Test / Review: "Himax 2600" 18650 batteries from "pingyi.co.ltd" on eBay (very poor results)

107 posts / 0 new
Last post
Shaneatproshop
Offline
Last seen: 8 years 10 months ago
Joined: 08/28/2012 - 19:52
Posts: 15
Location: Lakeland,FL

Can you please send those to me in an email so i can get those over to Pingyi? I would be upset if they sent those to me when i clearly ask for Samsung core batteries.

shane@protacticalshop.com

I will need to ask but, when i put my orders in, i have to wait up to 8 weeks sometimes for the manufacture to finish my order. It could be that i ask for the Samsungs and that is why i wait..???

-Shane

wshyang
Offline
Last seen: 8 years 8 months ago
Joined: 07/19/2012 - 03:35
Posts: 118

Shaneatproshop wrote:
Haha,
Okay while i was writing this thread you posted pictures..

I am not sure about the set of batteries you received but i promise mine are the real Samsung core cells. You did not get the batteries from me which makes it a bit harder to correct the issue. Pingyi just puts the label on the units but Samsung creates the cells for us. I’m working with Pingyi to hopefully find what happen with why you have a Sony cell. This swap of cells error would happen in the Pingyi manufacture and not Samsung. I would like you to get some pictures of the battery once the label is pulled please.

I greatly appreciate your interdependent testing, but after review i feel that you discharge current is beyond Samsungs core preparation rang.

So to clarify the same Himax labelled cells on the outside can be spec-ed differently inside? That’s great, maybe next time I’ll order from you instead, but do you ship internationally?

Yes, I admit that 2.5A discharge is generally high. I tend to test my old cells at only 1.5A discharge, but I just figured that… these are supposedly new, and I don’t have two days to do the testing if they are all supposedly perfect Smile

edc
edc's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 1 month ago
Joined: 01/16/2011 - 02:28
Posts: 3300
Location: NSW AUSTRALIA

So pingyi make these or buy these wrapped. I think they got a great deal on some pre wrapped ones and thought we can sell these and make a great profit and who will know the difference. Most user's wouldn't so even if they have to refund a few people they are still in front. Probably why I only buy panasonics now

 

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums

wshyang
Offline
Last seen: 8 years 8 months ago
Joined: 07/19/2012 - 03:35
Posts: 118

Shaneatproshop wrote:
Can you please send those to me in an email so i can get those over to Pingyi? I would be upset if they sent those to me when i clearly ask for Samsung core batteries.

shane@protacticalshop.com

I will need to ask but, when i put my orders in, i have to wait up to 8 weeks sometimes for the manufacture to finish my order. It could be that i ask for the Samsungs and that is why i wait..???

-Shane

Not a problem, you can just copy my post and send it over to them, my phone automagically uploads onto Google+, so that’s where all my photos are uploaded.

wshyang
Offline
Last seen: 8 years 8 months ago
Joined: 07/19/2012 - 03:35
Posts: 118
edc wrote:

So pingyi make these or buy these wrapped. I think they got a great deal on some pre wrapped ones and thought we can sell these and make a great profit and who will know the difference. Most user’s wouldn’t so even if they have to refund a few people they are still in front. Probably why I only buy panasonics now

To be honest I was originally thinking these were some “good quality Chinese made” cells. But they turned out to be “subgrade Japanese made” cells.

DarkSide
DarkSide's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 2 months ago
Joined: 06/04/2012 - 01:50
Posts: 792
Location: NYC

Folks – I haven’t read the entire thread but i thought it critical to post first.

You have crap cells? Looks like this is somewhat confirmed at the very least. If
you do? My suggestion is put them aside and stop testing them. Unless your
your qualified to do so as i know some are. I am certainly no expert but
i can tell you i have been in similar situations. Worst case scenario
is some one charges these particular cells in a charger that doesn’t meter the V.
User doesn’t test the battery’s after charging at all and uses them in an
ultra high discharge flashlight that many own nowadays. Please don’t do this.

If your discharging in a hobby charger? Its not even worth it. A few knowledgeable
folks on here have already provided feedback. That should be sufficient.

IMO , this company that re-labels Li_ion cells has done just that. There’s a real market for
2nd hand garbage like this overseas. I know this. And there are only a few manufacturers
that make the Li-ion core. Quality control in a Panasonic or Samsung factory is
extremely high. Li_ion cells are binned according QC and typically sold in huge quantities
to sub manufacturers that have pre-purchased the high quality cells. The lower quality
or inferior (in discharge rate) are sold for specific uses, requiring much less discharge.
There’s very little room for this kind of F—k up. I’ll drop off here but i will say
the variety of cells your finding and the amount of life cycle ( wrapper color) they
have left seems to me they were sitting in another application for a few years..

