Nitecore EA8 tear down - Modding will be later and in a different thread.

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Old-Lumens
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Nitecore EA8 tear down - Modding will be later and in a different thread.

 

EDIT: I want to state here, for anyone else reading, that this whole thread (or most of it), was based on MY uninformed, knee jerk reaction to something I saw as a problem. The Real problem is my lack of knowledge when it comes to anything other than conjecture. I did what I Normally do and I ran my mouth without having any real knowledge. It's what I do, it's how I am. I develop my own thoughts based on non-scientific results. which ends up being useless words.

So, what I am saying is, that most of what I say is hot air and useless. There is obviously nothing really wrong with this Nitecore light, it's just my convoluted thinking, but the thread remains, so I have to warn you of my foolishness before you go through what the others already have. My apologies, but I will do it again somewhere, I always do.

 

I thought I would show what I ran into so far, in tearing down the EA8.

ea8zz1

That's a stock photo, y'all know what it looks like now most likely.

 

Red loctite was used on the head to body threads. I could not get it to move at all. I ended up doing something that I knew would cause problems, but I wanted the derned thing apart. I used heat. A lot of heat. I finally got the head off and here's a couple photos of how much loctite they used. Hint; you should only use a drop of it.

ea8a1a

Threads inside the head.

ea81a2

Threads on the body. These threads were totally covered. I guess Nitecore wanted to insure that no one would ever get it apart. Wrong...

 

 

ea8ref1

Here's the reflector. It measures out to 54.5mm OD at the top and 42mm OAL. The led hole is 8.9mm and there should be enough flat to open the hole up for an SST-90 or an MT-G2.

 

ea8pill1

Inside the body is the LED on an Aluminum star. There is a plastic spacer in there as well.

ea8pill2

Here you can see the star and the Aluminum disc "Heat sink". OMG is that a heat sink?

ea8pill3

Yes, that little pad measuring 35mm diameter and 2mm thick is the ONLY heat sink in this darned light! It sits on a PLASTIC spacer and nowhere does it touch the outer walls. EDIT: Of course, now I have to take that back, as after measuring everything, it does contact the wall of the body. There is no real heat sink and for all their hype, Nitecore is no better than the rest of the Mfgs overseas. Simply put, it sucks.

 

ea8pill4

The whole pill can be pressed out, by pushing on the bottom side, down inside the body tube. Here is the bottom side.

ea8pill5

with the fiber isolator removed. The bottom side of the driver board.

 

ea8pill6

Here is the plastic holder and the driver on the bottom side of it. On top is where the heat sink was mounted. It is all held together with two small pieces of clear tape.

 

 

The next series of shots are of the driver and switch.

ea8d1

ea8d2

ea8d3

ea8d4

ea8d5

ea8d6

ea8d7

I am not a driver guy, so I have no comments here. You can view the photos and see what you can figure out.

I do believe that the batteries are set up in 4S/2P configuration.

 

 

ea8h1

Here's a photo of the inside of the head.

 

 

I am going to mod this light. It's a matter of what I will do for a led. I thought of an XM-L2 with a DrJones driver, but I just may have an MT-G2 (possibly, maybe), in a couple of weeks or so. I am not sure which way I will go.

 

I do think I will use a short reflector and a much bigger heat sink.

ea8peek1

 

I just thought I would show the tear down, in case people wanted to see the driver.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

New Photos Added 04-19-2013

cfh5

First of all, here is how the driver, plastic housing and heat sink fit together inside the body.

 

 

du7u7

Now, let's measure the OD of the heat sink.

 

mkl9

And the Thickness.

 

cleyu5

Let's also examine the edge of the heat sink. You can see where the heat sink did touch the body (red arrow) and where it did not touch the body (blue arrow). Only about 50% of the heat sink touching. Remember that for later.

 

 

zdsfvf

Now let's look at the "shelf" On this side it is right around .011" protruding

 

bvvbmou

On this side it's around .032" protruding.

 

srty8

A backlit photo looks pretty good. There is quite a bit of area touching.

Remember though, that only half the thickness of the heat sink is actually touching, so 1mm thickness by roughly 3/4 of the circumference, since there are areas where it's not touching at all. The "lip" in the body really is only a stop. Also remember that where the heat sink is touching the body, it's touching Anodizing, not bare metal.

So now maybe it answers a few more questions... Or it just raises more questions.

 

 

In case anyone runs into real Loctite, here's what the Mfg says;

red
It is only
removable once cured by heating up parts to 500°F (260°C).

