Skyray driver problem - help..

26 posts / 0 new
Last post
zipanych
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 2 days ago
Joined: 04/16/2016 - 19:11
Posts: 27
Skyray driver problem - help..

Hey guys, I got this fake skyray today so I started messing with it cause it just wasn’t that bright. I bridged R1 (was 183), nothing changed, then I bridged R2 (was 103), and the light stopped working. Did I mess something up, is there a way to fix this driver? If not, then how can I piggyback another one to it? All responses appreciated!

strango
strango's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 9 months ago
Joined: 10/29/2015 - 05:09
Posts: 206
Location: Ukraine

Have the same driver in my SRK clone.
Decided not to modify stock driver but ordered LD35.

I think you should better return R2 (connected to Gate)
And bypass that long printed wire from “-” to Source (right leg of Q2).

zipanych
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 2 days ago
Joined: 04/16/2016 - 19:11
Posts: 27

thanks! I don’t completely understand though what you said, is it possible for you to draw this out? Where exactly do I have to connect right leg of Q2 and what should I do with the R2? I’ve looked into ld35 and it’s 40mm in diameter whereas this driver is 45mm, so is ld35 not a direct fit? It’s kinda pricey too, I’d rather piggyback a standard series driver to the one I have if that’s an option.

strango
strango's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 9 months ago
Joined: 10/29/2015 - 05:09
Posts: 206
Location: Ukraine

ok, but it will take me a while to find out how to share images from my google drive to this website.

Quote:
then I bridged R2 (was 103), and the light stopped working

have you tried to un-bridge R2 ?

I’m not sure 100% but to make it a bit brighter I would solder one end of a thick wire to the outer ring (“-”) and another end to the right contact leg of Q2 FET.

as for LD35 yes it a bit smaller. additional modification (change led connection from Parallel to Series + remove all components from stock driver and place LD35 between pill and stock driver) is required. wont take long but provides better mods along with increased brightness.
LD35 was smth about $9 at GB.

zipanych
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 2 days ago
Joined: 04/16/2016 - 19:11
Posts: 27

9 bucks is not too bad, I will definitely consider that mod. In the meantime, I’ll do what you said and see what happens.

zipanych
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 2 days ago
Joined: 04/16/2016 - 19:11
Posts: 27

Strango, you’re da man!! I unbridged R2 and it worked!!! Beer Grad I also ran a copper braid to the “-” terminal and braided the springs. The lux output went from original 750 to 950, which I think is pretty cool considering the simple mods. Even though LEDs are not Cree they have a nice warm white tint, so I’ll just leave this light as is. Here’s a few “after” pics..


strango
strango's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 9 months ago
Joined: 10/29/2015 - 05:09
Posts: 206
Location: Ukraine

Urw.
P.S. Do not forget to add thermalgrease.

Tom E
Tom E's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 hours 30 min ago
Joined: 08/19/2012 - 08:23
Posts: 15042
Location: LI NY

Got the same exact driver in my recent 4X clone from Amazon. I got mine cranking out lumens -- like 4,000 lumens now, and stock was 1600 down to 1300 in 30 secs, with the stock driver!!

 

You need to restore R1 and R2, hopefully you didn't damage anything. The key amps bump method with this driver is simple:

  •  See the crazy squiggle trace going from batt- (grnd) to the power input pin of the FET? Solder a jumper wire over the squiggle trace. Think I used 20 or 22 AWG teflon wire.What I did was scrape the silk screening off the trace where it's really close to the outer ring, then soldered the wire from that newly made pad direct to the FET pin, lower right pin.
  • add wire bypass's to all 4 springs. Drill holes thru the tail MCPCB so the bypass wires come out the top, then bridge those bypass wires direct to pad where it returns - by the screws I believe.
  • The totally crap fake LED's had to go, so I reflowed XM-L2 U2 3C's I happen to have laying around
  • do what you can to increase thermal path- I added thermal grease to where the MCPCB contacts the ledge of the housing

 

 

 

Tom E
Tom E's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 hours 30 min ago
Joined: 08/19/2012 - 08:23
Posts: 15042
Location: LI NY

This is mine:

 

Big wire then added jumping from top pad to lower pad for measuring current.

Sorry, don't have the pic showing the jumper wire on the driver uploaded. Will post later.

MRsDNF
MRsDNF's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 1 week ago
Joined: 12/22/2011 - 21:18
Posts: 13473
Location: A light beam away from the missus in the land of Aus.

I not say anything Tom. Big Smile

 

djozz quotes, "it came with chinese lettering that is chinese to me".

                      "My man mousehole needs one too"

old4570 said "I'm not an expert , so don't suffer from any such technical restrictions".

Old-Lumens. Highly admired and cherished member of Budget Light Forum. 11.5.2011 - 20.12.16. RIP.

