H17F - programmable driver with full thermal regulation

262 posts / 0 new
Last post
EasyB
Offline
Last seen: 27 min 4 sec ago
Joined: 03/09/2016 - 15:24
Posts: 2166
Location: Ohio

I had bought another H17F driver to use in another build, so I stuck this extra one in my S2+. I will see what mtnelectronics says about the malfunctioning driver.

EasyB wrote:
So it seems to me like the heat produced by the linear regulators is significantly contributing to the temperature of the driver, causing it to step down quicker in high mode than in FET only mode.

Just to expand on this idea some more: with the LG D1 cell at about 3.9V OC, the current was just under regulation at about 2.8A in mode 22. The current was very close to the regulated value of 2.93A, but the regulators did not have to burn off any extra heat, so the driver temperature stayed lower and thermal regulation did not happen in the first 2 minutes. Then when the cell was charged to 4.15V OC, thermal regulation again happened in about 30 seconds in mode 22.

At close to full charge, a typical high performance cell will provide 3A at around 4V. The 7135 chips then must dissipate 0.45V*3A=1.35W, but this is only 0.17W per chip. This is within specs for the 7135; the data sheet suggests that at dissipation powers above 0.7W, additional heat sinking is required to regulate the junction temperature below 120C.

So the question is: because the temperature sensor is on the driver and not closer to the emitter, is the thermal regulation stepping down the current too much too soon? Maybe so, but it should only be a problem when the cell is close to full charge. Within several minutes at 3A most cells’ voltage will drop much closer to the Vf of the emitter and the regulators won’t have to dissipate as much heat. Then the driver temperature should be much closer to the pill temperature.

I can’t really think of a better way to do it other than have a separate temperature sensor much closer, thermally, to the emitter. What about an IR thermometer on the top of the driver aimed at the bottom of the pill? Smile

EasyB
Offline
Last seen: 27 min 4 sec ago
Joined: 03/09/2016 - 15:24
Posts: 2166
Location: Ohio

I did some testing of the low voltage protection and voltage indicator function. The low voltage protection behaves as the manual says, but the cutoff voltage for mine was 2.8V instead of 3.0V as the manual says. The current dropped, at 2.8V, until it reached 1.4mA, then stayed at that value for many seconds until I stopped monitoring.

Voltage indicator:
10 blinks: 3.86V – 4.00V
9 blinks: 3.70V – 3.85V
8 blinks: 3.60V – 3.70V
7 blinks: 3.44V – 3.60V
6 blinks: 3.30V – 3.43V
5 blinks: 3.19V – 3.30V
4 blinks: 3.08V – 3.19V
3 blinks: 3.00V – 3.08V

It has the capability to blink more than 10 and fewer than 3, these are just the voltage levels I measured closely. This pattern is pretty close to each blink corresponding to 0.1V above 2.8V.

RMM
RMM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 6 months ago
Joined: 07/23/2013 - 13:47
Posts: 4006
Location: USA

Having the sensor on the driver is an obvious compromise, but one I will take for the majority of smaller lights.  I have done them on the pill or body thermal shelf before, and it is not fun wiring those things up inside of a small pill.  

Mountain Electronics : batteries, Noctigon, and much more! What's new? 

Gunga
Gunga's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 35 min ago
Joined: 11/28/2014 - 16:56
Posts: 2022
Location: Vancouver, Canada

I just put this driver into a copper sinner I sold for a friend. Outstanding. I loved the lucidrv drivers I was using before but this is a nice step up.

Insane moonlight mode and direct drive. Double tap mode. Just amazing. Now can we get something in 15mm?

will34
will34's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 hours 56 min ago
Joined: 12/18/2012 - 00:12
Posts: 4070

Build a C8 with the H17F, it’s simply perfect!

Based on the double tap, I deleted turbo from the mode sequence and now I have moon>low>mid (3mA-380mA-1520mA), and double tap to access turbo. Then I set group B to a dummy group and only has low-high (380mA-2150mA) with PID set to 50°C.

electricjelly
electricjelly's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 3 weeks ago
Joined: 08/23/2012 - 03:39
Posts: 601
Location: Los Angeles

I just installed this driver in my triple xpl BLF X6. I’m loving it, its pretty amazing.

