Red and White LEDs and Drivers

Flashlight Modding and DIY Parts
1

Hello Guys,

I have been around these type forums for a fair while, reading and reading. not always understanding but trying to.

Drivers have me stumped.

My Chrome favorites is now another 50+ sites bigger. To dam addictive these flash lights.

I love being in my shed (Man Cave) playing around making things, most the time its braking them but hay! I try. he he!

One of my recent purchases is a Small Sun T13 (2x 18650 batts)

Crelant Collimator AS Head

A few different LEDs on stars

Loads of drivers as i dont know what im doing so its trial and error, Mostly Error.

Why is it i can put just about any white LED star on to the Small Sun T13 driver and it works, but a red chip on a star will got dull on high mode and then get brighter on the mid mode.

All im trying to do at the moment is have a Red Led on a driver, 3 mode would be great but im not going to be fussy yet.

I have ordered a T20 single 18650 torch as well, the collimator fits this two. the reason i have is because there seams to be more information on single battery mods.

i have 3 different red leds here. cree and osram reds.

What im trying to achieve, apart from understanding drivers a little more, is a good thrower, which i have the metal work sorted. i would like red led and a white led. i will, if i have to, make a pill to fit the T13 and it has this side button it makes it a little harder to buy the read rolled drop ins. i am happy to do away with the side button and put a standard type driver in.

is it possible to have a red led running on a single 18650 battery but if an extension is added i can run it a little better with 2 x 18650 batts. bit like the night master 800 (deerelight)

I would like to run a white led as well so if need be i can make a dummy 18650 battery so it runs on one.

sorry for the strange ramblings, so much going on in the head and im not the best at putting it to words.hehe.

thanks for reading

All the best

Phil

2

Which RED LED’s and Drivers have you tried? It almost sounds like you’re either 1) severely over-driving the red LED on high causing it to dim out due to intense heat or 2) using a linear driver that can’t handle the massive voltage drop from a LiIon to the Vf of a red LED.

PPtk

3

Yes, would be interesting what parts exactly you are using.
(A fresh cell and the low forward voltage of an red LED might bring even a rugged 7135 close to thermal shutdown in ok operation conditions. A flashligt driver board is pretty much bad operation contitions. :smiley: )

Does the red LED starts dimmer on high than on med, or takes it a while, to get dim?
If it takes a while, how long would that be? A handfull of seconds, or minutes?

4

OMG, that was quick work on the replied. thanks gents.

The drivers are the stock drivers that come with the few touches i have, at the moment,

So its an ultrafire z5 2x18650 batts
and the Small sun T13

Also i have taken the star off http://dx.com/p/cree-r2-drop-in-1-mode-led-module-3-7v-18v-26-5mm-x-29mm-11836 and swapped to a red. didnt work.

and a DX driver, http://dx.com/p/18v-5w-cree-circuit-board-for-flashlights-16-8mm-5-5mm-26110 this one didnt work either.

I m playing at the moment and not really understanding the whole driver/LED thing. so im buying, breaking and then rebuying different.

i have a few drivers on way as well for the 2x18650 batts but there on the slow boat.

the Oslon ssl80 light red was the one i have been using as i didnt want to mess any more up as they take for ever to arrive hehe.

CREE XP-E N3 on Star PCB Cree XPERED-L1-R2-N3 on Star PCB
OSRAM Oslon SSL 80 red on Star Oslon SSL 80 LRCP7P-JRJT (JS)
OSRAM Oslon SSL 80 red on Star Oslon SSL 80 LHCP7P-2T3T (3T)

bought from led-tech.de

I have changed the led on the T13 to a Cree XR-E R2 (WG) Emitter on Premium Star. i just machined up a washer to make the star sit central as it is smalle than the stock t13 one. made a big differance on the throw, seams a lot tighter, im taking it is the small size of the LED doing that. when i shine the touch on a light background, about 10 feet away i have a funny firey flame type effect around the LED but i can get a nice tight throw. the LED is almost in focus. this is a white LED.

to answer the red led question. on all the drivers i have tried the oslan ssl-80 with, i get a strong light on the high mod of the driver but after 2 seconds in dims to glow. then when i click the medium it starts on medium and after 2 seconds the intensity builds, i switch of after a second or 2 as i dont want to totally blow the LED

Thanks again guys

All the best

Phil.