 

blue
For disassembly, shear with standard hand tools and remove with methylene chloride. In rare instances where hand tools do not work because of excessive engagement length, apply localized heat to nut or bolt to approximately 482°F (250°C). Disassemble while hot.

 

green
For disassembly, shear with standard hand tools and remove with methylene chloride. In rare instances where hand tools do not work because of excessive engagement length, apply localized heat to nut or bolt to approximately 482°F (250°C). Disassemble while hot.

 

The red thread locker on the Nitecore is NOT Loctite brand, as it gave up before the Ano discolored. I imagine it's an overseas budget type locker.

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Edited by: Old-Lumens on 04/21/2013 - 19:48
djozz
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Thanks for the tear down OL. Nice to see the inside, and great pictures too. (I do miss the introductory theme song though, something with tear downs of beautifull things? Wink)

One thing I noticed in your mods is that you usually use a lot of heat sink mass. Although that buys you time untill that mass is 'filled up' with heat, what matters in the end (I think) is a good thermal connection to the shell of the flashlight (which this Nitecore clearly does not have, shame on Nitecore!). So why not leave most of that mass out but just make sure that there is a good metal 'guidance' for the heat to the outside?

Oh, and my vote for this mod is for the MT-G2 neutral 4000K Laughing, that one should have just one beautiful tint!

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Thanks OL, great to see the guts of the light, an MTG2 sounds a lot more exciting. That heatsink design is very disappointing from nitecore. I noticed that my P25, for a highly driven premium light, takes a while to heat up and suspected there was poor heat transfer, this confirms things.

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Nice pics. I’m curious about the driver switch combination you will use.

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It actually seems considering how they’ve isolated the heatsink from the body they are trying to stop heat from transferring to the body. My guess is they’ve received complaints in the past from average Joe’s about heat from flashlights. Unfortunately, your average Joe knows nothing about XML v heat performance, and it’s shameful if this is the case that nitecore have taken this route, it’s highly impractical and defeats the purpose of an aluminium flashlight. Better education would have been the way to go. Case in point some of the older models like the nitecore MT26 seem to transfer heat well considering how fast it gets hot compared with my newer P25.

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Thanks for the tear down. It’s surprising the heatsinking on this light is as bad as it is and I guess the EA4 would be similar. With all there testing though it must do the job it was designed for. I wonder if they use reverse engineering on these things to make these as cheap as possible. Build something big and dumb it down until it stops and then go back to the last step that did not break it. By using the heatsink like they have I assume they can use a thin walled tube instead off solid to make the body. Less machining and waste.
MTG-2 sounds good. I didn’t have a chance to go shopping today. Hopefully tomorrow.
Anyone reading this, I’m interested in another Defiant 3C. PM me if you have anything. Cheers.

 

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Quick question, is the bezel easily removable?If you remove it, can you have then access to the led only for mod?

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WOW

When I saw the photos of the thread locker, I was thinking – loctite isn’t cheap, so the only reason to do that is if you’re trying to hide something.

and then I saw the aluminum tape and thought…why would they put that on top of an aluminum plate?!

PLASTIC?!

unless that’s magic plastic – that light has the WORST heatsinking of any light I’ve ever seen.

the cat is out of the bag – I wouldn’t pay $30 for one now…and I love AAs

Thanks OL!

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Wow, a very revealing post.

Reminds Me of a Joke

An alien ship lands on earth. They have a device that will solve all the problems mankind has ever encountered or will encounter. The aliens give the device to the first man they encounter. If the man is a real man he will:

A. Share the device with all of mankind.

B. Keep the device for himself.

C. Take apart the device to see how it works.

Obviously the answer is C.

jamio
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This is just unbelievable. Nitecore are you serious about the heatsink? Such a great designed light and they ruin it like this. I was very close to buy one but not anymore, not for almost $100.

Thanks OL for sharing this, I'm looking forward to your mod!

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Nitecore lights never give me a “Wow!” feeling plus they are selling it at a very expensive price point… and now what? Such a “heat sink”!

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Unfortunately you will find the same heat-dissipation design in the EA4….

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I just bought a EC25 and never felt it warm even on turbo. Not a good sign….
Thank you old-lumen. That explained a lot.
Still wish to see a EC25 tear down sometime in the future.

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What Heatsink?? I'm shocked that Nitecore would do that. Surprised

 Congrats on getting the rascal apart without dynamite. Congrats as well for not destroying it in the teardown. YOU ARE NOT IN MY SHOP!!!  Five minutes after starting what you did, the light would be totally unrecognizable!!!! Acetylene torches and 20 Lb. sledge hammers have that effect somehow! Tongue Out

I'm anxious to see your IMPROVEMENTS to a hunk of junk! At least we know when "Old-Lumens" gets finished with it that it will be functional.... and not a smoker!

