Just wondering why domestic version of say the Olight Intimidator SST-90, Fenix TK-70, insert domestic XML cost 100+ dollars vs. chinese brands such as Trustfire, Uniqiuefire, Fandyfire etc…
I know there aren’t really clones of the exact ones listed but thinking along the lines as TK-70 = TR-J12. etc…. a 154 dollar price difference for give or take a few hundred lumens.
Take this for example: $105 dollar: Amazon.com vs.
$22 dollar: Amazon.com
It’s a bit like a PC and a Mac, you pay for the branding.
It actually isn’t as simple as that.
When you buy a chinese light (Trustfire eg.), most of the time some extra work is needed, or you won’t have too much fun with your light. The heatsink on the cheap lights is often very bad, and the drivers also suck. Also the wages in China are way below the ones in the US or Europe, so the companies can save lots of money!
If you get a expensive, quality light, you just have to charge your cells and have fun. And most of the time you have some kind of warranty. 
But of course, you also pay for the name . . .
For the smaller lights, you usually pay for build quality (but tbh you don’t NEED that good quality, the chinese versions are more than enough).
For lights like the SR 90, that has a 100mm head, which no chinese version has copied yet and uses an SST90.
The TK70, also has a massive head which is great for throw, 117k lux.
Since there aren’t any chinese versions of these yet I guess you’re paying for exclusivity, and since nobody else sells them they can jack up the price.
All those brands listed are Chinese as well. It’s like saying why is a Toyota cheaper than a Lexus.
Another example are the highly marketed and distributed China-made aluminum Rayovac lights (Rayovac Indestructible, Varta Indestructible), which cost only 15$ in retail. The factory uses cheap parts, reflector, plastic lens, glue and production cost may be 6$ incl full packaging. The factory produces ten thousands of this model and Rayovac (=flashlight brand) must pay, say 8$ (or less) to cover for everything. Homedepot's cost price is maybe 11$, so the rough earnings are:
factory: 2$
Rayovac: 3$
Homedepot: 4$
meaning that the retailer always earns biggest cut. If you have followed breaking bad closely you will begin to believe that i am hero.
I don’t need a sophisticated driver, does that mean I can get buy with a Solarforce light with a cheap dropin?
Don’t forget the shipping advantage as well, the Chinese government subsiding there shipping to help increase manufacturing capacity. So even if a domestic supplier can manage to manufacture something of similar quality for the same price as a Chinese product the Chinese government subsidizes the shipping cost so the advantage for an evenly produced product again is given to the Chinese product since they can basically ship it for free were are shipping costs can add a significant increase in price to a product.
I think it’s bigger than we realize, when we look at it. I think one of the biggies is China’s manipulation of the Yuan. It is manipulated so that it is undervalued, so automatically China has an advantage, because when under valued, they can manufacture and sell cheaper “on paper”. There are so many costs that you have to factor into. Of course, labor costs are a big difference and costs of health care, or workers compensation, insurance and all the real costs of manufacturing that come into play, are less than in other countries. Take a worker who lost a finger. In the US, they might get $50,000 for that loss, but in China, they might get $500 for that loss, if they get anything. Take all the differences and it adds up to huge costs in countries like the US, who have defeated ourselves from too much greed, too much control, too much excess, too many mistakes. China’s just reaping the benefit of their ability to fill the demand with cheap products in mass volumes.
But, here’s one thing that I also believe is true. China is going to really destroy itself if it keeps up this way. Costs are rising there, things are changing, as they do everywhere and they aren’t making the kind of profits we think they are. They are making low profits in order to manufacture and sell huge volumes, but as costs rise in China, they will either have to join the rest of the developed world, by raising pricing, or they will fall into a huge debit spiral. Basically, they will go the way all the rest of us have and fail as we have. LOL, Gotta love humanity…
I think the US needs to have a VAT on all overseas goods, as well as Mexico (undo NAFTA), of course it’s probably too late, but better late than Never.
Don’t also forget that with the expensive brands you are paying for a warranty that most users would need but we flashaholics can repair ourselves for a fraction of the cost.
