[07-MAR-2016] Current status of BLF upgrade process

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wight
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ToyKeeper wrote:
sb56637 wrote:
@wight: I wonder how long it’ll be before Apple or Samsung comes out with proximity screen touches where it starts reacting with just a finger hovering over the screen, kind of like with a Wacom drawing tablet?

October 2011. Galaxy Note phone. It has a Wacom tablet screen which does exactly that.
Err, no it doesn’t. The Wacom tablet screen reacts to a Wacom stylus hovering over the screen. sb56637 referred to a sensor which reacts to a finger hoving over the screen…

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

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wight wrote:
The pace at which mobile platforms and apps have advanced has been surprisingly slow …

I blame all the commercial interests which keep reinventing wheels instead of just making the existing tech work on a phone. For example, we had a full Linux desktop working just fine on PDAs in 2001 with Familiar Linux. It could run everything a desktop could run, assuming the screen and storage were big enough. Those were exciting times… until a company called Trolltech stepped in and convinced manufacturers to use their platform instead, a brand new Qt-based thing which had no legacy support. The real applications were dropped and replaced with whatever cheesy “apps” people could pull quickly out of an orifice.

Later, Google got involved and made Android, yet another reinvented wheel with no backward compatibility. It has been much more successful, but to this day it still has only “apps” instead of real, serious programs. And the base platform has been messed with so much it’s not really capable of much compatibility anyway.

More recently there’s big news about the Ubuntu phone finally being able to run desktop apps, because they’re adding an X11 compatibility layer on top of the reinvented wheels. But it basically has to run all those in jails, like virtual machines, instead of working like a traditional desktop. So it still falls short of what the community had built for itself 15 years ago. But at least the screens and hard drives are bigger now.

And in the end, what is the real difference between a notebook/desktop and a phone/tablet? They both have a processing/storage core of some sort, but the desktop has a full screen and keyboard while the tablet does not. The desktop has a full-featured OS with full-featured software, while the tablet is heavily stripped down. And whenever you want to get real work done, it’s important to have real input / output devices and real software… instead of a poor imitation. Maybe phones have been moving slowly because the ceiling is too low. There’s only so much you can do without turning it into a notebook.

Sorry for the long off-topic rant. Just a little frustrated about how much progress we could have made in the past 15 years… but didn’t.

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wight wrote:
Err, no it doesn’t. The Wacom tablet screen reacts to a Wacom stylus hovering over the screen. sb56637 referred to a sensor which reacts to a finger hoving over the screen…

Ah, sorry. I missed the finger. Regardless, it’s a phone with hover functionality. You just have to pull out the included stylus to use that feature.

The synaptic touchpads used on notebooks can sense hovering too, though the drivers are usually tuned to ignore hover input most of the time. If you turn up the sensitivity, though…

For that matter, the Wacom pad at one of my old labs could sense the stylus half a meter above its surface. It was pretty impressive. I was tempted to write something to monitor it to see if I could detect low-flying planes.

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I agree Toykeeper. What has happened to the world though is so few of us are “power users” that we get left out. For example, ask any iPhone user if they can download a file. They will say “uh, probably”. I even asked at a cell phone store. They said yes. Then I said show me. They could not. With the exception of an image, that core functionality is not in iPhone. And nobody has noticed. But for a “power user” downloading a config file or script file off your server and tweaking it, then uploading it is critical.

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Apple is a special case. It’s not a technology company. It’s a fashion company. And although I don’t like Apple, they’re doing their thing well.

As for the rest of the mobile sector, it seems like a simple story of prioritizing short-term profit over long-term progress.

Back to BLF’s software, I think it’s progressing nicely. The upgrade was surprisingly smooth for a major Drupal update, and the remaining tasks are fairly small in a big picture sense.

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Oh, um, I just noticed another little weirdness on this new version. No signatures show up in poll threads. The HTML isn’t even there.

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ToyKeeper wrote:
Apple is a special case. It’s not a technology company. It’s a fashion company. And although I don’t like Apple, they’re doing their thing well.

In that case all hope is futile.

keengeorge
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G'Day SB, smile

 

I have noticed that when someone quotes my post generated with the Advanced Post Editor, extra blank lines are inserted.