5

hello phil and welcome to BLF.
pilotPTK is absolutely correct the driver in the t-13 is overdriving the red emitter creating so much heat that the light output drops very quickly upon start up. ask me how i know.

I don’t have any experience with the oslon red emitter you mention but i do with the cree xpe red. i looked at the data sheet for the oslon and it does not look that much different than the cree xpe.

not too technical:
if your handy with a soldering iron there are a few things you can do to make the original driver work in the t-13 with red emitters. remove the driver from the light housing. you will see two resistors labeled R220. remove one of these resistors. this will put you in the ball park for the proper drive current for red emitters. i usually get .48~~.49 Amps at the tailcap and .8~~.9 amps at the emitter with fully charged panasonic 3400’s. this is well in the safe zone for a red xpe or your oslon on an aluminum star fixed to the light with some sort of thermal epoxy. i have used arcitc alumina epoxy in the past with decent results. it seems to hold up to the recoil of gun use quite well. makes removing the star very difficult though. and use it sparingly too much becomes an insulator instead of conductor of heat. screwing the star to light body is a better way to go. there are a few build threads here on BLF on the t-13 use the search box to find them. here is one of mine small sun ZY-t13:driver swap, RED XP-E P3, reflector and aspheric test results.BEAMSHOTS ADDED

in the t-20 7135 based drivers do work well. somwhere between 1 and 1.4A works good. at 1.4A there is a little sag in light output at start up but not bad. a few build threads on BLF for those lights too.

i also have several t-20’s and two crelant heads and none screw together. i know people who have made it work but i havn’t been able to.

6

Hello Kevin,

Thank you for the reply, it looks like you know where im going and coming from haha. Top man, loads of help there.

The T13, i have soldered a .22 resistor to the top R220, just because im running a white led at the moment and i wanted the show off factor with a few friends, it worked, i have 4 others all wanting now. haha.

I was going to remove the top R220 and replace with a 10ohm pot to make it adjustable but when i went to my cheap multi meter i only have 10a on it so not get the same readings as others are, i think they were using 20a. i dont know if this makes a difference but when i took a reading from the base cap i was getting 1.51 after i has added one 0.22 res.

I have mad a red torch. went out lastnight for a look around just to test the lens and distances 300 meters not a problem. with a scope i dont know yet.
it is running on 12v at the moment as i had a 12v driver, not the best as it is the one with 2 legs that it used in low volt down lighting. works ok as a test bed.

I have machine a pill to sit in the two halves, the ideas came from marky and lardylight but have used what i have at hand in the shed.
once the new T20 turns up i will work out what im doing on the rifles. Ideally i think a small red to work with the scope and then something for in the hand to searching.

just thinking out loud here, if i remove the stock driver on the T13 and the LED, i could machine out the pill to take a P60as the reflector is a tad bigger than the star. 25mm. i could then just use a P60 drop in. I like to tinker but the drivers are my downfall.

Question on drivers. this is my take just to give an idea on why im getting it wrong.
over all size im not worried about yet.
I need to pick the batteries im going to use, say 18650. do i need to worry about the output, Amps, of different makes, IE: 2100 or as you said 3400.
once i have the output volts i need to look at the input of the driver. so 7.4v for 2x 18650 batts.
modes im not worried about yet.
then i need to look at the LED i wish to use. Is it the forward volt i need to be looking at, say 2.1v or do i need to look at its max amps as well. the cree i think was 350-1000max.
thats the bit that confuses me in selecting a driver that works.

Is it the same for an LED as it is for us. Volts will hurt but the amps will kill.

one more, How to i read forward Amp out the driver. i think you said ‘at the head’

Sorry for all the questions, im really trying not to ask but im flummoxed at the moment.

All the best

Phil.

7

Oh My, I have just looked at your build, that is way way beyond me and my capablilities. I wouldnt even know where to start

Im a bit of a side note i ask a gent on CPF,vinhnguyen54, what LED for the red light in the nightmaster and a driver.

the LED he pointed me at was Cree XPERDO-L1-R250-00AOL 350mAh 610nm. this is red orange range. http://uk.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Cree-Inc/XPERDO-L1-R250-00A01/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvu8NZDyZ4K0XH2R%252bfqtFJN

and this driver http://kaidomain.com/product/details.S009736 to work on the 2x18650 batts. these are on the slow boat so just waiting for themto drop on mat.

Only down side is the big postage costs for the small LED price tag. think i will have to order 20 and split the costs with anyone else that wants.

All the best

Phil.