 

zipanych
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 2 days ago
Joined: 04/16/2016 - 19:11
Posts: 27

wow.. I’ve never seen springs get modded like that. Thanks for sharing your pics, but I don’t really feel like reflowing LEDs since I’ve never done it and from what I’ve seen online it’s not that simple. It’s pretty crazy though that you got 4k lumens out of that driver.. Shocked

Tom E
Tom E's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 hours 30 min ago
Joined: 08/19/2012 - 08:23
Posts: 15042
Location: LI NY

Ok. Sorry, didn't see strango's post details and your follow up, so seems ok, but could do a little more if you want. I replaced the LED wires with 22 AWG as well

Here's the missing pictures with more details of my mod.

This is the 16 AWG wire all set for tail amp measurments using a clamp meter:

This is actually a 26 AWG teflon coated wire (think I said 22 AWG or so earlier), but your braid probably works bout the same:

 

Inside, shows the white thermal grease I applied around the shelf:

 

Exact #'s I recorded for stock SecurityIng 4X light, guessing 6A-8A:

lumens: 1,632 @start, 1,350 @30 secs (17.3% drop)

 

After Full mods and UCL lens, reading of 14.0A on a clamp meter:

lumens: 4,352 @start, 3,958 @30 secs (9% drop), 35.5 kcd throw, measured from 5m (377 meters)

 

 

strango
strango's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 9 months ago
Joined: 10/29/2015 - 05:09
Posts: 206
Location: Ukraine
Tom E wrote:

Ok. Sorry, didn’t see strango’s post details and your follow up, so seems ok, but could do a little more if you want. I replaced the LED wires with 22 AWG as well


Here’s the missing pictures with more details of my mod.

Tom E, have you considered an idea of replacing that 2SK4212 FET to smth with lower Rds ?
From datasheet (http://documentation.renesas.com/doc/DocumentServer/D19564EJ1V0DS00.pdf) I see it has Rds=14mOhm. Seems not very bad. I’m not sure if it worth to be replaced or not.

And have you recognized that unknown MCU ?

I wonder if it can be easily replaced with attiny13A and some FW with tuneable mods and higher PWM frequency in low/mid ?

Tom E
Tom E's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 hours 30 min ago
Joined: 08/19/2012 - 08:23
Posts: 15042
Location: LI NY

Yea, thought of using a better FET and looked into replacing the MCU, but Atmel's are pin #4 grnd, pin #8 Vcc, while PIC's are exactly opposite I believe. So easy way to tell is check the grnd and Vcc pins usually easy to find. If matches to an Atmel, possible to replace it then. Think this one is PIC configured, so not easy.

Even for the FET improvement, 14A that I'm at now is pushing this really poor MCPCB. Probably higher amps will start kill'n LED's, even the better XM-L2's I got on there now. DTP makes a huge difference, starts to show measurably by 2A per LED or less even, and pushing over 3 to 3.5A per LED, you start running at risk. That's for a single LED, but this setup for 3, 4, or more LED's could be worse because the heat of one effects the others. Lots of nasty things can occur. I had an old C8 with the old good DD driver, like a HD2010. Dropped in a good cell, and the solder under the LED started melting, and I tightened the bezel, it shorted out the LED by moving on the pads and blew out.

Dale did this recently with a 12 LED J20 - LED's started dropping at high amps, high output. Not so much the LED's themselves is the problem, but inability to pull the heat away from them effectively. Direct Thermal Path MCPCB's solve all that.

strango
strango's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 9 months ago
Joined: 10/29/2015 - 05:09
Posts: 206
Location: Ukraine

Ok, I see.
Will be at home in few hours and post photos of custom pill for this torch. Mine is 3 Led, and as I use it with stock mcpcb I think 3-3.5A per LED will be OK.
Btw what is the relation between Hi and Low mods here ?

Tom E
Tom E's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 hours 30 min ago
Joined: 08/19/2012 - 08:23
Posts: 15042
Location: LI NY

Good guess is they PWM low mode, based on the simplistic design. Looks like R2 is hanging on the FET gate, but if you put a scope on the signal going into the FET gate, you should see the actual PWM rate they use, which is probably relatively low for what we use in our custom drivers. My 85 based boards do like 15 KHz (can go as high as 30 KHz), 13A's can do a min of 4 KHz.

I suspect the PIC or PIC clones out there are cheaper tham Atmel's, because I rarely see an Atmel in a budget light.

 

Sharpie - yes, all good. Stock MCPCB good up to a certain point, but even so, not so efficient, so you are getting less lumens for same amps, and if you are doing 10A across 3 LED's, 3.3A or so per LED, hhmm, maybe 20-25% or so? Dunno - think we charted this stuff in the past, but also very dependent on specific MCPCB's. Think my biggest bottleneck were those fake LED's - wow, there's some bad ones out there...

zipanych
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 2 days ago
Joined: 04/16/2016 - 19:11
Posts: 27

Guys, would you be willing to make some outdoor beamshots of your modded SRKs (maybe with a few other lights for comparison) I think it would be pretty cool if we could see them in action side by side.

