Gas Prices Going Up

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Spartan
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BlueSwordM wrote:
That’s why I’m saying ANY electricity production. Be it petroleum, methane, even coal is more efficient than using liquid based hydrocarbons for direct transportation.

The new Benz diesels and one of the gas hybrid gas engine (Prius?) is running about 41%.

Big carbon based generating plants can run as high as 50%, but then, there are transmission losses.

Generally, it’s mostly true that carbon based generating plants are more efficient, buy if you combined the very latest car engines with battery recapture, they start to match the central plants.

BlueSwordM wrote:
That’s why hybrids are quite a bit more efficient than gasoline cars: they actually use their engines as electric generations, and since electric generators are more efficient than engines, hybrid vehicles win.

No.

Electricity “generators” themselves convert ANY rotation at around 90%-95%.

When one commonly talks about “generator efficiency”, it’s about the conversion efficiency of feul. Gallons/liters per hour per kw.

Hybrids “win” by recapture, not by converting diesel or gas at any higher efficiency. In fact, there are generating losses. When a Prius runs out of electricity, it goes about 45 mpg.

BlueSwordM wrote:
Using excess electricity for hydrogen production would be great though during the day Smile

STOP.

Every time I hear “hydrogen production” i want to hurt a squirrel.

Think clearly about this….you are going to generate electricity…..to break down water…to make hydrogen…to store it…transport it….to run it in a combustion power plant. And lose 60% of it. Or in a unicorn feul cell and still lose 40% of it.

Why? Why do you want me to hurt squirrels?

The “hydrogen economy” is a pile of crap invented by the car companies to save their enormous investments in combustion engines. The utter nonsense is dying off as batteries are getting better.

Electricity, meet battery. Battery, meet electric motor. Done.

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RobertB wrote:
Yourrid wrote:
You guys should see the price of jet fuel Facepalm Most major airports (New York, Miami, LA), fuel is +$8.00 per gallon. Fill up with 800 gallons, pay a $1,000 landing fee, $200 “ramp” fee, $250 “parking” fee and $100 to get your passengers vehicles on the ramp… it gets a little crazy.

Wow, thats crazy the price of fuel at major airports. Here’s the current fuel prices at our local airport as of today.

!{width:100%}https://i.imgur.com/uqfxbtv.jpg!

God spoke to me and said….if i wanted people to fly, I’d give them wings. So they should pay for the jet feul and stop kvetching.

Moses came from the mountaintop carrying a tablet. The Words were....WITH GREAT LUMENS COMES GREAT REPONSIBILITY.

BlueSwordM
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@Spartan, you are probably right about hybrid cars. I’m going to do some additional research to do see if I’m misinformed about them, or if I’m just not a good French-English translator in terms of scientific subjects Facepalm

Also, about hydrogen, that’s why we are using excess electricity.

Using excess electricity to form hydrogen isn’t a bad idea if you use it to power something like airplanes or large boats.
That’s where the money is.

Until we can engineer very high energy dense cells, that is going to be a stop gap solution for large vehicles.

I’m probably wrong too about that.

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BlueSwordM wrote:
@Spartan, you are probably right about hybrid cars. I’m going to do some additional research to do see if I’m misinformed about them, or if I’m just not a good French-English translator in terms of scientific subjects Facepalm

Also, about hydrogen, that’s why we are using excess electricity.

Using excess electricity to form hydrogen isn’t a bad idea if you use it to power something like airplanes or large boats.
That’s where the money is.

Until we can engineer very high energy dense cells, that is going to be a stop gap solution for large vehicles.

I’m probably wrong too about that.

Let’s, make a deal. You help me with flashlights and I’ll help you with car or grid related questions. Sick

Generating and storing hydrogen to reuse it is not a good idea because to convert it back to useable electricity wastes about half of it.

We need better batteries.

