[Available again! - BLF special edition light] new Sofirn AAA twisty high CRI 5mm LED

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Tixx
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Phlogiston wrote:
I never want magnets on my stuff, it’s too easy to damage things.

Anything from a demagnetised credit card in your pocket to a damaged computer hard disk because you put your light in the wrong place for a moment whilst working inside the computer.

I’m fine with a hole or an internal spring clip for people to add an optional magnet, I just don’t want the light to come with a permanently-attached magnet as standard.

Same here. Optional magnet. I don’t care if there is a slot, but will not use it.

DavidEF
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Tixx wrote:
Phlogiston wrote:
I never want magnets on my stuff, it’s too easy to damage things.

Anything from a demagnetised credit card in your pocket to a damaged computer hard disk because you put your light in the wrong place for a moment whilst working inside the computer.

I’m fine with a hole or an internal spring clip for people to add an optional magnet, I just don’t want the light to come with a permanently-attached magnet as standard.

Same here. Optional magnet. I don’t care if there is a slot, but will not use it.


I would probably use a magnet if it had one, but for a keychain light with only ~8lm output, it’s not a big deal if it doesn’t include one. I like the idea of putting it inside the tail-cap instead of outside. Then, those who don’t want their light to be magnetic can remove the magnet (if it’s clipped in and not glued) and not have a huge hole in the back of their tail-cap where the “missing” magnet would be.

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djozz
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I added a 5mm magnet hole in my drawing. A bit of a mess now but focus on the red area, as you can see, 5mm fits.

huey18
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Phlogiston wrote:

However, a standard parabolic reflector with the LED chip at the focus may not behave as expected with a 5mm LED, because the LED encapsulation is not curved for the light to arrive at right angles to the boundary between the encapsulation material and the air, which is what you need to avoid unwanted refraction.

Instead of having a hemispherical dome centred on the LED chip like a power LED does, a 5mm LED has a cylinder with a hemispherical dome on top. This is liable to bend the light path as it moves from the LED encapsulation to the air, so different parts of the parabolic reflector will see the light appearing to arrive from different points with a range of apparent offsets from the reflector focus. This means it will never form a collimated beam, no matter what you do.

In short, I suspect that the parabolic reflector will produce a fairly horrible beam pattern. I’d still be interested in seeing a picture of the actual result, though, just to make sure Smile

I also suspect that the deep-set position of the E01’s LED in its conical reflector sidesteps the effect of varying light paths by simply discarding all light exiting the sides of the LED encapsulation.

I presume that it would be possible to create a reflector curvature that would compensate for the refractive effect of a 5mm LED’s encapsulation, but making such a bespoke reflector would be astronomically expensive by flashlight standards. It would also be thrown off by variations in the 5mm LED shape from one LED manufacturer to the next.

You can youtube niteize upgrade for mini maglite. It is a 5mm led upgrade kit with a reflector.

Here is one video with the beam shot timestamp.
Nite Ize Upgrade Maglite Mini

The issue is the twisting action will move the led to different focal points in the parabolic reflector. This will cause all sorts of artifacts to show in the beam. Everyone remembers their old maglites and the various focusing beam patterns. I really hate those patterns.

There are a few solutions if Sofirn wants to use a parabolic reflector and address the beam pattern issue:
1. diffuse lens
2. really orange peal reflector
3. smooth reflector with a flat white paint to diffuse.

Noir
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A 5 mm magnet does indeed fit (just). I rechecked the dimensions with the help of a drawing. A 5 x 3 mm magnet should most definitely be strong enough.

Some notes on my drawing:

  • I've been cautious and used 14 mm diameter, if it is actually 14,3 mm all the better.
  • The magnet circle is a touch too far to the left (to the outside).
  • The trit slot is probably a bit too big.
  • The split ring is the same size you'll find on medium sized Swiss Army knives.
  • The total height of all this is 3 mm, the hole is 2 mm plus 1 mm of material on top of that (this is the same as on an Olight i3E, the central lug of that has a total height of 3 mm and a 2 mm hole). Or in other words: non of this adds length to the light, the 3 mm are needed either way.

There is a slight concern that there might not be enough material left either side of the 5 mm magnet, but I'm sure Sofirn is able to figure out if that is the case or not (not forgetting the chamfered edges of course).

huey18
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I just realize that this light must be a 3 piece host in order to accommodate a removable magnet. I hope sofirn can test the structural integrity of the tailcap since we wanted a robust flashlight.

Hoosh
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Count me in the group that for sure does NOT want a magnet in this light.

In fact, count me out of my 2 piece request if this DOES have a magnet.

Noir
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I think it is best if the light does not come with a pre-installed magnet (to make the most amount of people happy).

There are two sensible options:

A: The light does not come with a magnet at all (but with a cavity for one). If the user wants a magnet they need to buy and install one themselves (same as with the trit).

B: The light does come with a magnet, but the magnet is not pre-installed into the light. If the user wants a magnet they just need to install the one that is in the package.