I went with low 4.2mA, mid 380mA, high 3040mA, and double tap for even more turbo.

I’m surprised the little fet works so well. I haven’t taken amp readings but the flashlight gets just as bright if not brighter than the MTN-17DDm I just took out and that fet is much larger.

I also lowered the temperature from 60C default to 50C, and turned off memory.

I haven’t decided what to do with the second mode group yet.

This is now my favorite clicky driver.

M4D M4X
M4D M4X's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 4 days ago
Joined: 03/19/2014 - 05:17
Posts: 8821
Location: Austria (GMT + 1)

where is the shop to this?

or do i need to shoot a pm ?

PLEASE NOTE
i do not work in "reviews, deals and codes" for the time being
maybe M4D M4X will return one day, but until then:

THANK YOU FOR YEARS OF YOUR SUPPORT AND FRIENDLY CONTACTS!

RMM
RMM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 6 months ago
Joined: 07/23/2013 - 13:47
Posts: 4006
Location: USA

M4D M4X wrote:
where is the shop to this? or do i need to shoot a pm ?

I imagine DrJones is still selling them, but I don't know for sure.  We also sell them.  

Mountain Electronics : batteries, Noctigon, and much more! What's new? 

Hoop
Hoop's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 8 hours ago
Joined: 12/20/2012 - 05:33
Posts: 1036
Location: Spokane, WA

I ran a thread search and it didn’t come up: can this driver be used with a momentary switch? (E-switch)

LightRider
LightRider's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 5 months ago
Joined: 08/05/2015 - 09:52
Posts: 2007
Location: U.P. MI, USA
Hoop wrote:
I ran a thread search and it didn’t come up: can this driver be used with a momentary switch? (E-switch)

That would be very nice! But unfortunately I don’t think it does.

Hoop
Hoop's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 8 hours ago
Joined: 12/20/2012 - 05:33
Posts: 1036
Location: Spokane, WA

Yes, it is very unfortunate that there are so few options for advanced E-Switch drivers.

This needs to change. To spur this, I’ll post a mod detailing how to easily convert any rear clicky light to an E-switch light using no special tools and commonly available hardware store components.

mattlward
mattlward's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 hours 21 min ago
Joined: 06/19/2015 - 09:20
Posts: 3113
Location: Illinois, USA

I would think that it would be a matter of changes to the firmware of the driver, a couple of trace cuts on the board and the addition of the switch…

EDC rotation:
FW1A, LH351D 4000k (second favorite)
FW3A, LH351D 3500k
FW3A, SST20 FD2 4000k
FW3A, Nichia 4000k sw40 r9080 (favorite light!)
FW3A, Cree XP-L Hi 5A3
Emisar D4V2, SST20 4000k
S2+, XM-L2 T6 4C

RMM
RMM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 6 months ago
Joined: 07/23/2013 - 13:47
Posts: 4006
Location: USA

mattlward wrote:
I would think that it would be a matter of changes to the firmware of the driver, a couple of trace cuts on the board and the addition of the switch...

Why would traces need to be cut?

There are already switch pads on the driver, so the possibility is definitely there.  

Mountain Electronics : batteries, Noctigon, and much more! What's new? 

mattlward
mattlward's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 hours 21 min ago
Joined: 06/19/2015 - 09:20
Posts: 3113
Location: Illinois, USA

I have not looked at the one I have, still waiting on parts to use it. I did not realize there were e-switch contacts already there… Open mouth… insert foot!

EDC rotation:
FW1A, LH351D 4000k (second favorite)
FW3A, LH351D 3500k
FW3A, SST20 FD2 4000k
FW3A, Nichia 4000k sw40 r9080 (favorite light!)
FW3A, Cree XP-L Hi 5A3
Emisar D4V2, SST20 4000k
S2+, XM-L2 T6 4C

Hoop
Hoop's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 8 hours ago
Joined: 12/20/2012 - 05:33
Posts: 1036
Location: Spokane, WA

Just needs a firmware revision? That’s promising.

posternerd
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 3 weeks ago
Joined: 03/05/2016 - 01:16
Posts: 35

I’m very interested in a clicky to e-switch conversion!

