Got my Shocker - a comparison... plus a question

86 posts / 0 new
Last post

Pages

ohaya
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 6 days ago
Joined: 03/16/2013 - 19:01
Posts: 5332
Location: US
Got my Shocker - a comparison... plus a question

Hi,

I received my BTU Shocker this afternoon, and after “wrestling” with the battery carrier, got it working.

So, next thing, try it with my lux meter, with another light, my “shorty” STL-V6 (XP-G2, DD, now with a new UCL/p lens):

Shocker: 77527 lux 1m (6900 lux 3.352m) – 3xEfest IMR 18650
Shorty STL-V6: 64494 lux 1m (5740 lux 3.352m) – 1xKK 26650

Does that look about right for the Shocker (BTU driver)?

Also, I noticed that the O-ring inside the Shocker bezel is kind of messed up. Part of it is visible (looks like a “worm”) on the flat part of the reflector. Before I try to fix that, does the bezel ring just unscrew and then re-arrange the O-ring?

Edited by: ohaya on 06/18/2013 - 17:25
rdrfronty
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 9 months ago
Joined: 05/05/2012 - 11:45
Posts: 938
Location: Texas

The bezel does simply unscrew, so no problem getting to that Orin’s that way. Your numbers are actually VERY low for a BTU. I’ve never heard of a CW being under 100k. I’ve tested one stock at 119K and one at 125k. You might want to increase your distance you are measuring it at, but I still don’t think it will make up the difference that yours is lacking.
Not sure what’s up.

Dale
Dale's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 11 months ago
Joined: 10/19/2012 - 07:26
Posts: 3188
Location: WV

My BTU is hitting aroung 130,000 on the lux meter…

Slim Pickens
Slim Pickens's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 1 day ago
Joined: 04/28/2012 - 19:50
Posts: 1244
Location: Lehigh Valley

Makes me winder if your meter is under-reading? I have a feeling that if the DD’d and dedomed XP-G2 is on copper (Sinkpad/Noctigon) it would be reading north of 100k based on what I’ve read from Tom E’s results.

ohaya
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 6 days ago
Joined: 03/16/2013 - 19:01
Posts: 5332
Location: US

The lux reading is the main reason I was posting. I’d seen that folks were saying 100K+ lux.

I was taking my readings at 11 feet (3.352) from the meter, then:

lux @ 1m = (distance squared) * (my lux reading)

I got that “formula” from another older thread I had.

Is that right?

BTW, I got the Shocker with the “BTU Driver”, and not the “DRY driver”. I also ordered a DRY driver with the same order, but it’s not being used currently.

I was just out with my shorty STL-V6, and the BTU Shocker, hitting a treeline that’s ~100 meters away from our front porch, and both the STL-V6 and the Shocker hit the treeline, about the same brightness. The Shocker beam at that distance is quite a bit larger, but, while the Shocker beam may be a bit brighter than the STL-V6’s, the brightnesses looks kind of similar.

Tom E
Tom E's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 months 1 week ago
Joined: 08/19/2012 - 08:23
Posts: 15065
Location: LI NY

For 3 IMR's, the Shocker should be in the 130 kcd range for sure - 77 kcd is definitely low. Did you hunt around for a while to find the absolute highest reading? Think some of the meters capture the highest measurement automatically. Also, 3.3 meters is a little on the short side but I get pretty good results at 4.3 meters, but takes a lot of hunting around that hotspot.

I'm thinking you are seeing the difference you are measuring (close), but both measurements are lower than expected.

ohaya
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 6 days ago
Joined: 03/16/2013 - 19:01
Posts: 5332
Location: US

Well, I figured out one problem… stupidity :)…

I didn’t realize that with the BTU driver, there are FOUR modes. I think the earlier measurements were on the “high” mode, rather than “turbo”.

I just did a couple more, on “turbo”, and got 8740 – 9000 @ 3.352 meters, which comes up to 101123 on the high end.

But that still seems low?

I’ll have to find another spot where I can get 4.3 meters range.

And yes, I had the meter in Max mode, and moved the beam around to try to capture the maximum, which was the number(s) I reported.

relic38
relic38's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 11 months ago
Joined: 12/28/2012 - 00:39
Posts: 3390
Location: Toronto, Canada

I would not measure the BTU at one meter. Back off to three or four meters and calculate it back to one meter. Higher powered lights need to be measured from further away to be more accurate.
http://www.ledrise.com/shop_content.php?coID=18
Edit: Now I see your latest post. Duh. Big Smile

Welcome the night.