Thanks for sharing!!!   Dan.

 

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my vote is for an mtg2 Smile

thanks for the tear down – very informative

what the heck with the heatsink? i am disappointed in nitecore!

Would you mind keeping the wrong flashlight?
Best wish, May
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bad1

I could see it, if the lip inside the body, below the "heat sink" had been thicker, where the "heat sink" actually sat on the shelf. I could also see making the "heat sink" big enough to "really touch" the body at the heat sink's OD, but they didn't score on either one. What their style suggests is that either:

  1. We know nothing about led technology or electricity and there is no real heat produced, so no heat sinking is really needed.
  2. They are counting on the fact that the majority of people using the light will not be using it on Turbo or even High, but they will use it on low or medium and not for any sustained periods of time.
  3. Nitecore does not have a clue.

I would thing that "B" is the real reason for it. I bet that most manufacturers figure on most people using the lower modes and only on shorter times. I can see that to a certain point, but I think it would be better to opt with a thicker heat sink and get it out to the wall of the head/body by making it a tight fit.

They made a thin head with lots of good fins. They also made a thin body. Why? So heat could get out to the open air and also to a person's hand quickly. This alone tells me that they thought it through, but I just don't feel they hit the mark where the "heat sink" comes up to the body, to transfer heat.

No matter what, I just don't think it's a very good method in the EA8.

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djozz
One thing I noticed in your mods is that you usually use a lot of heat sink mass. Although that buys you time until that mass is 'filled up' with heat, what matters in the end (I think) is a good thermal connection to the shell of the flashlight (which this Nitecore clearly does not have, shame on Nitecore!). So why not leave most of that mass out but just make sure that there is a good metal 'guidance' for the heat to the outside?

 The heat sink will probably be thinner than what is shown and it will be tight (press fit) inside the body. It's just like a Maglite D, there is no room to put a heat sink in the head, it has to go in the body tube.

 

Rufusbduck
Nice pics. I’m curious about the driver switch combination you will use.

So am I.Laughing   If it's an XM-L2, then a DrJones driver. If it's an MT-G2, then whatever the gurus tell me will work, as I have no clue. I just know it has to be able to work with the current switch that is in the light (maybe, for now, possibly). LOL

 

whokilledJR
It actually seems considering how they’ve isolated the heat sink from the body they are trying to stop heat from transferring to the body.

That does sound like a possibility, doesn't it? Wouldn't that be terrible if it was the reason?

 

MRsDNF
By using the heat sink like they have I assume they can use a thin walled tube instead off solid to make the body. Less machining and waste.

I will show photos of the body. It was a solid tube and mill work was done, just like the SRK is done.

 

ergotelis
Quick question, is the bezel easily removable?If you remove it, can you have then access to the led only for mod?

The bezel comes off easily and you can remove lens, O-ring and reflector from the top. Changing the led is possible, but it would be hard to solder down in there.

 

dthrckt
PLASTIC?!

Yep, isn't that a hoot?! I just could not believe why they would not have used an Aluminum one, (other than weight, which was probably why).

 

 

 

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Wow, so I guess all those cuts and fins in the heads are aesthetics…

Can’t wait to see what comes of this build!

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Thanks for the tear down, cant wait for the re-build!

Would it be possible to re-flash the 16f616 chip to create a driver with the ramping ui that you prefer?

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I would enjoy seeing lumens or lux plotted against time on high and turbo for this light (obviously Justin’s is no longer intact)
I wonder what the risk is for LED overheating damage, since the chip is not supposed to get over 150ºC

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Thank you for the teardown.

This light was on my "buy" list, and now seeing what you show... I will be passing on it.

It's a real disappointment that for all the aesthetics, and marketing, inside the light has such a glaring flaw.

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Here's a photo of the body tube. I can see why they do not have a shelf in it for the "heat sink". The body was bored for the AA batteries and there wasn't enough meat left to make a shelf. Also, when the final ID was cut for the pill, it was done off center and might have been better if it had been centered.

body1a

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Seems more hidden flaws are coming out. I was really considering getting one too.

whokilledJR
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Bort wrote:
I would enjoy seeing lumens or lux plotted against time on high and turbo for this light (obviously Justin’s is no longer intact) I wonder what the risk is for LED overheating damage, since the chip is not supposed to get over 150ºC

If you go to the other forum selfbuilt has done some graphs and the lux/lumens seem to regulate, so it seems the current setup works. The only time there appears to be a reduction in light due to heat is at the very start before the turbo steps down. If it was properly heatsinked there would probably be no need for a step down on turbo mode.