Please let us know when you post it.

richnpc
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 1 week ago
Joined: 07/17/2011 - 10:59
Posts: 333
Location: USA

I’m trying to find info about the default settings. I understand there are 2 mode groups, and each can have up to 7 modes (brightness levels).

Can someone tell me the “as shipped” settings, how many modes, and what the brightness levels are.

I see these % levels in the description.

0.05 0.1 0.14 0.2 0.3 0.4 0.6 0.8 1.1 1.5 2 3 5 7 9 13 18 25 35 50 71 100 semi-turbo turbo

giorgoskok
giorgoskok's picture
Offline
Last seen: 22 hours 41 min ago
Joined: 11/13/2015 - 10:46
Posts: 2671
Location: Greece

Is the design / components list / firmware available to create them from scratch ?

LightRider
LightRider's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 5 months ago
Joined: 08/05/2015 - 09:52
Posts: 2007
Location: U.P. MI, USA

richnpc, did you get an answer?
Here is the user guide for this driver.
http://drjones.nerdcamp.net/h17f.html

Gunga
Gunga's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 35 min ago
Joined: 11/28/2014 - 16:56
Posts: 2022
Location: Vancouver, Canada

Hiya. So is it very normal to have big differences in the firefly modes when comparing 3 different circuits? Can the firefly mode work if the single amc7135 channel is damaged?

LSX
LSX's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 days 8 hours ago
Joined: 04/23/2013 - 08:38
Posts: 1455
Location: Perth, Australia

Hi Guys,

I just installed this into my BLF Ti X6 tonight and I am having trouble with the brightness programming.

So I started fresh and deleted all the modes in mode group one, then one by one added modes and set them. I have currently set two modes which are moonlight (step 2) and 380mA (step 16). I have added a third mode and I am trying to set it at 3.04A (step 22) but for some reason when it steps up it does 16 steps, pauses for a moment then does two steps which are significantly brighter which I am assuming are the half turbo and full turbo and then starts stepping down again. It’s like its completely skipping steps 17-22…

Is there something I am doing wrong or has anyone else had this happen?

Cheers,
Tim

EasyB
Offline
Last seen: 27 min 4 sec ago
Joined: 03/09/2016 - 15:24
Posts: 2166
Location: Ohio

LSX wrote:
Hi Guys,

I just installed this into my BLF Ti X6 tonight and I am having trouble with the brightness programming.

So I started fresh and deleted all the modes in mode group one, then one by one added modes and set them. I have currently set two modes which are moonlight (step 2) and 380mA (step 16). I have added a third mode and I am trying to set it at 3.04A (step 22) but for some reason when it steps up it does 16 steps, pauses for a moment then does two steps which are significantly brighter which I am assuming are the half turbo and full turbo and then starts stepping down again. It’s like its completely skipping steps 17-22…

Is there something I am doing wrong or has anyone else had this happen?

Cheers,
Tim

That doesn’t seem right. Were you using a full battery? One simple thing it could be is if you were using a depleted battery, maybe the few highest modes using the linear regs would be very similar in output, then the two highest modes using the FET would be brighter because of the lower voltage drop of the FET.

Firelight2
Firelight2's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 56 min ago
Joined: 04/08/2011 - 15:17
Posts: 4491
Location: California

EasyB wrote:
LSX wrote:
Hi Guys,

I just installed this into my BLF Ti X6 tonight and I am having trouble with the brightness programming.

So I started fresh and deleted all the modes in mode group one, then one by one added modes and set them. I have currently set two modes which are moonlight (step 2) and 380mA (step 16). I have added a third mode and I am trying to set it at 3.04A (step 22) but for some reason when it steps up it does 16 steps, pauses for a moment then does two steps which are significantly brighter which I am assuming are the half turbo and full turbo and then starts stepping down again. It’s like its completely skipping steps 17-22…

Is there something I am doing wrong or has anyone else had this happen?

Cheers,
Tim

That doesn’t seem right. Were you using a full battery? One simple thing it could be is if you were using a depleted battery, maybe the few highest modes using the linear regs would be very similar in output, then the two highest modes using the FET would be brighter because of the lower voltage drop of the FET.