My Reviews   My Mods    http://budgetlightforum.com/search?

ohaya
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 6 days ago
Joined: 03/16/2013 - 19:01
Posts: 5332
Location: US
relic38 wrote:
I would not measure the BTU at one meter. Back off to three or four meters and calculate it back to one meter. Higher powered lights need to be measured from further away to be more accurate. http://www.ledrise.com/shop_content.php?coID=18

relic,

That’s what I did… measured at 3.352 meters (11 feet), then calculated back to 1 meter.

Edit: Our posts crossed each other :)…

Slewflash
Slewflash's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 4 months ago
Joined: 07/05/2012 - 08:43
Posts: 1977
Location: Australia, Melbourne
ohaya wrote:
relic38 wrote:
I would not measure the BTU at one meter. Back off to three or four meters and calculate it back to one meter. Higher powered lights need to be measured from further away to be more accurate. http://www.ledrise.com/shop_content.php?coID=18

relic,

That’s what I did… measured at 3.352 meters (11 feet), then calculated back to 1 meter.

Edit: Our posts crossed each other :)…

Try measuring from 8 meters or further. I measure mine from 13 meters just to make sure everything is accurate, multiple emitter or single emitter.

Slewflash 

ohaya
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 6 days ago
Joined: 03/16/2013 - 19:01
Posts: 5332
Location: US
Slewflash wrote:
ohaya wrote:
relic38 wrote:
I would not measure the BTU at one meter. Back off to three or four meters and calculate it back to one meter. Higher powered lights need to be measured from further away to be more accurate. http://www.ledrise.com/shop_content.php?coID=18

relic,

That’s what I did… measured at 3.352 meters (11 feet), then calculated back to 1 meter.

Edit: Our posts crossed each other :)…

Try measuring from 8 meters or further. I measure mine from 13 meters just to make sure everything is accurate, multiple emitter or single emitter.

Hi,

I haven’t been able to get an 8 meter area yet, but I did find an area of about 6.4 meters (21 feet), and here’s what I got:

Short STL-V6 DD – w/UCP/p, cleaned/improved thermal compound 2 x Efest 18350, partly charged 1629 66891
BTU Shocker BTU Driver 3 x Efest 18650, partly charged 2378 97647

The last numbers in each row are the @1m calculations.

So, these seem to be almost the same as previous?

Edit: Also tested my HD2010 w/EAST-092 driver, with this same setup:

HD2010 EAST-092/Stock Driver 1 x KK 26650, fully charged 1113 45703

i.e., ~45.7K lux @ 1m.

Tom E
Tom E's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 months 1 week ago
Joined: 08/19/2012 - 08:23
Posts: 15065
Location: LI NY

Just got in a black HD2010 from TMART, here's what I got:

  On a fresh TrustFire 5000 26650, approximately 4.0 amps (readings vary): lumens: 952 at start, 887 at 30 secs, throw: 58 kcd

So, could be your HD2010 readings are low as well, because a KK with the HD2010 should be doing 5-6 amps maybe.

ohaya
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 6 days ago
Joined: 03/16/2013 - 19:01
Posts: 5332
Location: US
Tom E wrote:

Just got in a black HD2010 from TMART, here’s what I got:

  On a fresh TrustFire 5000 26650, approximately 4.0 amps (readings vary): lumens: 952 at start, 887 at 30 secs, throw: 58 kcd

So, could be your HD2010 readings are low as well, because a KK with the HD2010 should be doing 5-6 amps maybe.

I have a TF 26650 also. With my HD2010, tailcap on high is ~4.22 amps. With the TF battery, I get:

1107 at 21.5’ 47539 at 1m (re-measured/re-adjusted distance).

Edit: The above a luxes. Is that the same as KCD?

Tom E
Tom E's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 months 1 week ago
Joined: 08/19/2012 - 08:23
Posts: 15065
Location: LI NY

Yes - 1 lux at 1 meter is 1 candela, technically, we should always quote candela units. kcd is short for 1,000 candela. when someone says lux, you should always assume they are just reading it off the meter, while candela puts it in perspective to a distance which has a standard definition that can be compared and rated at.

That result is again strange - normally a KK ICR should do better than a TF 5000, but the KK INR's are higher resistance than KK ICR's. I got a couple of each, though regretted buying the INR's -- didn't learn about the difference until after I bought them.

ohaya
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 6 days ago
Joined: 03/16/2013 - 19:01
Posts: 5332
Location: US
Tom E wrote:

Yes – 1 lux at 1 meter is 1 candela, technically, we should always quote candela units. kcd is short for 1,000 candela. when someone says lux, you should always assume they are just reading it off the meter, while candela puts it in perspective to a distance which has a standard definition that can be compared and rated at.

That result is again strange – normally a KK ICR should do better than a TF 5000, but the KK INR’s are higher resistance than KK ICR’s. I got a couple of each, though regretted buying the INR’s — didn’t learn about the difference until after I bought them.