For an example Please see Posts #577 & #581 in:

30Q button top - OPEN to public

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/44220?page=11

 

Best Regards,

George

 

Edit:

Also Posts #582 & #583 in the same thread.  Wink

 

 

keengeorge
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keengeorge wrote:

G’Day SB, smile


 


I have noticed that when someone quotes my post generated with the Advanced Post Editor, extra blank lines are inserted.


For an example Please see Posts #577 & #581 in:


30Q button top – OPEN to public


http://budgetlightforum.com/node/44220?page=11


 


Best Regards,


George


 


Edit:


Also Posts #582 & #583 in the same thread.  Wink


 


 

Here is a demo, I quoted my post above with the Simple Post Editor. Smile Wink

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keengeorge wrote:

G'Day SB, smile

 

I have noticed that when someone quotes my post generated with the Advanced Post Editor, extra blank lines are inserted.

For an example Please see Posts #577 & #581 in:

30Q button top - OPEN to public

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/44220?page=11

 

Best Regards,

George

 

Edit:

Also Posts #582 & #583 in the same thread.  Wink

 

 

And there is no problem if I quote it with the Advanced Post Editor.  Wink

 

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keengeorge wrote:
Here is a demo, I quoted my post above with the Simple Post Editor. Smile Wink

It’s fairly simple to understand what happened if you look at the post’s source in the simple editor and keep in mind that every newline gets converted to a break (newline) tag when it renders. The source declares paragraphs (which do their own formatting and newlines), but it also includes actual newlines (which then adds even more space).

It has no way of knowing which language you started with, or whether to attempt to translate. Plus, it has no built-in translator between the two anyway. So, if content goes back and forth between the two, it will have changes in formatting. BLF has always worked this way, and there isn’t a simple automatic solution.

Going the other direction, it has historically been common for all newlines to get eaten when a simple-authored post gets quoted in the advanced editor. It’s a harder problem than it might seem.

On a related note, this is part of why Wikipedia hasn’t had a WYSIWYG-style editor for most of its lifetime. (What You See Is What You Get) That feature is only available as of October 2015, and the organization running the site said it “considered it the most challenging technical project to date”.

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ToyKeeper wrote:
keengeorge wrote:
Here is a demo, I quoted my post above with the Simple Post Editor. Smile ;)
It’s fairly simple to understand what happened if you look at the post’s source in the simple editor and keep in mind that every newline gets converted to a break (newline) tag when it renders. The source declares paragraphs (which do their own formatting and newlines), but it also includes actual newlines (which then adds even more space).

It has no way of knowing which language you started with, or whether to attempt to translate. Plus, it has no built-in translator between the two anyway. So, if content goes back and forth between the two, it will have changes in formatting. BLF has always worked this way, and there isn’t a simple automatic solution.

Going the other direction, it has historically been common for all newlines to get eaten when a simple-authored post gets quoted in the advanced editor. It’s a harder problem than it might seem.

On a related note, this is part of why Wikipedia hasn’t had a WYSIWYG-style editor for most of its lifetime. (What You See Is What You Get) That feature is only available as of October 2015, and the organization running the site said (link is external) it “considered it the most challenging technical project to date”.

TK, AFAIK this did not happen in the previous BLF incarnation. Wink

 

Best Regards,

George

 

unknown00101
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Clicking “mark read” occasionally will mark every thread with ### NEW posts despite having viewed them before. I.e. I clicked mark read, came back a few hours later and every single thread had tons of new posts marked.
Longer threads showed something like 170 new posts, newer threads just showed all posts as new. It seemed to work correctly after clicking mark read again.

Wasn’t a big deal, I just went into each thread I normally read and went to the last page and read backwards until I hit an old post. Just thought I’d mention it.

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keengeorge wrote:
TK, AFAIK this did not happen in the previous BLF incarnation. Wink

Yes, it looks like it went from eating newlines in one direction to adding newlines in the other direction. I think. I haven’t tested it though.

It’s mainly an issue when people don’t trim or clean what they’re quoting, though… which is a big factor in a few other issues as well. Deep quote nesting, for example.