I prefer option B, because it is easier for the user.

huey18
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Hoosh wrote:
Count me in the group that for sure does NOT want a magnet in this light.

In fact, count me out of my 2 piece request if this DOES have a magnet.

No one is even bringing up a permanent magnet. The removable magnet is optional.
We are just brainstorming a tail cap to accommodate the requested features.

I believe the biggest priorities are cost and robustness.
Magnet cavity, tritium slot, centering ring hole and etc are secondary.
However, if we can incorporate many of the requested secondary features in the design, then why not?

If you don’t want the magnet, then leave it in the bag and don’t install it.

defloyd77
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huey18 wrote:
Maybe Sofrin can consider a removable magnet like the one in the Skilhunt H03.

In our scenario, the magnet would not occupy the whole circle. Just the the area underneath the non tritium slot.

This would not increase the length since it is dead space.

!https://lumenzilla.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/08-skilhunt-h03-tailca...!

I’d like a magnet, but not at the cost of having a removeable tailcap. I’d much prefer the body and tail being 1 piece like the E01.

Phlogiston
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I have to say, I really like the tailcap design that Djozz and Noir are converging on. Definitely a step up from any other AAA tailcap I’ve seen Thumbs Up

I think it would be a good design for a 1×AA light as well. The only potential snag there is whether the magnet would still be strong enough, even with the opportunity to scale it up to (I presume) 7×3mm in the larger tailcap.

huey18
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I agree that a 3 piece might not ideal for durability. There are 2 options that I can think of at the moment.

1. Bore out the magnet cavity like the tritium slot and include/sell an aluminum plug and/or a magnet to fill.

2. omit the magnet feature, but design a tail cap with enough surface area so people can glue one on if they wish.

Gunga
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I love the updates. Nice design ideas on the tail.

- central hanging is no big deal for me, tailstanding is.
- I’m against the magnet, and would love the trit slot option.
- no metal bail (like the ReyLight aaa) please.

djozz
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This is a drawing that I sent to Barry. The white area is machined out 3mm lower, which should be possible in one machining pass with a 3mm cutting tool. The central 2mm hole should easily fit a 10mm inner diameter split ring (the circle in pencil is 9mm).

It shows the position of a possible magnet hole and a possible trit hole and I told him that discussion was still going on but that in the end Sofirn decides on which holes to add or not.

Noir
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Looks good, except for those 3 mm half circles to the right, they are a bit odd and unnecessary (and make chamfering all the edges more difficult). You have the drill for the hole going through anyway plus you could tilt the tool 90° and remove the 3 mm quarter circles in front of the hole if you don't want them. Or Sofirn could use a 2 mm tool for everything (except maybe the trit slot) to save one tool change. Or...

To be honest I don't think it is worth discussing the machining details, because Sofirn needs to figure this out by themselves. We don't know how they like to do things, what machines with which capabilities they have and so on.

mdeni
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Is the light enough from one led?

djozz
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Yes, Sofirn is perfectly capable of figuring out the machining details themselves, it is just that Barry, after seeing the discussion, somewhat grumpy said that simple was preferred, so I had to show that clever solutions could simple too.

I was a bit worried about if the 2mm thick 3mm long hole would indeed easily fit the 10mm split ring that I have, so I cut a 2mm hole in a 3mm thick small piece of aluminium and checked. Well, it does fit and moves easily in the hole, but there is actually hardly room to spare Innocent

defloyd77
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mdeni wrote:
Is the light enough from one led?

How do you define “enough”?

This light is basically an upgraded clone of the beloved Fenix E01, which only uses 1 5mm LED and for what the philosophy of the E01 and this light is, yes, it is enough.

mdeni
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defloyd77 wrote:
mdeni wrote:
Is the light enough from one led?

How do you define “enough”?

This light is basically an upgraded clone of the beloved Fenix E01, which only uses 1 5mm LED and for what the philosophy of the E01 and this light is, yes, it is enough.


Will it be enough to be more useful than a smartphone that we all carry in the pocket.

The size does allow for triple setup.

defloyd77
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mdeni wrote:
defloyd77 wrote:
mdeni wrote:
Is the light enough from one led?

How do you define “enough”?

This light is basically an upgraded clone of the beloved Fenix E01, which only uses 1 5mm LED and for what the philosophy of the E01 and this light is, yes, it is enough.


Will it be enough to be more useful than a smartphone that we all carry in the pocket.

The size does allow for triple setup.

A triple setup totally defeats the purpose of a light like this. If you want something with that kind of output, it’d be best to get something with a high cri Nichia.

Smart phone lights have come a long way over the years as far as output goes and the chances are a lot of them will be higher in lumens than this light. Cell phone lights are all flood though and lux can be just as important as lumens. No idea where these lights will stand on that point though.

This kind of light is the kind of light you never have to worry about working or using too much. In an emergency, do you really want to burn your phone’s battery to see?

This light is a task light, used to light up things in your immediate area and it will be bright enough for that.

TheShadowGuy
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Survey update at 25 responses:

Question 1: The current breakdown goes 2 for trit slot being a must have, 4 that want one but isn’t necessary, 10 don’t care, 6 no, and 4 definitely no. So as of current standings people prefer not having a trit slot.