 


DarkSide
DarkSide's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 2 months ago
Joined: 06/04/2012 - 01:50
Posts: 792
Location: NYC

Someone should sticky this thread.

 


Shaneatproshop
Offline
Last seen: 8 years 10 months ago
Joined: 08/28/2012 - 19:52
Posts: 15
Location: Lakeland,FL

I sent the pictures over to Pingyi. I am interested in what they will say. The batteries are made in Korea and Pingyi only puts the labels on them.

wshyang
Offline
Last seen: 8 years 8 months ago
Joined: 07/19/2012 - 03:35
Posts: 118

One last label peel, this one looks like a Sanyo, it has a “B” where typically there is a “C” and “D” on my other Sanyos:




And here is how a Sanyo looks like, notice the positioning of the text:

raccoon city
raccoon city's picture
Online
Last seen: 6 min 24 sec ago
Joined: 10/06/2010 - 02:35
Posts: 17311
Location: रॅकून सिटी Palm Desert CA USA

It's a pleasure to have you onboard, Shaneatproshop!

Best0270

Shaneatproshop

wshyang
Offline
Last seen: 8 years 8 months ago
Joined: 07/19/2012 - 03:35
Posts: 118

DarkSide wrote:
Folks – I haven’t read the entire thread but i thought it critical to post first.

You have crap cells? Looks like this is somewhat confirmed at the very least. If
you do? My suggestion is put them aside and stop testing them. Unless your
your qualified to do so as i know some are. I am certainly no expert but
i can tell you i have been in similar situations. Worst case scenario
is some one charges these particular cells in a charger that doesn’t meter the V.
User doesn’t test the battery’s after charging at all and uses them in an
ultra high discharge flashlight that many own nowadays. Please don’t do this.

If your discharging in a hobby charger? Its not even worth it. A few knowledgeable
folks on here have already provided feedback. That should be sufficient.

IMO , this company that re-labels Li_ion cells has done just that. There’s a real market for
2nd hand garbage like this overseas. I know this. And there are only a few manufacturers
that make the Li-ion core. Quality control in a Panasonic or Samsung factory is
extremely high. Li_ion cells are binned according QC and typically sold in huge quantities
to sub manufacturers that have pre-purchased the high quality cells. The lower quality
or inferior (in discharge rate) are sold for specific uses, requiring much less discharge.
There’s very little room for this kind of F—k up. I’ll drop off here but i will say
the variety of cells your finding and the amount of life cycle ( wrapper color) they
have left seems to me they were sitting in another application for a few years..

http://forums.candlepowerforums.com

Shadowww
Offline
Last seen: 5 hours 35 min ago
Joined: 01/20/2012 - 19:09
Posts: 1343
Location: Northern Europe

wshyang wrote:
http://forums.candlepowerforums.com

There’s difference between “budget” and “crap”.
Sanyo UR18650FM’s for $3.80/each or Panasonic’s for <$5/each off Bestvaping – that’s budget.
Crap cells for same price – that’s, well, not budget.
Shadowww
Offline
Last seen: 5 hours 35 min ago
Joined: 01/20/2012 - 19:09
Posts: 1343
Location: Northern Europe

I’ve removed shrinkwrap/PCB from 16 of my HiMax-es, and this is what I saw:
http://haax.in/12080149.jpg
No Sony cells, but.. this doesn’t looks good. :/ Especially considering how some cells (especially noticeable on 4th one in top row) are physically damaged.

wshyang
Offline
Last seen: 8 years 8 months ago
Joined: 07/19/2012 - 03:35
Posts: 118
Shadowww wrote:
I’ve removed shrinkwrap/PCB from 16 of my HiMax-es, and this is what I saw: http://haax.in/12080149.jpg No Sony cells, but.. this doesn’t looks good. :/ Especially considering how some cells (especially noticeable on 4th one in top row) are physically damaged.

The ones with a “D” look like Sanyos.

Shaneatproshop
Offline
Last seen: 8 years 10 months ago
Joined: 08/28/2012 - 19:52
Posts: 15
Location: Lakeland,FL

I am still waiting on some documentation from Pingyi but they insist mine are brand new Samsungs.

I’m still have not received a clear answer on the pictures i sent them about the Sony cell you have. I brought it up for the 3rd time and this was the reply along with a picture of the different Samsung batteries.

Pingyi,

“For he defines a brand. Need to see the battery anode, head
I am for you to do a simple description of images.
The better I have confirmed that, we battery is not recycled product, and then processing
Purchasing, and goods are samsung original skin,
Then we will it take off, and put on hi – Max”

I have about 400 HI-Max in stock and they seem to be consistently numbered under the white label. I didn’t check them all but sorted through enough to put me at ease.