I doubt the human element of it is fix-able. It’s like trying to get people to stop top-posting entire threads in email. Even at the world’s top tech companies, that’s still pretty common.

At least for just newline gardening, it’s probably not a hugely complex issue. A small logic table and a small collection of regular expression substitutions could probably do it.

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unknown00101 wrote:
Clicking “mark read” occasionally will mark every thread with ### NEW posts despite having viewed them before. I.e. I clicked mark read, came back a few hours later and every single thread had tons of new posts marked.
Longer threads showed something like 170 new posts, newer threads just showed all posts as new. It seemed to work correctly after clicking mark read again.

Wasn’t a big deal, I just went into each thread I normally read and went to the last page and read backwards until I hit an old post. Just thought I’d mention it.

Hmm, weird. Thanks for the report.

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Ok here's a test of the keengeorge bug report using the Advanced Post editor.

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, odio sententiae cu usu, detracto persecuti eu est. Quem mutat mea te, fastidii invenire eos et. Eum sanctus hendrerit id. Id erroribus molestiae vel. Id mei vidit dicant vocent, vim ea posse zril. Cetero persecuti definitionem his eu, quo posse dicam ex. Vel platonem evertitur ad, quo rebum ridens diceret an.

Eum no nullam graeco, vis id dolore putent admodum. Officiis argumentum usu te, meis simul lobortis per in, decore utinam efficiantur vix te. Inani partem aperiam sea ut, vel sint labore salutandi in. Mel regione forensibus ad, pri quem decore audiam no, has aliquam euripidis ad. Quo ne civibus electram efficiantur. No vel case iisque, ei quo elit vocent, vis te quodsi regione. Ex nostrud blandit nam, no eos impetus adolescens definitiones, paulo omittantur te sea.

Graece verterem reprimique id pri, ea sumo luptatum nam, et aeterno hendrerit duo. Pri dicant detracto convenire eu, mea ea stet feugiat vivendum. In vim augue noster tibique. Est in elitr vitae labitur. At sit voluptua tractatos, cum ut quod omnium adipiscing.

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sb56637
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sb56637 wrote:

Ok here’s a test of the keengeorge bug report using the Advanced Post editor.


Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, odio sententiae cu usu, detracto persecuti eu est. Quem mutat mea te, fastidii invenire eos et. Eum sanctus hendrerit id. Id erroribus molestiae vel. Id mei vidit dicant vocent, vim ea posse zril. Cetero persecuti definitionem his eu, quo posse dicam ex. Vel platonem evertitur ad, quo rebum ridens diceret an.

Eum no nullam graeco, vis id dolore putent admodum. Officiis argumentum usu te, meis simul lobortis per in, decore utinam efficiantur vix te. Inani partem aperiam sea ut, vel sint labore salutandi in. Mel regione forensibus ad, pri quem decore audiam no, has aliquam euripidis ad. Quo ne civibus electram efficiantur. No vel case iisque, ei quo elit vocent, vis te quodsi regione. Ex nostrud blandit nam, no eos impetus adolescens definitiones, paulo omittantur te sea.

Graece verterem reprimique id pri, ea sumo luptatum nam, et aeterno hendrerit duo. Pri dicant detracto convenire eu, mea ea stet feugiat vivendum. In vim augue noster tibique. Est in elitr vitae labitur. At sit voluptua tractatos, cum ut quod omnium adipiscing.

And here’s a quote.

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Here’s the source that I quoted:



