Where to buy good quality 16340 batteries for On The Road M3 Flashlight???

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stephenk
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I get my batteries from Aussie eBay seller supersports600. A big more expensive than from China options, but the 3 day delivery and customer service is worth it! He is involved with Keeppower so knows his stuff!
http://stores.ebay.com.au/supersports600

ssschen
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aL1 wrote:

16340 KeepPower 700mAh ICR16340 Protected Button Top


 


 

Max continuous discharge current is only listed as 2A though, which is too low for my liking. That said, I still have no idea what max discharge current is on the Lumintop 650mAH batteries I bought. Can’t seem to find any info in relation to this on my internet search.

Max. Continuous Discharging Current: 2C

ssschen
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stephenk wrote:
I get my batteries from Aussie eBay seller supersports600. A big more expensive than from China options, but the 3 day delivery and customer service is worth it! He is involved with Keeppower so knows his stuff! http://stores.ebay.com.au/supersports600

Thanks for this info. I have saved him on my ebay profile, always good to have another reliable source of battery supplier. Big Smile

Jerommel
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I contacted Neal about the On The Road 16340 battery.
He was surprised when i said they were one of the best (high capacity and current), ad asked for some more test results.
So i’m looking for test results, can’t remember where i saw reviews of that battery.
Maybe it was a Youtube review, i’ll have a look in my ‘watch history’.
But i think it would be great if Neal could source those cells (either with or without the OTR wrapper).
Maybe you guys can help finding test results.

MascaratumB
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I recall seeing something on David Sunshine channel, in his review of the OTR M3! Can’t be sure (and can’t check now as I’m not on the computer)!

Jerommel
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MascaratumB wrote:
I recall seeing something on David Sunshine channel, in his review of the OTR M3! Can’t be sure (and can’t check now as I’m not on the computer)!

Yeah, that’s where i got the high capacity measurements from.
He says it’s 799 mAh.
But another (more recent) review i just watched says it’s 600mAh.
So now i’m not so sure anymore… Facepalm
Jerommel
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By the way, i got 4x “PKcell” 16340 in yesterday, they seem to hold up fairly well in the M3.
I will try to do some tests later.

MascaratumB
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These are 2 reviews that analyse the battery. The first one is about the OTR U16, and the second about the M3.
Maybe it was here you’ve seen it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlfTWDxI3uo&t
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUtK2xI1IVs&t

Also, a quick insight on the battery’s voltage, in their branded charger: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/47124 .
And this post from The Miller about the capacity: http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1029675#comment-1029675 .

Last week I sent PM to Neal asking about the same thing, about if he sells good 16340’s!

To not overload him with PMs and all that stuff, if you are in contact with him, can you take care of this and them return with some answers, please?

I’d be interested to get some good 16340s and of the OTR is one of the best, and he can arrange some, let’s do it!

Jerommel wrote:
By the way, i got 4x “PKcell” 16340 in yesterday, they seem to hold up fairly well in the M3. I will try to do some tests later.

Yes, please tell something about those too!
I ordered a 16340 flashlight (Jaxmnve M3, on AliExpress) and wanna buy some cells. But can’t be sure if the PKCell are good or if I should try the Trustfire IMR. So, if you have some insight on those, let us know please Wink

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I still use a few aw 16340’s (red ones) not the best but working fine in all of my highish drain 16340 lights.

ssschen
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I received the two Lumintop 16340 batteries purchased from AliExpress as well a couple of days ago. Will pop them in my Liitokala Lii-500 charger to check capacity.

ssschen
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Lumintop 16340 batteries capacity: 676mAh & 686mAh.

Pete7874
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That’s great.

When you pop them into your M3, do you visually see a difference in light output between high and turbo?

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Okay, so i did a NOR test on my Lii-500 with the 4 PKcells.
They’re all around 700mAh, may improve a little because they were brand new.
The internal resistance guestimate of the Lii-500 are inconsistent wild guesses, so it doesn’t mean too much, but it seems these PKcells are a little better in that regard than Sanyo 14500.
I think these PKcells are similar in performance to their 14500 cells.

My M3 draws 2.28 A on ‘turbo’ (according to my UNI-T clamp meter) with a freshly charged PKcell,
with a ‘half full’ cell (3.6 Volts without load) it’s 2.24 A.
with a 3.5 Volts (without load) cell it’s 2.05 A on the clamp meter.

So this is where it apparently starts to suffer from the sag too much. Sad

I will calculate the internal resistance now, i’ll get back to you with that.