I noticed the same huge jump on the last 2 modes. However, this was when I put the H17F into my Quad XPL HI E14. I assume the jump is because it went from 3 amps to probably 9+ amps in one step.

EasyB
Offline
Last seen: 27 min 4 sec ago
Joined: 03/09/2016 - 15:24
Posts: 2166
Location: Ohio

EasyB wrote:
LSX wrote:
Hi Guys,

I just installed this into my BLF Ti X6 tonight and I am having trouble with the brightness programming.

So I started fresh and deleted all the modes in mode group one, then one by one added modes and set them. I have currently set two modes which are moonlight (step 2) and 380mA (step 16). I have added a third mode and I am trying to set it at 3.04A (step 22) but for some reason when it steps up it does 16 steps, pauses for a moment then does two steps which are significantly brighter which I am assuming are the half turbo and full turbo and then starts stepping down again. It’s like its completely skipping steps 17-22…

Is there something I am doing wrong or has anyone else had this happen?

Cheers,
Tim

That doesn’t seem right. Were you using a full battery? One simple thing it could be is if you were using a depleted battery, maybe the few highest modes using the linear regs would be very similar in output, then the two highest modes using the FET would be brighter because of the lower voltage drop of the FET.

After more thought, this shouldn’t cause the behavior you’re seeing, since modes 17-21 are PWM of the full 3A linear output.

It sounds like there is something wrong with the 8×7135 channel which is modes 17-22.

LSX
LSX's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 days 8 hours ago
Joined: 04/23/2013 - 08:38
Posts: 1455
Location: Perth, Australia

That’s what I’m thinking. The last step before it does the two big jumps is reading at around 380mA so it is definitely only getting to 16 steps, then jumping to half turbo and full turbo.

Using an Efest 35A that’s a bit over 4v at the moment so I don’t think there is a problem there.

RMM
RMM's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 6 months ago
Joined: 07/23/2013 - 13:47
Posts: 4006
Location: USA

Indeed there is a problem with that PWM circuit---it's shorted to ground.  Some of the drivers develop a short between the center 7135 pin (ground) and the PWM via that sits directly underneath it (design error).  Removing the 7135 and then cutting the center pin off fixes the problem.  After I started getting a few reports of the problem I started checking every driver for the issue, and on future drivers that I build I am going to either cut that 7135 leg or insulate it better, so there shouldn't be many, if any, issues going forward.

If any of you experience this problem (I've had a few others report this same issue, but I had them send the driver back because I hadn't figured it out yet) here is the 7135 leg to cut:

You can easily diagnose it by checking for continuity between the PWM pin (right pin) and ground pin (center pin) on the spring side 7135 chips.  

Mountain Electronics : batteries, Noctigon, and much more! What's new? 

LSX
LSX's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 days 8 hours ago
Joined: 04/23/2013 - 08:38
Posts: 1455
Location: Perth, Australia

As usual Richard, you were 100% correct! Thanks for your help. I removed the 7135, cut off the centre leg, added a tiny piece of kapton tape to the board then bent the two remaining pins slightly down so they still had contact even with the kapton tape underneath. Battery back in and all is working perfectly! Thanks again!

LightRider
LightRider's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 5 months ago
Joined: 08/05/2015 - 09:52
Posts: 2007
Location: U.P. MI, USA

Has anyone used this driver with an mtg2? If used on hi, will it regulate to a good usable level? I’m making a light for my grandfather and I don’t want him to have to worry about remembering how to deal with temperature.

LSX
LSX's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 days 8 hours ago
Joined: 04/23/2013 - 08:38
Posts: 1455
Location: Perth, Australia

Correct me if I’m wrong but I didn’t think you could zener mod this driver for use with 6V emitters???

LightRider
LightRider's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 5 months ago
Joined: 08/05/2015 - 09:52
Posts: 2007
Location: U.P. MI, USA
LSX wrote:
Correct me if I’m wrong but I didn’t think you could zener mod this driver for use with 6V emitters???

Idk. I would like to know…

Pages