Not just branding, quality, or labor skill. It’s also caused by the fact that brand-name manufacturers like Olight, Xtar, etc, have to invest a lot into research & development, while UltraFire and similars just copy existing light designs (e.g. UltraFire 504B is copy of SureFire 6P).
I’m pretty sure this isn’t true to any significant degree. I’ve seen the postage rate they pay when discrete stamps are used and it’s not dissimilar to USPS shipping to china. Frankly I’m surprised they make anything on some of the stuff I’ve bought.
The Yuan is somewhat pegged to the dollar, which isn’t all that uncommon and hardly constitutes “manipulation” as economically defined. This a benefit to both importer and exporter.
They’re a developing nation so of course costs esp labor is less, which is both to their (foreign revenue) and our general (cheap prices) advantage. The general development strategy as their GDP per capita increases is to shift to higher tech industries/exports, not unlike Korea/Japan.
kreisler is mostly right in this thread. Lower end budget lights (esp. fake “ultrafire”) cost very little because they’re probably manufactured in po-dunk factories with spare capacity. I get the feeling it’s done for revenue more so than profit since some of the stuff seems to cost less wholesale than the parts. Better budget products like Romisen and real Ultrafire use high quality machinery same as premium brands, but their designs are usually less sophisticated. IMO that’s about to change since DC DC drivers and uController programming is hardly magic. The most recent ultrafire products are almost on par with high end stuff for example.
The biggest difference IMO is quality control and the level of service. Zebralight will repair their lights if broken, and answer your emails. This allows them to be closer to the customer in that regard and offer desirable features like modes that make sense and neutral tints. They also make the effort to make sure everything works right out of the gate and chuck the pieces that are even slightly off. Because of their price range, they can afford to not cut corners and sometimes cutting corners is apparent only after the fact. For example, how many of us have bought more stuff just because of some annoying behavior in a low cost light whereas quite a few consider jetbeam and zebralights to be “perfect”. It’s all in the fun of the hobby of course, but I can’t imagine a normal consumer putting up with finicky clickies or a “memory” that takes 2 minutes to set, or a finish that almost falls off by itself.
You see the postage rates on the package, that doesnt have anything to do with what they actually pay for it. Those are just stamps.
Oh, and the Yuan is "manipulated".. meaning that the people's bank of China will do anything to keep the rate within a certain distance to the dollar.
I’m not sure what this is implying, but it’s worth noting that stamps can be exchanged for actual money.
Yes, that’s what currency pegging means. It’s quite common, and not defined as “manipulation” except by politicians who have a very low opinion of their constituents.
lol. :D There was a thread about that. Chinese companies get massive subventions. They pay nearly nothing for shipping, but of course that would be against the rules of some global organization, so its being done inofficial.
Meh, now lets not argue about semantics.. But you do agree that the Yuan is massively underrated and that the people's bank is keeping it that way at almost any cost? I assume I dont have to explain you how it works, but it wont work on the long run. Thats why they start making compromises and increasing the value.
There is a lot of foreign workers in China who get paid $80 US a month.Production costs are much cheaper. You only have to look on Alibaba to see how much things cost if you buy in bulk.
I have no doubt that corruption is possible in china of all places, but let me clarify what I mean. I can understand subsidies on bulk rates. You simply print the label and not pay the proper amount to the state. But note that some vendors which charge the same prices use discrete official stamps. These are as good as cash. So why would people who are ostensibly corrupt paste cash on their packages?
It’s uncertain how any fiat currency is “under” or “over” rated given that the entire point of such a thing is that the state controls the rate. China choose to peg to the USD (would you say this the USD is over or under rated?) given it’s their largest trading partner. The arrangement is mutually beneficial in aggregate so I’m not sure what you feel the problem is.
Maybe they dont want make it too obvious? You give the guy at the post office a few hundred bucks and he just puts the right amount of stamps, worth maybe thousands on the packages and noone will ever care. Never been to China, dont know how they do it, but they do it.
$:€ = 1:1 would currently be an underrated € or an overrated $. The problem is that you cant keep a currency way underrated without negative influences. China wouldnt be that big if the currency was at a realistic exchange rate. And yes, I think thats a problem. ;)