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Just remembered the Windyfire brand market its cells by themselves: http://www.windyfire.com/windyfire-imr-16340-600mah-3a-button-2pcs.html

http://www.windyfire.com/windyfire-imr-16340-600mah-37v-3a.html -> In the past you had to ask for a cheap shipping quote. They may still do it for those of you outside of the countries listed in the above link.

 

Cheers 

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MascaratumB
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And the plot thickens Big Smile

Thanks for the test Jerommel and the heads up on their site Barkuti!

Let’s see if the PkCell and the Lumintop worth a try. It they are nice, why not?
If they are not, Windyfire may be an option…or the Trustfire IMR…or the AWT IMR…or the On The Road Facepalm Facepalm

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Okay, i calculated the internal resistance of one of my PKcells, i think i did it right.

The Voltage of the cell was 3.5 V without load.
I put on a load with a 1.35 Ω resistor, giving a Voltage of 3.2 Volts over the resistor, I=U:R so the current was 3.2 V : 1.35 Ω = 2.37 A
Now i can calculate the total resistance. R=U:I so R = 3.5 V : 2.37 A = 1.47 Ω
Subtract the 1.35 Ω from that, so 1.47 – 1.35 = 0.12 Ohm or 120mΩ

When I (current) is 2.3 A (M3 turbo mode) P (power) wasted as heat in the battery is P=I²×R —> I² = 5.29 —> 5.29 × 0.12 Ω = 0.63 Watt heating up the battery, which is nothing to worry about i.m.o.

Anyway, with Ri=120mΩ this is not a high drain cell at all…

PS: The numbers could be off by 15% (or something) due to my equipment.

ssschen
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Pete7874 wrote:
That’s great.

When you pop them into your M3, do you visually see a difference in light output between high and turbo?

Unfortunately the batteries got to me first from AliExpress, even though I ordered the OTR M3 from GearBest at least a good few days before the batteries. Hopefully the M3 will turn up next week. Wink

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Jerommel wrote:
Okay, i calculated the internal resistance of one of my PKcells, i think i did it right.

The Voltage of the cell was 3.5 V without load.
I put on a load with a 1.35 Ω resistor, giving a Voltage of 3.2 Volts over the resistor, I=U:R so the current was 3.2 V : 1.35 Ω = 2.37 A
Now i can calculate the total resistance. R=U:I so R = 3.5 V : 2.37 A = 1.47 Ω
Subtract the 1.35 Ω from that, so 1.47 – 1.35 = 0.12 Ohm or 120mΩ

When I (current) is 2.3 A (M3 turbo mode) P (power) wasted as heat in the battery is P=I²×R —> I² = 5.29 —> 5.29 × 0.12 Ω = 0.63 Watt heating up the battery, which is nothing to worry about i.m.o.

Anyway, with Ri=120mΩ this is not a high drain cell at all

PS: The numbers could be off by 15% (or something) due to my equipment.

I know nothing about numbers ( Facepalm ) but from your measurements it seems that for lights like the OTR M3, or an Olight S1R, it wouldn’t be a good battery mainly specially to use the brightest levels, right?

Also, theoretically, it would perform worst than – examples – the AWT IMR , the Windyfire IMR, and the Trustfire IMR, (all tested by HKJ), am I correct?

Thanks again for your work and results on this Wink

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MascaratumB wrote:
Jerommel wrote:
Okay, i calculated the internal resistance of one of my PKcells, i think i did it right.

The Voltage of the cell was 3.5 V without load.
I put on a load with a 1.35 Ω resistor, giving a Voltage of 3.2 Volts over the resistor, I=U:R so the current was 3.2 V : 1.35 Ω = 2.37 A
Now i can calculate the total resistance. R=U:I so R = 3.5 V : 2.37 A = 1.47 Ω
Subtract the 1.35 Ω from that, so 1.47 – 1.35 = 0.12 Ohm or 120mΩ

When I (current) is 2.3 A (M3 turbo mode) P (power) wasted as heat in the battery is P=I²×R —> I² = 5.29 —> 5.29 × 0.12 Ω = 0.63 Watt heating up the battery, which is nothing to worry about i.m.o.

Anyway, with Ri=120mΩ this is not a high drain cell at all

PS: The numbers could be off by 15% (or something) due to my equipment.

I know nothing about numbers ( Facepalm ) but from your measurements it seems that for lights like the OTR M3, or an Olight S1R, it wouldn’t be a good battery mainly specially to use the brightest levels, right?