Which I will qualify….we need better batteries to store electricity for transportation, not the grid. I can only imagine the scale of grid level storage based on wind/solar. Probably need a double fridge size battery in every home and house size battery in ever corner.

.

BTW….If you are in Quebec, you have enormous amount of hydro power which tilts the renewable discussion. Even then, if you start converting transportation, you will run out of it.

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The most viable. Efficient, Cost effective fuel so far. For heavy transport.
Which. In places like US, AUST and Can.
is gas primed diesel powered Combustable motors..
You could never have the volume or capacity of battery or Solar power to haul trucks around that weigh over 103 ton as our main tpt on the roads are.
Even the little 32 and 64 ton Semi and B doubles wouldn’t be viablefor any distances under todays technology.

When Battery tech improves 50+ %.
Then we can consider OFF Grid in homes like ours, with more panels added.

Our 4.2kw System. Combined with grid. Runs us, and gives SOME cash returns. Around $650 Per annum.
when managed properly.
and while they giving us 44c per kw Fed into grid
after our usage for running home.

In Hindsight, I should have installed the max allowed 5 kw inv
and around 7kw in panels.
But my mind was honest. Just thinking of running my home on a system with capacity of doing so. Not cash returns at all Drrrrr.
A 7kw panel/5 kw Inv. Gives SOME loss in panel output when on full sun. I.E.
Generating 7kw from panels. While System only accepting max 5kw through inverter.
But giving FULL 5kw INput into system and grid 90+% of time, for Best cash returns.

You live and remember hey. Later.

I have that system on home. with a 20 yr old wind Genny from earlier yacht mounted on Carport roof with one old (35yrs) 40w panel
through a 15a 12v regulator.
Just to keep my 4 x boat battery’s and 3 x Ute battery’s floating.
Old but goodie. Still works well with free power input.
It Often floats Roger, next door ute batt’s too, while he out on the mines earning a crust or two.

At the moment. Here.
It would cost me OVER $14k, for a 10yr max life Battery Bank
to run this system/home. 24/7/365.

NOT yet viable hey. But one day.
Probably AFTER we in two little Chinese painted jars I reckon.

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Since last December we paid on average $2.23/gal… and our car gets about 130 mpg.

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KawiBoy1428 wrote:
VP Racing Fuel C14 is over $22.00 bucks a Gallon now! No more long ass burn outs! Crying Big Smile
And among the tires, there was much rejoicing. Big Smile
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Spartan wrote:
RobertB wrote:
Yourrid wrote:
You guys should see the price of jet fuel Facepalm Most major airports (New York, Miami, LA), fuel is +$8.00 per gallon. Fill up with 800 gallons, pay a $1,000 landing fee, $200 “ramp” fee, $250 “parking” fee and $100 to get your passengers vehicles on the ramp… it gets a little crazy.

Wow, thats crazy the price of fuel at major airports. Here’s the current fuel prices at our local airport as of today.

!{width:100%}https://i.imgur.com/uqfxbtv.jpg!

God spoke to me and said….if i wanted people to fly, I’d give them wings. So they should pay for the jet feul and stop kvetching.

I heard him too. God was only talking about Fling Wings (helicopters).. lol

caramba
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I agree, for some electric cars are perfect.
But for the rest of us it is not,

Electricity is not cheap, and the more you use , the more expensive it gets. When you charge an electric car, you also waste a bit due the inefficiency.
Obviously gas engines are way more inefficient although in the winter it helps with the heating .

What I can’t justify is the extra $5000-10000 when you buy an electric/hybrid car vs a similar gasoline car or about $50-100 in monthly payments. You also need to buy a charger for your home and that is not a cheap Liitokala. Smile

And then you can’t fold the back seats because of the battery and your trunk is smaller as well, so you might end up buying a bigger car.

Smart car as a 4th car sounds cool especially with your parking issues, is that electric or gas? They are kind of loud, so I assume gas but no idea.

