad optics.

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Quote:
the most complete documentation I’m aware of is … this thread. Sorry.

Surely someone here aspires to a career in editing documentation?

(P.S. — is there a way to download an entire thread without pagination, as a long text file? Then deleting everything not part of the desired end product becomes fairly easy to do)

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hank wrote:
Quote:
the most complete documentation I’m aware of is … this thread. Sorry.

Surely someone here aspires to a career in editing documentation?

(P.S. — is there a way to download an entire thread without pagination, as a long text file? Then deleting everything not part of the desired end product becomes fairly easy to do)


It seems to me most everything is in the D4 UI V2 diagram. The only trick i heard of is to unscrew the tail cap to reset the memory to 100% 7135 level. How to properly set the step down temperature could use some additional explanations too. Is there much else?
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$7@

hank
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> unscrew the tailcap to reset the memory

Ah, that was a gotcha! I’ve been unscrewing the tailcap to lock out the button, and suddenly was surprised to find the light won’t get more than slightly brighter, ramping went away.
Must be I’m falling into that memory setting.

Thanks for the reminder where to find the printed GUI chart.

Another please-remind-me — this driver has discharge protection so I can use unprotected cells, right?

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hank wrote:
Surely someone here aspires to a career in editing documentation?

someone not named hank?

patmurris wrote:
It seems to me most everything is in the D4 UI V2 diagram. The only trick i heard of is to unscrew the tail cap to reset the memory to 100% 7135 level. How to properly set the step down temperature could use some additional explanations too. Is there much else?

I agree..

Here is a start.. who is going next?:-)

Feature index:

Basic operation
http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1161675#comment-1161675

ToyKeeper wrote:

Regulated mode
100% 7135 mode (also double blink indicator)

joechina wrote:
If you want a dedicated brightness you can untwist and twist the tailcap to get 100% of the 7135. Which gets you 138 lm (319c), 161 lm (XP-G2) or 145 lm (XP-L Hi).

Setting and reading out Thermal Config

ToyKeeper wrote:
ledalex wrote:
I’ve noticed it also blinks at the highest and lowest brightness levels.

Yes, people requested that it blink at both ends in addition to the point where the power channel changes.

http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1171299#comment-1171299

ToyKeeper wrote:
saypat wrote:
help please. When I do the thermal configuration, my light blinks 7 times. Is that 70 Celsius? If so , that is 158 Farenheight. What does that mean exactly please? Does that mean my light won’t step down until it becomes very, very , hot? If so, how do I get it back to the other end of the spectrum? Thanks anyone in the know.

Yes, that’s probably 70. The zero digit should be a very short blink.

To set the thermal limit, turn the light off. Then click ten or more times and, without missing a beat, press and hold the button. Keep holding until the light feels hot, then let go.

While you’re holding it, it should blink out a number, then “buzz” for a few seconds, then go to turbo. Then it should stay at turbo until you let go. After you release the button, it should blink out a new number representing the new temperature ceiling value.

Future Features not yet in the official UI version
ability to set high and low endpoints for ramping

Nominations for Most underused feature
Thermal Configuration Smile

hank wrote:
I can use unprotected cells, right?

yes
http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1171505#comment-1171505
ToyKeeper wrote:
FlyingJ wrote:
?
I was running my light on turbo this morning and noticed that instead of gradually stepping down as normal, it blinked three times then stepped down quite a bit. I check battery V and it was reading 3.3 on an 18650GA.

Does anyone know what that means?

It means the voltage went below 3.0 V, so it triggered low-voltage protection.

High-capacity cells like the GA tend to have more voltage sag under high load, so they won’t last long on turbo before LVP kicks in. IIRC it’s better at that than a NCR18650A or NCR18650B, but not as good as a 30Q or VTC5/6.

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We need a love child from the D4 and

aka the Lux-RC

Products page

Maybe then we can hold on to this hot rod?

(“It’s good that most people can’t remember their previous lives. Otherwise
things would be a lot more complicated than they already are.”
Ajaan Lee Dhammadharo)

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Ronin42 wrote:
We need a love child from the D4 and

aka the Lux-RC

Products page

Maybe then we can hold on to this hot rod?

Active cooling, now we’re talking!

Where can I find pricing info?