It will be okay up to 1.5 Amperes or something.
With a linear driver that’s approximately 6 Watts, which is usually around 650 Lumen from an XM-L2 (correct me if i’m wrong, anybody)
Quote:

Also, theoretically, it would perform worst than – examples – the AWT IMR , the Windyfire IMR, and the Trustfire IMR, (all tested by HKJ), am I correct?

Yes, probably.
Quote:

Thanks again for your work and results on this Wink

I had to know myself too. Smile
I guess we should wait for a next generation 16340, similar to the Aspire 18350.
Probably just a matter of time.
MascaratumB
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Jerommel wrote:
It will be okay up to 1.5 Amperes or something.
With a linear driver that’s approximately 6 Watts, which is usually around 650 Lumen from an XM-L2 (correct me if i’m wrong, anybody)
[…]
Thanks again for your work and results on this Wink

I had to know myself too. Smile
I guess we should wait for a next generation 16340, similar to the Aspire 18350.
Probably just a matter of time.

Thanks again for the explanation Jerommel! Thumbs Up
If I understood correctly, they will run “well” except in the highest modes (that are above 600lm in the lights I mentioned)!

Hum, getting a “Aspire IMR 16340” would be pretty nice Cool
I like small lights (16340 sized), and I don’t have more because I want to have them with decent batteries and that’s being hard to get (maybe I’m too picky about that, I admit)!

BTW, another confirmation that the OTR battery is nice was made by djozz some time ago, here: http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/980054#comment-980054

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I guess the OTR cell has to be nice when they sell it with a 900 Lumen light.

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I got a comment on my Ri test in another thread:

snakebite wrote:

ir goes up as cell is discharged.

I did not know this, so i will repeat the test at 4.0 Volts and on 3.7 Volts (without load) and see what it does.
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Yes, the IR is supposed to be measured on a fully charged cell.

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Sorry fellows but, after observing lots of li-ion cell discharge curves:

  • When a cell is fully or nearly fully charged and/or nearly discharged the discharge curve slope is higher. Measuring internal resistance when cells are close to full or empty is just wrong.
  • When a cell is discharged it heats up proportionally to the square of the current flow. This usually means the cell's internal resistance diminishes a little bit.
  • In every other aspect, li-ion cells' internal resistance is fairly constant. 

Cheers Smile

 

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Barkuti wrote:
Measuring internal resistance when cells are close to full or empty is just wrong

Hmm… from the owner’s manual of my Opus charger:

Quote:
Only fully charged batteries should be tested for internal resistance

I think that however you decide to test, the key is to be consistent and measure all your cells at the same charge/voltage level so that you have apples to apples comparison.

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I would say it’s best to measure Ri at the average Voltage, which is 3.7 Volts (without load).
This is in the middle of the range the battery is used in most of the times.

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If you test internal resistance to find out the maximum possible output with full batteries in a hotrod light, you should naturally do it with full batteries. On some lipos, the Ri decreases significantly when the battery is discharged and heats up.

Jerommel
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Well, since this thread is more or less about the OTR M3, which (probably) has a linear CC driver with maximum current of 2.3 Amperes on ‘turbo’, it should actually first be established how much voltage it needs to push 2.3 Amperes through the XM-L2.
I’m not even sure how much voltage this particular generation of XM-L2 needs to draw 2.3 Amperes.

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what are the lumen levels and mode sequence of each light:
Jaxmnve M3
OTR M3

Do both lights have built in over discharge protection, (which means you do not need to use protected cells)

Does anyone have beam shots comparing the Cool White and Neutral white?

Since both are low CRI, the choice of Color temperature should be based on whether you plan to use the light when your brain is white balanced to a Cool White environment, or a Neutral white environment.

Neutral white that is Low CRI does NOT improve Color Rendering, because it outputs more Yellow and less Blue than cool white. However Neutral White Low CRI does NOT produce more Red.

since the OP is talking about wanting the most brightness, Imo he should buy Cool White.. (Im not sure which one he ordered after all)

I am very happy with my Keepower IMR Unprotected cells.

But the discharge rate of the cell may not matter IF the M3 modes are Regulated… Are they?

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jon_slider wrote:

Since both are low CRI, the choice of Color temperature should be based on whether you plan to use the light when your brain is white balanced to a Cool White environment, or a Neutral white environment.

Neutral white that is Low CRI does NOT improve Color Rendering, because it outputs more Yellow and less Blue than cool white. However Neutral White Low CRI does NOT produce more Red.

Could be my perception, but I certainly see an improvement in color rendering using warmer tints, also with low cri leds.

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