Insurance is 3x times your gas bill? Wow, I guess 15 minutes will not save you 15%. on car insurance…,
Looks like they are taking advantage of you.

Spartan wrote:
Electric cars day will come, but not until they have batteries that last a couple of hundred thousand miles.

I think I already posted the resale value of electric cars. Around here, a smart car loses 2/3 to a 3/4 of it’s value in three years. So unless you charge them for free, the resale value will absolutely murder any “savings” in electricity. That is if you have ANY saving from there.

Electricity up here is 28 cent a KW. That is the all in price, just like a gallon of gas is all in as far as purchasing. That makes electric cars almost as expensive to run as gas FOR THE SAME SIZE VEHICLE. Then you get walloped on the resale.

That be said, I am buying a Smart car, not because I need a 4th car, but because it’s a nice suburban putter and the purchase price makes it a throw-away car. Unlike my other cars, I wont park it so far away that I need a taxi to get to the the front of a mall door…..lol

As for the price of gas, I care but not as much as I care for my overall insurance hit. Insurance is 3 times my yearly cost of gas.

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Joshk wrote:
Since last December we paid on average $2.23/gal… and our car gets about 130 mpg.
What kind of car do you have?

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Yeah.

130MPG is absolutely insane, and is the realm of electric cars.

With the volumetric energy density of gasoline, that kind of efficiency would be monumental.

Unless you meant 13,0MPG of course…

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teacher wrote:
What kind of car do you have?

Tesla Model 3 Smile I converted kwh of electricity cost to $/Gal of gasoline.

BlueSwordM wrote:
Yeah.

130MPG is absolutely insane, and is the realm of electric cars.

With the volumetric energy density of gasoline, that kind of efficiency would be monumental.

Unless you meant 13,0MPG of course…


You guessed it, electric. The cool thing about having a massive electric motor is that it is also a massive generator when you let off the gas. So you recharge when you slow down, upping your MPG.
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Ok… not bad at all. Wink

You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load./"Bear" Bryant 

 .................................. "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast" ...................................

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         Rudeness Level _ mΩ _ {width:70%} _ LightWiki _ LED Tint Chart  

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2.65$ here in West Virginia.

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Ahhh Good old times Smile

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BlueSwordM wrote:
Also, about hydrogen, that’s why we are using excess electricity.

Using excess electricity to form hydrogen isn’t a bad idea if you use it to power something like airplanes or large boats.
That’s where the money is.

Until we can engineer very high energy dense cells, that is going to be a stop gap solution for large vehicles.

I’m probably wrong too about that.

Storing hydrogen is generally a Bad Idea, roundabout at best.

Anyone ever hear of hydrogen embrittlement? The little critters get into the spaces between metal atoms and do what freezing water does to cracks in concrete.

And it’s ever-elusive, being able to sneak through even the smallest gaps in connectors, fittings, and the like. Leaks like a sieve…

It also has that nasty property of a negative JT constant, so when you release it from a container, it doesn’t get cold like, say, an aerosol spray, but heats up and can actually get hot enough to burst into a wonderfully invisible flame. Firefighters encountering H2 flames have to use cloth-on-a-stick to poke around and see if it bursts into flames, rather than walking into it themselves.

Produce it on demand if you really need it, but don’t store it.

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caramba wrote:

Smart car as a 4th car sounds cool especially with your parking issues, is that electric or gas? They are kind of loud, so I assume gas but no idea.

Insurance is 3x times your gas bill? Wow, I guess 15 minutes will not save you 15%. on car insurance…,
Looks like they are taking advantage of you.

Electric Smart car. They get hammered the first three years and then become cheap enough to ignore any further depreciation.

Even though I’m the sole driver, insurance companies are hitting me as if all three are daily drivers.

Moses came from the mountaintop carrying a tablet. The Words were....WITH GREAT LUMENS COMES GREAT REPONSIBILITY.