Hi,

I agree, it’s strange, but this is the same meter that I used in that other thread with the same HD2010 (although I was using the Efest IMR with the earlier test). I’ve been using the HD2010 as a kind of “benchmark”, since the lux readings for an HD2010 with EAST-092 seems to be fairly well-known.

The distance is, I think, accurate, as I’ve measured it several times.

The only other difference from the earlier testing is that I’m now testing in a slightly different “environment”, so that I could get the new distance.

Earlier, I had the meter attached to the front of our fridge, but we got a new SS fridge last week, so now it’s mounted on the front of the SS fridge (rather than a white one).

Could the meter battery be low and would that cause lower lux readings? The meter’s still fairly new, and I haven’t really used it much though :(…

Puzzling…

Edit: Tom E, I found the earlier thread/post:

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/21776#comment-397830

In that, you mentioned:

Quote:
the HD2010 comes out to 26.5 kcd, should be in the 40’s if you get a 3 amps or above tailcap reading.

and it appears that I am getting 40Klux/Kcd at 1m with the HD2010 at ~4.22 amps?

If that’s correct, then it appears that the Shocker lux I measured should be “correct”?

Edit 2: Did you already mod the HD2010 so that you got the 57Kcd?

dazed1
dazed1's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 1 week ago
Joined: 05/31/2013 - 11:16
Posts: 1557

Hi ohaya, sorry to hear for your possible issues.

Can you do me a little favor and see if there are AR lens on your Shocker? if it has, the glass should have bluish/green tint.

Thanks.

Fenix TK61 MOD> resistor, transistors, copper heatsink, Artic Cooling MX4, dedome, 3A > 5.7A ~ 1700 lumens > (600.000cd)

ohaya
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 6 days ago
Joined: 03/16/2013 - 19:01
Posts: 5332
Location: US

dazed1 wrote:
Hi ohaya, sorry to hear for your possible issues.

Can you do me a little favor and see if there are AR lens on your Shocker? if it has, the glass should have bluish/green tint.

Thanks.

That’s a good question. With the light on, looking at the lens from the “side”, there is a bluish tint, but the lens is kind of really dirty. I haven’t tried to clean it yet.

dazed1
dazed1's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 1 week ago
Joined: 05/31/2013 - 11:16
Posts: 1557

Hmm wonder if this pic helps? AFAIK on Shocker is less bluish…and you should see it when its powered off.

Or this,

And this,

Fenix TK61 MOD> resistor, transistors, copper heatsink, Artic Cooling MX4, dedome, 3A > 5.7A ~ 1700 lumens > (600.000cd)

ohaya
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 6 days ago
Joined: 03/16/2013 - 19:01
Posts: 5332
Location: US

Thanks for the pics. My lens doesn’t look anything like those. With the light off, the lens looks basically clear… no color/tint.

Hmm. Time to PM RIC :(…

Also, would a non-AR lens make that much difference on the lux?

ohaya
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 6 days ago
Joined: 03/16/2013 - 19:01
Posts: 5332
Location: US

Hi,

Can I ask the following: Has anyone (other than me) gotten a BTU Shocker (with the BTU driver) that is producing less than the 130Klux that others have mentioned?

dazed1
dazed1's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 1 week ago
Joined: 05/31/2013 - 11:16
Posts: 1557

ohaya wrote:
Thanks for the pics. My lens doesn’t look anything like those. With the light off, the lens looks basically clear… no color/tint.

Hmm. Time to PM RIC :(…

Also, would a non-AR lens make that much difference on the lux?

AFAIK the lens can hold off around 100-*150 lumens max.* which is very hard to notice.

BTW Ric will send you the replacement lens for free if you got older model, relax…

IMO you got some problems with the meter – or maybe driver problem….lens cant make big difference.

Fenix TK61 MOD> resistor, transistors, copper heatsink, Artic Cooling MX4, dedome, 3A > 5.7A ~ 1700 lumens > (600.000cd)

ohaya
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 6 days ago
Joined: 03/16/2013 - 19:01
Posts: 5332
Location: US

Another test, this time, without the lens.

The same distance, 21.5 feet, and got 107361 lux.

Jim

Edit: When I removed the bezel ring and lens, I noticed that the diameter of the lens is quite a lot smaller than ID of the bezel ring. Is that “normal” for a Shocker?

dazed1
dazed1's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 1 week ago
Joined: 05/31/2013 - 11:16
Posts: 1557

Sorry, but i still dont have my Shocker, i ordered last night.

I’m answering this questions based on the info i read from Shocker owners and i’m confident to say its correct, but about bezel ring etc i’m not sure.

Maybe this will help?