<blockquote class="quote-msg quote-nest-1 odd"><div class="quote-author"><em class="placeholder">sb56637</em> wrote: </div><p>Ok here's a test of the <a class="username" title="View user profile." 
href="http://budgetlightforum.com/user/11662">keengeorge</a> bug report using the Advanced Post editor.</p>
<p>Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, odio sententiae cu usu, detracto persecuti eu est. Quem mutat mea te, fastidii
invenire eos et. Eum sanctus hendrerit id. Id erroribus molestiae vel. Id mei vidit dicant vocent, vim ea 
posse zril. Cetero persecuti definitionem his eu, quo posse dicam ex. Vel platonem evertitur ad, quo rebum 
ridens diceret an.<br /><br />Eum no nullam graeco, vis id dolore putent admodum. Officiis argumentum usu te, 
meis simul lobortis per in, decore utinam efficiantur vix te. Inani partem aperiam sea ut, vel sint labore 
salutandi in. Mel regione forensibus ad, pri quem decore audiam no, has aliquam euripidis ad. Quo ne civibus 
electram efficiantur. No vel case iisque, ei quo elit vocent, vis te quodsi regione. Ex nostrud blandit nam, no
eos impetus adolescens definitiones, paulo omittantur te sea.<br /><br />Graece verterem reprimique id pri, ea
sumo luptatum nam, et aeterno hendrerit duo. Pri dicant detracto convenire eu, mea ea stet feugiat vivendum. In
vim augue noster tibique. Est in elitr vitae labitur. At sit voluptua tractatos, cum ut quod omnium adipiscing.</p>
</blockquote>

Not too ugly.

keengeorge: Is your browser having trouble with line wrapping in the Advanced Editor? Because it looks like your previous posts with it have an awful lot of <p> paragraph tags as though you were manually doing a typewriter carriage return when reaching the right border of the input area.

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unknown00101 wrote:
I clicked mark read, came back a few hours later and every single thread had tons of new posts marked.
Longer threads showed something like 170 new posts, newer threads just showed all posts as new. It seemed to work correctly after clicking mark read again.

I think what happened here is that you marked ‘Read’ on your account, but then your significant other came in and logged into their account in the mean time. They hadn’t logged-in in a while, so there were a lot of new posts. But they felt you have been spending a lot of time here lately and needed to check up on you. Silly

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SB,

I just noticed that the viewing format (number of posts per page) is no longer user selectable. I used to select 300 posts per page to speed up text searches, when wading through long discussion threads.

Can you put the viewing format back in? Innocent

Rule 1-1 as it applies to life, take it as it comes.

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sb56637 wrote:
Here’s the source that I quoted:


<blockquote class="quote-msg quote-nest-2 even"><div class="quote-author"><em class="placeholder">sb56637</em> wrote: </div><p>Ok here's a test of the <a class="username" title="View user profile." 
href="http://budgetlightforum.com/user/11662">keengeorge</a> bug report using the Advanced Post editor.</p>
<p>Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, odio sententiae cu usu, detracto persecuti eu est. Quem mutat mea te, fastidii
invenire eos et. Eum sanctus hendrerit id. Id erroribus molestiae vel. Id mei vidit dicant vocent, vim ea 
posse zril. Cetero persecuti definitionem his eu, quo posse dicam ex. Vel platonem evertitur ad, quo rebum 
ridens diceret an.<br /><br />Eum no nullam graeco, vis id dolore putent admodum. Officiis argumentum usu te, 
meis simul lobortis per in, decore utinam efficiantur vix te. Inani partem aperiam sea ut, vel sint labore 
salutandi in. Mel regione forensibus ad, pri quem decore audiam no, has aliquam euripidis ad. Quo ne civibus 
electram efficiantur. No vel case iisque, ei quo elit vocent, vis te quodsi regione. Ex nostrud blandit nam, no
eos impetus adolescens definitiones, paulo omittantur te sea.<br /><br />Graece verterem reprimique id pri, ea
sumo luptatum nam, et aeterno hendrerit duo. Pri dicant detracto convenire eu, mea ea stet feugiat vivendum. In
vim augue noster tibique. Est in elitr vitae labitur. At sit voluptua tractatos, cum ut quod omnium adipiscing.</p>
</blockquote>

Not too ugly.

keengeorge: Is your browser having trouble with line wrapping in the Advanced Editor? Because it looks like your previous posts with it have an awful lot of <p> paragraph tags as though you were manually doing a typewriter carriage return when reaching the right border of the input area.


G’Day SB, Smile

I have not been aware of any line wrapping issues in the Advanced Editor, but I have just tested line wrapping in the Advanced Editor & it doesn’t seem to be working. Wink
Btw, I insert “CR+LF” as & when I consider them desirable for readability.

Best Regards,
George

PS: This has been generated with Simple Post Editor

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sb56637 wrote:
Here's the source that I quoted: bc..
sb56637 wrote:

Ok here's a test of the keengeorge bug report using the Advanced Post editor.