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Macka17 wrote:

At the moment. Here.
It would cost me OVER $14k, for a 10yr max life Battery Bank
to run this system/home. 24/7/365.

When we finally convert over to the perfect green world of no carbon based fuel use, I will need a 1 MW battery in the basement.

Yearly, I use 12-14 megawatts normally, another 6-7 megawatts for transport, yet another 9-10 megawatts for heating. So a two week backup is….1 megawatt.

About 91,000 18650 cells. That shouldn’t be too expensive.

Ohhh…..what I wouldn’t give to live in some politicians utopian fantasies….

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Lightbringer wrote:

Produce it on demand if you really need it, but don’t store it.

I have some sexy words for you.

Radioisotope thermal generators.

Please contain your excitement!

Porn site….no enviros allowed….

http://ansnuclearcafe.org/2012/08/07/converting-heat-into-electricity-wi...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioisotope_thermoelectric_generator

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Yeah, that’s what they use in satellites and probes and all kinds of spacey star-tracky stuff.

Probably get raided by some DOE hit squad, though.

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Yourrid wrote:
You guys should see the price of jet fuel Facepalm Most major airports (New York, Miami, LA), fuel is +$8.00 per gallon. Fill up with 800 gallons, pay a $1,000 landing fee, $200 “ramp” fee, $250 “parking” fee and $100 to get your passengers vehicles on the ramp… it gets a little crazy.

Most major companies “hedge” the fuel prices, which makes me wonder why people couldn’t do the same. For instance: imagine going to your local gas station when gas is $1.99/gallon and saying “I’d like to pre-buy 1000 gallons please.” Hat


You can do that by buying futures through your brokerage.
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ledalex wrote:
Yourrid wrote:
You guys should see the price of jet fuel Facepalm Most major airports (New York, Miami, LA), fuel is +$8.00 per gallon. Fill up with 800 gallons, pay a $1,000 landing fee, $200 “ramp” fee, $250 “parking” fee and $100 to get your passengers vehicles on the ramp… it gets a little crazy.

Most major companies “hedge” the fuel prices, which makes me wonder why people couldn’t do the same. For instance: imagine going to your local gas station when gas is $1.99/gallon and saying “I’d like to pre-buy 1000 gallons please.” Hat


You can do that by buying futures through your brokerage.

Maybe we should get some of those futures. Are they available to anyone, or you have to be a certain type of investor?

Water is next, I just saw 40 cents/gallon of filtered water at one of those outdoor water dispensing machines, the price doubled in the last few years,

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I know quite a few EV owners and the subject of being green or our carbon footprint rarely comes up. I have either been in or driven over a dozen all electric vehicles and what is talked about is how fun they are to drive. One pedal driving fundamentally changes how you drive. And there are some very interesting things to come as well. A lot of misconceptions out there. The first 13 minutes of this video summarizes it well.

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As far as gas prices go, the rate of increase between 2002 and 2008 is quite extreme. According to this cited source it was nearly $2. While causation and association are two different things, it’s worth considering when thinking about the collapse of 2008. Makes me wonder what the US economy would look like if over 6 years you added $2 to today’s prices. It’s not like China and India are going to slow down their thirst for oil. Wouldn’t getting through some of the growing pains car manufacturers are having and gaining consumer acceptance be a good thing. I would rather see a slow steady change to say 10% of the cars on the road being electric as opposed to the 1% now. Might give the U.S. a buffer in case of a natural and/or man made extreme events.

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IMO, most people’s best bets to save on gas would be:

1. Use an electric car heater during the winter.
2. Try to keep a constant speed to prevent acceleration and deceleration.
3. Keep your windows open during the summer below 50mph, and closed with AC running above 50mph.
4. Try to use other types of vehicles, like bikes, walking, public transport.
5. Car sharing. Meaning you not only get to pay each less gas, you get to socialise a bit.
6. Turn off the engine/put it in neutral mode after 30 seconds for putting it in neutral, and about 2 mins for turning off the engine.