Tom E
Tom E's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 hours 30 min ago
Joined: 08/19/2012 - 08:23
Posts: 15042
Location: LI NY

Sorry, not easy for me at all.... Not much open spaces around me here on the island.

zipanych
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 2 days ago
Joined: 04/16/2016 - 19:11
Posts: 27

Tom, going back to your pics, what is the purpose of soldering springs to the back side of the plate? Have you compared reading of that mod to “standard” spring braiding?

Tom E
Tom E's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 hours 30 min ago
Joined: 08/19/2012 - 08:23
Posts: 15042
Location: LI NY

zipanych wrote:
Tom, going back to your pics, what is the purpose of soldering springs to the back side of the plate? Have you compared reading of that mod to "standard" spring braiding?

Well, I'm not soldering the springs, I'm just continuing the heavy gauge bypass wires thru to the bottom of the plate. This results in 100% total elimination of board traces for carrying the signal. No - didn't measure those specific path differences, but it just makes sense and eliminates the unknowns of the specific flashlight design of spring pad traces. Some may be excellent, some very poor. The guys who designed could care less we are using 4-5 times the current they thought it would be carrying, so who knows what they did there.

We just eliminate all doubt with this method. I used to use braids and found they were breaking. You have to be very careful in soldering them, and use better quality braid. I prefer 22 AWG or preferably 20 AWG wires, if they fit ok. Sometimes I'll use 24 AWG for small springs. Never heard or saw a wire bypass breaking.

 

Years back when I was cranking out Super Shocker mods, I got to a point of bypassing every trace on the battery carrier, and I did increase amps, measurably.

strango
strango's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 9 months ago
Joined: 10/29/2015 - 05:09
Posts: 206
Location: Ukraine

Came home an decided to do the same simplest mod.
Led wires – 18AWG
Forgot to measure current before and after but looks a bit brighter now (still worse than stock roche m170 with “green” driver ).
I wonder if I have the same fake cree leds (LB ?).

Powered by 4 protected UR18650ZY
With that custom pill body gets hot fast.

Ambient: 21°C
HI mode (measured with infrared thermometer in area near sidebutton):

  • 30sec: 24
  • 1min: 27
  • 1min30sec: 30
  • 2min: 32.5
  • 3min: 36
  • 4min: 38
  • 5min: 40 (warm)
  • 10min: 50 (hot)

3LED

Body has been (dont know correct word for this sorry Facepalm , extended? tneh grinded) for beter contact with pill

Al pill, sits pretty tight

Tom E
Tom E's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 hours 30 min ago
Joined: 08/19/2012 - 08:23
Posts: 15042
Location: LI NY

Interesting. Yea, been using DC-Fix on some light myself. Didn't think of trying it on a SRK - interesting... My 5X SRK clone has crazy ring patterns in the beam.

I work with an EE doing PIC designs on battery powered assemblies, an add-on product we sell. Didn't look myself into it, but he said he built in power saving sleep mode support in the firmware.

strango - you might have real XM-L2's there, not sure. It's easy for me to spot the XML fakes which is what I had, but the XM-L2 fakes I dunno.

strango
strango's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 9 months ago
Joined: 10/29/2015 - 05:09
Posts: 206
Location: Ukraine

Sharpie wrote:
Ps, I think the MPCB is OK for 3 or 4 emitters.
Once you up the numbers the ones in the middle will obviously cook, and the reflector is compromised.
All show and no go.
I think 4 emitters is the sweet spot

I gess No.
with more leds current through 1 led is lower.
so efficiency lm/W is better
See example attached

With less LEDs you have more W consumption and less lm output for the same total current.

Tom E
Tom E's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 hours 30 min ago
Joined: 08/19/2012 - 08:23
Posts: 15042
Location: LI NY

Wait... Where is this app you got there? Pretty cool, actually, but where?

Is this real or predicted some how? Didn't think CREE would show XM-L2's up to 9A

 

lumens/watt is where multi-leds have gains, for sure.

strango
strango's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 9 months ago
Joined: 10/29/2015 - 05:09
Posts: 206
Location: Ukraine
Tom E wrote:

Wait… Where is this app you got there? Pretty cool, actually, but where?


Is this real or predicted some how? Didn’t think CREE would show XM-L2’s up to 9A


 


lumens/watt is where multi-leds have gains, for sure.

All the best for you Tom E
that screenshot is from http://ledcalc.fonarevka.ru/?pct (http://ledcalc.fonarevka.ru) a looot of LED types.

There is an offline app for windows available as well but it has no english interface.

I believe it is not predicted but based on afficial pdf-s

9A is total current for X*LED in parallel.

mr_dk
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 2 months ago
Joined: 10/31/2017 - 10:04
Posts: 3
Location: Turkey

I also purchase a skyray king and it came whit exactly the same driver. It has very poor light. I decided to buy this driver https://m.fasttech.com/p/5288600 Do you thing it would create a good improvement is it wort buying it ? Thanks a lot.