8

You can get a red xp-e with free shipping from here :slight_smile:
http://intl-outdoor.com/cree-xpe-red-led-16mm-mcpcb-p-597.html

9

Thank you. Good find. Only thing they haven’t is the 610nm red/orange xpe. Only two places I have found them and that is chip only. I can flow solder onto a star but to pay £6 a chip then £12 postage makes it a b.bitter pill to swallow for.my tight wallet. Haha.

I have just gone and sucked the R220 result off the board. Made a brass washer to hold the 21mm star in place. The old one was 25mm. Worked a treat thanks Kevin. Runs well. Think I need batteries as mine are running at half of what your getting. I now have to machine the inside where the star sits as the focus on the crelant is on its last thread. I need to knock off 3.75mm. Looks like a custom pill needs to be made now. Unless some has a good idea.

Thanks again gents. I wish I had joined weeks ago. Learnt more off here I. The last 3 days than all the other places put together. Top forum.

Thank you

Phil.

10

i have not experimented with the red-orange wavelength emitters. not sure how the 610Nm wavelength would affect the eyes of a fox or coyote.

the 625-630Nm wavelength is what most guys are using here in the states.

take a look at the Vf vs. drive current graph in the data sheets. that will shed some light on the situation. a few guys here on the forum are using ohms law to calculate what they need for current sense resistors. the only problem that it does not take into account that there is a range that the Vf of each emitter falls into.

overdriving the led above the manufacturers specs is quite common. but there is a point of diminishing return. there are plenty of modders here on BLF that like to run things on the bleeding edge of sanity and thats cool because you don’t know how far you can push the limit if you don’t try. for me run time and reliability come into play. especially when you are hunting in the middle of the night trying to make clean ethical kills on game animals. xpe’s on aluminum stars in most lights will be OK at 1-1.2A better heatsinking=more drive current, also to point.

i just remove one r220 then set up a proportion to figure the sense resistor. i purchased an assortment of 0805 resistors from fasttech. you can mix and match different resistors to fine tune the output. final resistance for resistors in parallel is product over sum. it usually only takes one or two tries to get the final amp draw where you need it. the pot idea is the best solution. you will need the 20A selection on the dmm to measure it.

panasonic 2900,3100,3400 protected batteries are your best bet. sanyo 2600 protected are an excellent choice also. be careful with the sanyo’s there is a ur18650zt version out there that have a higher charge voltage than most li-ion batteries and unless you have a hobby charger you can’t charge them to full capacity.

with the right combination of batteries and resistors you will be getting the most out of the t13 and red emitters.

i really like your custom pill idea for the t13. i would not have thought of that. please post a build thread with lots of pictures of your build. i have been following some torch builds and nightvision builds from the folks in the UK, they are much more advanced at night hunting illumination than we are here in the states.

by the way i am using a headlamp modified with a red emitter for hands free scanning during predator hunting. i think this what fox hunters in the UK call spotting. works great leaves your hands free to maneuver the rifle and operate the gun light. and there is much less movement from the hunter reducing the chance of spooking game.

11

Lamping wise it has been a two man job. Light force 170 and a lithium 22amp battery. On foot with quad shoot sticks. Very easy to make and very stable from a standing shot. Almost as good as prone on a Harris.

I’m going to test the torch tonight with the res mod you gave me. When the new T 20 gets here I will work it out on what I’m keeping

Any ideas on a 12v drive for a red led and maybe one for the 2x18650 batteries. I would live to make a custom scope mounted red led and then keep the t20 for a spotter.

Thanks again

Kind regards

Phil.

12

the only driver for 2x18650 that i have used is the taskled lflex. great driver, alittle pricey but retains the side switch. still experimenting with other drivers can’t make a recommendation at this time.

i am in the process of completing a shorty 1x18650 version of the t13 which will be able to use 7135 drivers

13

You should probably mention that product over sum ONLY works for exactly two resistors. If you’re trying to calculate the total resistance of more than two resistors in parallel, you must use the slightly more complicated formula. I suppose you could also use multiple iterations of parallel sum, but that gets to be a pain pretty quickly.

This works for as many resistors in parallel as your calculator can accommodate. Just keep adding them in pattern.

PPtk

14

This should work good with both 2x18650 and 12V source https://www.fasttech.com/products/1105800
Current is a bit conservative though.
Bought them myself to use with single 18650 but it didn’t work because to low voltage :frowning:

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just ordered. thank you.