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I saw the video and if one like electric and suits them fine, but once again, more nonsense about the real cost of driving electric cars. Starting from ““it’s only 8 cents” which i seriously doubt that there are no other charges. Minimum billings, delivery charges, transmission loss charges, etc.

Up here, it’s “only 12 cents” but lands up costing 28 cents CDN with all the charges and taxes. Then there is the efficiency loss of charging. The comparison has to be the all in price at the plug versus the pump. For comparable sized cars, at our electricity cost, there is not much difference. Definitely not the nonsense numbers of the video.

Then there is the “average America goes 33 miles a day”. Because I want to buy a Smart car, which actually has one of the lowest ranges, I’ve taken notice of our “shopping trips”. They run anywhere from 10 to 45 miles BUT, if we go to the other side of the city, and it is a BIG city, day shopping and dinner, then we could be closer to 100 miles. So even though I like the Smart for it’s convenience and not worrying about someone scratching it, it has real limitations. If the outing involved highway use or closer to the upper end of it’s range, it’s staying home.

The Leaf is better in both the above regards….but now it’s less “disposable”. The Tesla even more so and closer to a “no anxiety” daily driver.

Like I said in previous posts, I don’t have any problem with electric cars, just the BS that surrounds them. Real costs aside, if it’s a second car AND pretty predictable use AND the ability to conveniently charge it, it IS a solution.

When I buy mine, I’ll make a no BS video.

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Inkidu wrote:
As far as gas prices go, the rate of increase between 2002 and 2008 is quite extreme. According to this cited source it was nearly $2. While causation and association are two different things, it’s worth considering when thinking about the collapse of 2008. Makes me wonder what the US economy would look like if over 6 years you added $2 to today’s prices. It’s not like China and India are going to slow down their thirst for oil. Wouldn’t getting through some of the growing pains car manufacturers are having and gaining consumer acceptance be a good thing. I would rather see a slow steady change to say 10% of the cars on the road being electric as opposed to the 1% now. Might give the U.S. a buffer in case of a natural and/or man made extreme events.

Between Canada and USA oil production, we don’t need any oil from anyone else. So if the Hormuz Strait closed tomorrow, aside from Russia, China, Europe, Japan and pretty much every major country in the world would be in a world of hurt.

Of course the oil companies will be jumping with glee to rake us over with “world prices”….until they get slapped with “no exports allowed”.

The biggest threat to our oil security are enviros. Which can only be a threat if we let them be a threat.

Moses came from the mountaintop carrying a tablet. The Words were....WITH GREAT LUMENS COMES GREAT REPONSIBILITY.

BlueSwordM
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Spartan wrote:
The biggest threat to our oil security to be enviros. Which can only be a threat if we let them be a threat.

Ok wut.

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BlueSwordM wrote:
IMO, most people’s best bets to save on gas would be:

1. Use an electric car heater during the winter.
2. Try to keep a constant speed to prevent acceleration and deceleration.
3. Keep your windows open during the summer below 50mph, and closed with AC running above 50mph.
4. Try to use other types of vehicles, like bikes, walking, public transport.
5. Car sharing. Meaning you not only get to pay each less gas, you get to socialise a bit.
6. Turn off the engine/put it in neutral mode after 30 seconds for putting it in neutral, and about 2 mins for turning off the engine.

Weeze got to thinkem outside da box……

Moses came from the mountaintop carrying a tablet. The Words were....WITH GREAT LUMENS COMES GREAT REPONSIBILITY.

BlueSwordM
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Hahahaha.

I mean, the biggest argument to not using gasoline cars would actually be this, to people who don’t care about our survival on this planet anyway:

If we continue to use petroleum based fuels, how are we going to produce many chemicals if we run out of petrol? Petroleum jelly, many cosmetics, medical plastic, liquid lubricants, etc.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
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