-Shane

Shadowww, All of my units look like yours with out the dents.

Shaneatproshop
Offline
Last seen: 8 years 10 months ago
Joined: 08/28/2012 - 19:52
Posts: 15
Location: Lakeland,FL

Thanks raccoon city! Thats an awesome light you have! :bigsmile:

-Shane

raccoon city
raccoon city's picture
Online
Last seen: 6 min 24 sec ago
Joined: 10/06/2010 - 02:35
Posts: 17311
Location: रॅकून सिटी Palm Desert CA USA

It is a very nice flashlight.

Unfortunately it belongs to BLF member rikr, and not me.   Sad

(Don't worry, I'll live.)   Smile

Ecig
Offline
Last seen: 9 years 1 week ago
Joined: 04/28/2012 - 22:37
Posts: 807
Location: Switzerland

SO can someone make sghort conclusion.
I read but I dont understand.

SO these cells are Samsung after all.

And how come they have so high voltage sag??? Like any ordinary chinese cell.

Shaneatproshop
Offline
Last seen: 8 years 10 months ago
Joined: 08/28/2012 - 19:52
Posts: 15
Location: Lakeland,FL

Ecig, They are suppose to be Samsung cells. I am confident that my units are, but we are trying to figure out why there is a Sony and possibly a Sonyo Cell mixed in.

I can’t speak for others but i am concerned on the honesty and reliability of Pingyi LTD. I am working on getting this answer.

When you ask “And how come they have so high voltage sag??? Like any ordinary Chinese cell” Do you mean voltage Dip/sag in the beginning of the graph? Like or unlike any ordinary Chinese cell?

The Dip is rapid because the discharge rate was 2.5 amp (2500mAh) which is beyond Samsungs core preparation rang. This test on the batteries needs to be done again to get more accurate results. The load was simply to high.

Test done right or not, it still doesn’t explain why there is a possible Sony cell in the mix.

-Shane

ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS
ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 3 months ago
Joined: 08/04/2011 - 23:47
Posts: 5693
Location: southeast MO

Pingyi has told me via email that he will get to the bottom of this and for me not to worry about any bad cells. So I take it that means if I get faulty cells he will replace them.

I do know one thing that these Hi-Max batteries use to be good.

Ecig
Offline
Last seen: 9 years 1 week ago
Joined: 04/28/2012 - 22:37
Posts: 807
Location: Switzerland

Shaneatproshop wrote:
Ecig, They are suppose to be Samsung cells. I am confident that my units are, but we are trying to figure out why there is a Sony and possibly a Sonyo Cell mixed in.

I can’t speak for others but i am concerned on the honesty and reliability of Pingyi LTD. I am working on getting this answer.

When you ask “And how come they have so high voltage sag??? Like any ordinary Chinese cell” Do you mean voltage Dip/sag in the beginning of the graph? Like or unlike any ordinary Chinese cell?

The Dip is rapid because the discharge rate was 2.5 amp (2500mAh) which is beyond Samsungs core preparation rang. This test on the batteries needs to be done again to get more accurate results. The load was simply to high.

Test done right or not, it still doesn’t explain why there is a possible Sony cell in the mix.

-Shane

Shane, by big voltage sag I mean the following:

I bought them especially because of graphs I saw here, and I have only 1A discharge equipment (hobby charger) so Ill talk only about 1A discharging curves.

From first reviews here (based on wich we all bought these cells), this cells hold 3,8V after 30 mins discharging with 1A…

In my testing, all Himax cells had similar results as any other cheap cell. (better then some, worse than some) – specifically, all cells come down to a*t least 3,6V and below *after a minute or so (discharging with 1A)….
So this is a big big difference. And after 30 mins they can be way down. SO thats 0,4-0,5V difference in voltage sag previously and now… (I didnt had previous now, this is my first purchase of Himax cells, I wanted something better then Trustfire flames and this is what I got)

Just now I started measuring one cell, it dropped to 3,50V in 10 seconds!!! And thats at only 1A… (some cheap 1000mAh Ultrafire cells I have hold 3,64-3,60 after a minute…)

Can you comment on that?

PS: I think you made a mistake, you probably wanted to say that you are “NOT” concerned in pingyi’s honesty.

EDCPlus
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 1 week ago
Joined: 03/08/2012 - 22:09
Posts: 320
Location: California

I can’t comment on the quality of these cells…

However I can say without a doubt that the graphs posted by the OP’s CBA are a bit misleading…

The jagged lines are due to a poor connection and resistance from the CBA to the battery changing throughout the discharge test.

The CBA has a horrible connection method. I have had many tests turn out like the OP’s that are perfectly good cells.