Something tells me it’s out of my league though…

Can we hope Hank will pick up some ideas? (the active cooling part)

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pietros wrote:
http://intl-outdoor.com/noctigon-4xp-mcpcb-nichia-nvsw219ct-r8000-d260-p...
http://intl-outdoor.com/noctigon-4xp-mcpcb-cree-xpl-hi-v2-3a-p-917.html

It’s only $ 7 different.

Not hating, just stating

If it makes you unhappy then vote with your wallet and don’t buy it. Pretty simple solution. Or take it up with Hank. By posting that here you’re discussing it with people not in the production loop. Don’t want to pay the extra $18? Then don’t.

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It’s worth the extra $18 for 15 seconds more Turbo time!

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Thermal Stepping Down question and separate ramping question.

Just got my Gray XP-G2 D4. Long story short, steps down and continues to step down from pretty low levels, even from cold, rested start. Ramped up to what I think to be about 600 lumens or so (comparing it to what’s supposed to be about 600 on my ZL SC62w), a very usable level IMHO. Light doesn’t get hot to the touch at all….but starts stepping down pretty quickly…and keeps stepping down about every 5-7 seconds until it gets in the 150 lumen range….NEVER even warm to the touch IMHO. I think I read that the regulation is of course basing it’s feedback on internal temps and so my “feel” on the outside isn’t directly proportional to the “need for stepping down”….but this seems a bit aggressive. Basically only giving about 1 minute or so of 600-800 lumen light.
The questions: Does this sound normal? Is there a way to adjust this to give longer mid lumen level or is that not safe?

Separate ramping question:

When I’m ramping up from off, there are 2 “flickers” in the process….like a quick blink…one at about 1/3 the way up and then one right before the brightest setting. When ramping down, only one “flicker” nearer the bottom end.
Is this normal?

Couldn’t find anything in the thread referencing it….so with these 2 behaviors I’m wondering if I may have a gimpy light.

These behaviors are with a freshly charged and rested Sanyo 18650 GA at 4.1V and then a Samsung 30Q at about 3.9V.

Thanks for any help!

John 1:5 "The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."

hank
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Quote:
Can you buy tail caps separate? I’d like to mod one to fit on my keychain.

I haven’t yet tried Lego-ing all my other tailcaps onto this tube.
But I’m hoping one of them will fit the threads/depth/connection and be suitable to attach a split ring to connect a GITD keyfob and “lobster clip”

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cdjaney wrote:
Thermal Stepping Down … Is there a way to adjust this …?

When I’m ramping up from off, there are 2 “flickers” in the process…

Couldn’t find anything in the thread referencing it…

Those things are both answered on the first page of this thread, in posts #1 and #2. Both were also answered a few comments ago, in jon_slider’s comment #1790.

From off, click 10+ times and hold until hot.

The flickers are there because people requested it. It can’t be turned off in this version, but the code is available if you want to change it.

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I pushed an update of RampingIOS.c to trunk. It adds support for higher-voltage battery configurations, like 2S/3S/4S. That part of the code wasn’t really functional before.

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In Thermal reg mode, when holding in the button to increase its set point,,, is all thermal regulation bypassed while holding in button..? Are any other protection circuits bypassed while in this mode..?

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In thermal calibration mode, no thermal regulation is attempted.

LVP only happens when the button isn’t being held.

So, while calibrating, the “safeties” are off. However, it will generally get too hot to hold, and if you let go it shuts off.

I know some people love to be clever and contrary, but if you wear heat insulation gloves in calibration mode, to hold the button down longer than normal pain tolerances would allow, any resulting problems are your own **** fault. Silly

(same story if you wrap the thing in a blanket and activate turbo mode… that’s just asking for trouble)

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ToyKeeper wrote:
In thermal calibration mode, no thermal regulation is attempted.

LVP only happens when the button isn’t being held.

So, while calibrating, the “safeties” are off. However, it will generally get too hot to hold, and if you let go it shuts off.

I know some people love to be clever and contrary, but if you wear heat insulation gloves in calibration mode, to hold the button down longer than normal pain tolerances would allow, any resulting problems are your own **** fault. Silly

(same story if you wrap the thing in a blanket and activate turbo mode… that’s just asking for trouble)

Any blip, blink, flash,,,? to denote the max setting of 70°c has been reached so no further ‘holding in button is needed in a no protection mode. Or do you mean one cant even hold the light to even get to the 70°c max set point…?

Not trying to be contrary, just trying to give feedback on your excellent D4 UI, Let me know if its not what you want and I’ll stop.

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