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Old-Lumens wrote:
Yes, that little pad measuring 35mm diameter and 2mm thick is the ONLY heat sink in this darned light! It sits on a PLASTIC spacer and nowhere does it touch the outer walls. There is no real heat sink and for all their hype, Nitecore is no better than the rest of the Mfgs overseas. Simply put, it sucks.

Man, that really sucks in a huge way! This might be the first light to have worse heat sinking than a P60. Thanks for being so determined in tearing your new light apart to expose nitecores dirty little secrets so the rest of us can avoid them. Im sure you’ll perform your usual magic and come up with something truly amazing. At least they didnt use blue locktite. In practice, Ive found that red seems to release with less heat/torque.

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djozz wrote:

Thanks for the tear down OL. Nice to see the inside, and great pictures too. (I do miss the introductory theme song though, something with tear downs of beautifull things?

Maybe this will serve until the mod plan comes together . . .

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It certainly does look like very poorly thought out heatsinking.. One thing I can think of to put a good spin on it is that perhaps it is actually well thought out heatsinking and that they have done computer modelling/testing to ensure that that contact area is in fact enough to get heat out. It’s quite a wide circumference so may appear smaller overall than it is.

This is selfbuilt’s runtime graph, and it looks like that there isn’t any output loss over the long period after the heatsink would be saturated. So maybe heatsinking is adequate afterall.

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RedForest UK wrote:
It certainly does look like very poorly thought out heatsinking.. One thing I can think of to put a good spin on it is that perhaps it is actually well thought out heatsinking and that they have done computer modelling/testing to ensure that that contact area is in fact enough to get heat out. It's quite a wide circumference so may appear smaller overall than it is. !{width:60%}http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff97/selfbuilt/2013/SX25A6-HiNiMH.gif! This is selfbuilt's runtime graph, and it looks like that there isn't any output loss over the long period after the heatsink would be saturated. So maybe heatsinking is adequate afterall.

That's why I included the suggestion that maybe we just get too worked up over cooling on these lights. I, for one have no means of testing how well a light gets rid of heat, so the way I do them may very well be total overkill. Maybe Nitecore did a bunch of engineering on it, maybe not. Possibly it ended up being the only way they could do it and make the light the way they wanted as far as size and weight, so they accepted what they could do with the design they had. I don't know, I'm not an engineer, just an old guy playing around with lights. It's up to y'all to figure out what is right and wrong and draw your own conclusions from it, as many of you have already and it's good to see the opinions of others.

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Whatever the engineering intent was behind the light, its still very bold of you to be the one to crack it open. IMO, you took some great risks to your wallet in doing so. Again, THANK YOU for sharing! :bigsmile:

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I never liked that light because it uses stack of AA batteries but THIS, this is just sad and disappointing and all that from company that was giving as crap here about prices, Nitecore shame on you, I was eyeballing TM26 but after this I wouldn't give a 100 bucks for it...

Thanks for this revealing Old-Lumens, I hope you will repost this on CPF also, people have a right to know what are the paying for...

 

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Old-Lumens wrote:

RedForest UK wrote:
It certainly does look like very poorly thought out heatsinking.. One thing I can think of to put a good spin on it is that perhaps it is actually well thought out heatsinking and that they have done computer modelling/testing to ensure that that contact area is in fact enough to get heat out. It’s quite a wide circumference so may appear smaller overall than it is. This is selfbuilt’s runtime graph, and it looks like that there isn’t any output loss over the long period after the heatsink would be saturated. So maybe heatsinking is adequate afterall.

That’s why I included the suggestion that maybe we just get too worked up over cooling on these lights. I, for one have no means of testing how well a light gets rid of heat, so the way I do them may very well be total overkill. Maybe Nitecore did a bunch of engineering on it, maybe not. Possibly it ended up being the only way they could do it and make the light the way they wanted as far as size and weight, so they accepted what they could do with the design they had. I don’t know, I’m not an engineer, just an old guy playing around with lights. It’s up to y’all to figure out what is right and wrong and draw your own conclusions from it, as many of you have already and it’s good to see the opinions of others.


perhaps you can talk pilot into doing a thermal analysis on it, but i would assume even if its adequate as is the lumen sag would be huge, or the circuitry just adds more power to compensate for the poor design

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