You should bend the prongs from the CBA connector to make a good solid connection and try some more tests…

C-channel
C-channel's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 8 months ago
Joined: 03/22/2012 - 07:23
Posts: 634
Location: Singapore

thanks for sacrificing your own batteries to proof the quality.

How bright is bright enough...

Runtime VS Lumens...

rikr
rikr's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 09/03/2011 - 21:50
Posts: 2163
Location: Fenton, MO

Shaneatproshop wrote:
Thanks raccoon city! Thats an awesome light you have! :bigsmile:

-Shane

That is a nice light there!!! :bigsmile: Beer

 

 

 New Collection / Old Collection

 
Ecig
Offline
Last seen: 9 years 1 week ago
Joined: 04/28/2012 - 22:37
Posts: 807
Location: Switzerland

OP’s CBA? Whats that?

I dont know about my equipment, but even if readings are not nominally correct, they surely have some comparative value, and by these tests these cells are not better than my Trustfire flames, just some 200mAh higher capacity. (because Trustfire flames i regurarly measure just below 2000, and these I regurarly measure, with some exceptions, just below 2200, when discharging with 1A to 2,8V)

HKJ
HKJ's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 9 hours ago
Joined: 05/24/2011 - 12:23
Posts: 7448
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Ecig wrote:
CBA? Whats that?

 

A battery analyzer, very useful if you want to test batteries, but also expensive.

A hobby charger can do the same, for less money, but might not have the same precision.

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): https://lygte-info.dk/

wshyang
Offline
Last seen: 8 years 8 months ago
Joined: 07/19/2012 - 03:35
Posts: 118

Shaneatproshop wrote:
Ecig, They are suppose to be Samsung cells. I am confident that my units are, but we are trying to figure out why there is a Sony and possibly a Sonyo Cell mixed in.

I can’t speak for others but i am concerned on the honesty and reliability of Pingyi LTD. I am working on getting this answer.

When you ask “And how come they have so high voltage sag??? Like any ordinary Chinese cell” Do you mean voltage Dip/sag in the beginning of the graph? Like or unlike any ordinary Chinese cell?

The Dip is rapid because the discharge rate was 2.5 amp (2500mAh) which is beyond Samsungs core preparation rang. This test on the batteries needs to be done again to get more accurate results. The load was simply to high.

Test done right or not, it still doesn’t explain why there is a possible Sony cell in the mix.

-Shane

Actually, 2.5A is only 1C. That is very low you know, it is not a very high discharge rate as you are purporting.

wshyang
Offline
Last seen: 8 years 8 months ago
Joined: 07/19/2012 - 03:35
Posts: 118

EDCPlus wrote:

You should bend the prongs from the CBA connector to make a good solid connection and try some more tests…

Yes, at some point I will do this, especially for the weird 1000mah cells.

Just that they are unwrapped and naked now, I am also planning to rig up a more robust holder someday to provent a naked battery from going poof during testing.

Shaneatproshop
Offline
Last seen: 8 years 10 months ago
Joined: 08/28/2012 - 19:52
Posts: 15
Location: Lakeland,FL

For anyone that may not know, I am a vendor for these batteries.

Before I start to dig to deep, I want to get a few things clear. Honestly, I don’t care about these batteries. I’m NOT defending them. I will simply stop carrying them if the quality is poor. I stock many brands of batteries and flashlights. I will not hesitate to pull these off the shelf as I have done with other items; if they are junk.

I am not on this forum to bicker. I really don’t want to point fingers nor do I want to tell somebody they are doing something wrong. I’m on this thread to get to the bottom of a flaw from a manufacturing vendor that I trusted. To this point I still do; with some uneasy doubt. We can only hope for the best.

The ultimate reason I need to get to the bottom of this is the customers! I listen to my customers as these batteries where recommended by a few different enthusiasts. Now that we may have a flaw, it is important that all the customers that were sold batteries in the past had received what they paid for. It is a duty to do this service so I sleep better at night.

This thread has led me to purchase test equipment to run the batteries through. I want to do these tests per Samsung specifications in my own controlled environment.

Many people on and off these forums have dealt with me as a supplier. If you have, you know, or at least I think you know, that I do my best to cater on a personal level. This is how I run my small growing business and how I plan to keep it.

I will eventually come to a conclusion on whether I will continue to stock these batteries based on the test results. These batteries don’t seem to under or over perform more than any other brand that I carry. Nor has anyone ever contacted me and complained about the performance of these batteries.

I’ll keep you posted,

-Shane

Shaneatproshop
Offline
Last seen: 8 years 10 months ago
Joined: 08/28/2012 - 19:52
Posts: 15
Location: Lakeland,FL

I will have a better comment on the voltage drop when i do my own test.

I said it right about Pingyi, I feel my cells are new Samsung but something is not right about the Sony cell mixed in. This is the trust issue i have.

-Shane

Pages