Question 2: Tailstanding is vital. No respondents said their ideal tailcap wouldn’t tailstand, and only 1 deemed it not important. The majority of respondents (14) said it was vital.

Question 3: 13 yes vs 10 no on the magnet. This is very much a split decision.

Question 4: The Olight i3s tailcap is currently in the lead, followed closely by the Lumintop Ant and Manker E02. The others are pretty far behind.

Question 5: At least one person really wants it to just be an E01 like light due to the proven design. The Maratac Peanut tailcap was mentioned, and there was a clear vote for the Noir/Djozz tailcap design. Also someone reiterated that tailstanding is important.

Based on the data so far I think the Noir/Djozz design is a good idea assuming:
- It can be made within the cost target.
- It does not come with the trit/magnet installed.
- Tailstanding proves stable
- The body design can still be made in two pieces similar to the E01

The survey is still open, so if you haven’t taken it you can find it here: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/DGQ8LL3

Edit:
@mdeni: The light output from these (based on my experience with an E01vn) is a bit lower than a cell phone light but with better quality. The cell phone light vs keychain debate has been going on for a long time now. Most enthusiasts or EDC types prefer to carry a dedicated light to reduce cell phone battery usage and for the convenience that using a small dedicated device affords vs a large slab of expensive electronics.

DavidEF
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It’s looking like we might just need to drop the magnet idea, unfortunately. Either that, or screw those who don’t want one. I don’t want an empty magnet hole on the outside of the tail of the light. First of all, it won’t really look good (empty). Second, unless Sofirn provide the magnet AND a secure (and easy) way to install the magnet, it will be useless to even those who want the magnet in the tail. Very few BLFers are modders at all. Even fewer have UV activated glue and a UV light. Two part epoxy doesn’t stick well to the Nickel coating that most Neodymium magnets have. What else is there? I don’t know.

The Cycle of Goodness: “No one prospers without rendering benefit to others”
- The YKK Philosophy

djozz
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So the poll indicates sonething different than what I gathered from the responses in the thread, that underlines that doing polls is a good thing.

But I would not mind a lot more responses than 25 to get a better picture of the preferences.

rost333
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Hi, I’m in for 2×3200k

I love low mode in ThruNite Ti3. Would it be possible to have 2 modes here?
One really low (like 0.04-0.06 lm) and the second one full beam?
Low mode can be very useful in tent/bedroom situation.

TheShadowGuy
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I’m reminded of that old mantra of KISS. It might not be a bad idea to leave this as the simple, cheap, bombproof light and save the premium features for a more premium light.

I’ll keep including the survey link on my posts though so we get as many opinions as possible though. Smile

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/DGQ8LL3

richnpc
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djozz wrote:
So the poll indicates sonething different than what I gathered from the responses in the thread, that underlines that doing polls is a good thing.

But I would not mind a lot more responses than 25 to get a better picture of the preferences.

I think lurkers vote in polls rather than join the discussion, I know I’m guilty of that.

shirnask
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TheShadowGuy wrote:
I’m reminded of that old mantra of KISS. It might not be a bad idea to leave this as the simple, cheap, bombproof light and save the premium features for a more premium light.

I’ll keep including the survey link on my posts though so we get as many opinions as possible though. Smile

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/DGQ8LL3

With so many different opinions this is the best option. (probably)

TheOnlyDocc
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I like the idea to put a hole for the magnet in the back. To buy the magnet in china is cheap and everybody can do it. And there is no magic needed to glue it in.
I used JB weld on my S2+ magnets and sometimes i used B7000 glue and not 1 of the 40-50 magnets came loose.

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Random Dan
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I have no interest in a magnet and even less in tritium. However, I’m not bothered by empty pockets in the back so if others want them I’d be fine with the design Djozz posted. Central hanging and tail standing are both nice.

iamlucky13
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djozz wrote:
Yes, Sofirn is perfectly capable of figuring out the machining details themselves, it is just that Barry, after seeing the discussion, somewhat grumpy said that simple was preferred, so I had to show that clever solutions could simple too.

Djozz, you’re the point of contact, so obviously it’s up to you how to handle the discussions with Barry, but my impression is we should be careful to frame our discussion as the suggestions we think Sofirn should incorporate to make this light better, rather than demands.

They are graciously taking our input and making many very sincerely appreciated improvements to their plans as a result, but at the end of the day, I think it is important for all of us to keep in mind that this is ultimately Sofirn’s project.

After they’ve been so willing to listen to our requests on the more significant design elements like potting and drive current, hearing that Barry might be a bit frustrated by our lengthy discussion on a less significant (at least to me) element like tail design makes me wonder if we’re presuming a bit too direct of involvement here.

I hope we’re able to suggest a good tail design to Sofirn that they like and is cost effective to make, but I also want to make sure that on the whole they enjoy interacting with us so they are motivated to not only bring this project to fruition, but might also seek input from BLF on future projects.

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