Fenix TK61 MOD> resistor, transistors, copper heatsink, Artic Cooling MX4, dedome, 3A > 5.7A ~ 1700 lumens > (600.000cd)

ohaya
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 6 days ago
Joined: 03/16/2013 - 19:01
Posts: 5332
Location: US

Hi,

BTW, in this review:

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/15966

it showed in the graph in the review that lux was less than 100K?

Also, the lens on mine, tint-wise, looks like the one in the video above, i.e., pretty much clear. I’ve PM’ed RIC.

dazed1
dazed1's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 1 week ago
Joined: 05/31/2013 - 11:16
Posts: 1557

Yes, the Shocker in the video is old revision, without AR lens.

Ask Ric to send you free replacement lens, i hope mine comes with AR…..or i will be pissed, because all versions since may, should come with AR lens.

How long did it take for yours shipping btw?

Fenix TK61 MOD> resistor, transistors, copper heatsink, Artic Cooling MX4, dedome, 3A > 5.7A ~ 1700 lumens > (600.000cd)

ohaya
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 6 days ago
Joined: 03/16/2013 - 19:01
Posts: 5332
Location: US

dazed1 wrote:
Yes, the Shocker in the video is old revision, without AR lens.

Ask Ric to send you free replacement lens, i hope mine comes with AR…..or i will be pissed, because all versions since may, should come with AR lens.

How long did it take for yours shipping btw?

Hi,

Actually, I’m (again) not sure if it is AR or not. When I had the lens off, I noticed that the reflection of lights (some new CREE lights) was definitely purplish:

Also, per the link I posted to the’s review, he was only getting ~100Klux, so I’m not sure why his (apparently) and mine are at 100Klux, whereas others reporting ~130Klux. Again, this is with the BTU driver… wondering if the 130Klux is because of the DRY driver?

Mine shipped via Fedex (was surprised), and took only about 5 days shipping, I think, to the east coast U.S.

Edit:

P.S. Suggestions for cleaning the lens? Also the front/flat part of the reflector has some marks, because of the messed up O-ring placement originally. Can I just wipe that front/flat part of the reflector safely?

dazed1
dazed1's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 1 week ago
Joined: 05/31/2013 - 11:16
Posts: 1557

clear the lens with water only for now, and soft clot which does not leave marks.

Then shine a light into the lens from different angles and see if the glow appears.

No, Dry driver is not the reason i think.

I think you can wipe it out, safely, just be gentle.

Fenix TK61 MOD> resistor, transistors, copper heatsink, Artic Cooling MX4, dedome, 3A > 5.7A ~ 1700 lumens > (600.000cd)

ohaya
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 6 days ago
Joined: 03/16/2013 - 19:01
Posts: 5332
Location: US

dazed1 wrote:
clear the lens with water only for now, and soft clot which does not leave marks.

Then shine a light into the lens from different angles and see if the glow appears.

No, Dry driver is not the reason i think.

I think you can wipe it out, safely, just be gentle.

I’ll give the lens wash a try.

Do you have a lux meter? If so, can you post your measurements when your Shocker arrives?

Thanks,
Jim

Tom E
Tom E's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 months 1 week ago
Joined: 08/19/2012 - 08:23
Posts: 15065
Location: LI NY

For the HD2010 I recently measured, it's totally stock and got 57 kcd, but it may be a really good one. Your HD2010 readings may be ok, 40's is more typical, and why the KK did lower than the TF 5000 could be because of the extremely high amps you are getting that's generating heat sag, resulting in lower readings. Generally I stay away from 26650 batteries in a EAST-092 driver light.

=the='s Shocker is a T6 3C version, so it will under perform compared to a U2 CW light, so his measurements are ok.

ohaya
Offline
Last seen: 11 months 6 days ago
Joined: 03/16/2013 - 19:01
Posts: 5332
Location: US
Tom E wrote:

For the HD2010 I recently measured, it’s totally stock and got 57 kcd, but it may be a really good one. Your HD2010 readings may be ok, 40’s is more typical, and why the KK did lower than the TF 5000 could be because of the extremely high amps you are getting that’s generating heat sag, resulting in lower readings. Generally I stay away from 26650 batteries in a EAST-092 driver light.

=the=‘s Shocker is a T6 3C version, so it will under perform compared to a U2 CW light, so his measurements are ok.

So now that you say that, I’m wondering if maybe the reason for the 100Klux I’m getting is that the one I got may have T6s (I ordered CW on the Shocker I got)? Here’s what my order details says on the FF site:

Quote:
BTU. Shocker 3xCREE XM-L U2 3×18650 Super Power Flashlight

Is there a way to visually tell what the emitter is on mine?

Tom E
Tom E's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 months 1 week ago
Joined: 08/19/2012 - 08:23
Posts: 15065
Location: LI NY

Only by the tint, can you tell. You should be able to see the difference compared to a 1A - not the direct center spot because that's super bright, but in the spill should be easy to tell.

Pages