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, odio sententiae cu usu, detracto persecuti eu est. Quem mutat mea te, fastidii invenire eos et. Eum sanctus hendrerit id. Id erroribus molestiae vel. Id mei vidit dicant vocent, vim ea posse zril. Cetero persecuti definitionem his eu, quo posse dicam ex. Vel platonem evertitur ad, quo rebum ridens diceret an.

Eum no nullam graeco, vis id dolore putent admodum. Officiis argumentum usu te, meis simul lobortis per in, decore utinam efficiantur vix te. Inani partem aperiam sea ut, vel sint labore salutandi in. Mel regione forensibus ad, pri quem decore audiam no, has aliquam euripidis ad. Quo ne civibus electram efficiantur. No vel case iisque, ei quo elit vocent, vis te quodsi regione. Ex nostrud blandit nam, no eos impetus adolescens definitiones, paulo omittantur te sea.

Graece verterem reprimique id pri, ea sumo luptatum nam, et aeterno hendrerit duo. Pri dicant detracto convenire eu, mea ea stet feugiat vivendum. In vim augue noster tibique. Est in elitr vitae labitur. At sit voluptua tractatos, cum ut quod omnium adipiscing.

p. Not too ugly. keengeorge: Is your browser having trouble with line wrapping in the Advanced Editor? Because it looks like your previous posts with it have an awful lot of @

@ paragraph tags as though you were manually doing a typewriter carriage return when reaching the right border of the input area.

This post has been generated with Advanced Post Editor.

 

(Automatic) Line wrapping (?doesn't seem to be working?):

ababbababababababbababababbababbaabbabababbababbabababababbabaabbabbababbababababbababababbababababbababbababbabbababababbababababbababababbababababbabababababababbabbabaabbabababbabababbabababbababababababbababbabababababbabababbababbabababbabababbababababbababbabababbabbabababbababbabbabababbababbababbababbabbababba

sb56637
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@keengeorge Smile Sorry, I just meant line wrapping between words, not long words without spaces.

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1dash1 wrote:
SB,

I just noticed that the viewing format (number of posts per page) is no longer user selectable. I used to select 300 posts per page to speed up text searches, when wading through long discussion threads.

Can you put the viewing format back in? Innocent

Unfortunately no, it looks like that feature was removed. Sorry about that!

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keengeorge
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sb56637 wrote:
@keengeorge Smile Sorry, I just meant line wrapping between words, not long words without spaces.

I am testing I am testing I am testing I am testing I am testing I am testing I am testing I am testing I am testing I am testing I am testing I am testing I am testing I am testing I am testing I am testing I am testing I am testing I am testing I am testing I am testing I am testing I am testing I am testing I am testing I am testing I am testing I am testing 

 

SB, as per above test, line wrapping between words seems to be working as it should (but I haven't checked the generated code).  wink

 

Thank you Very Much,

George

 

PS:

Post generated with Advanced Post Editor

 

keengeorge
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Greetings & Salutations SB,  smile

 

FYI, I just noticed that one af the ?problems seems to be that when press <quote>, then have to switch to the Advanced Editor & often what looked OK in the Simple Post Editor is now often mangled in the Advanced Editor.

Whereas in BLF's previous incarnation we could pre-select Advanced Post Editor for posting in threads (in Settings).

 

Best Regards,

George

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Ahh, that makes sense keengeorge.

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
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keengeorge wrote:
in BLF’s previous incarnation we could pre-select Advanced Post Editor for posting in threads (in Settings)

Yeah, I’m really sorry about that, it’s another one of the missing features in this new version. I would strongly suggest that everyone use the Simple Post Editor for almost everything except for complicated reviews or posts that need heavy formatting.

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wight wrote:
Ahh, that makes sense keengeorge.
sb56637 wrote:
keengeorge wrote:
in BLF’s previous incarnation we could pre-select Advanced Post Editor for posting in threads (in Settings)
Yeah, I’m really sorry about that, it’s another one of the missing features in this new version. I would strongly suggest that everyone use the Simple Post Editor for almost everything except for complicated reviews or posts that need heavy formatting.
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i don’t know how i missed this thread.

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