Smaller SBT-90.2 light with Anduril - Anything on the horizon?

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lightdecay
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First, here are 4 data points:
Hank claims Noctigon K1 with SBT-90.2 (not the flashlights discussed here) is capable of 4500 lm OTF. It seems reasonable to expect that at turn on.
Vinh measured stock Noctigon K1 with SBT-90.2, which uses a single 21700 battery, at 4285 lm and 475 kcd.
Vinh measured stock Acebeam K75, which uses 4 18650 batteries, at 4800 lm and 1.55 Mcd.
Vinh measured de-lensed Noctigon KR1vn with SBT-90.2, which uses a single 18650 battery, at 5000 lm and 110 kcd.

Ready?
Lumintop claims X9L, which uses a single 21700 battery, is capable of 6500 lm and 163.8 kcd.

Vinh’s measurements might not be accurate number-wise, but at least they seem credible, and they are probably reasonably accurate on a relative basis. Lumintop isn’t even trying to be credible.

Glenn7
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Huh? OK, I was comparing X9L to Vihn’s KR1vn (SBT90) so my math was out a little (sorrrrry!) – X9L has 53.8 more cd throw (110 vs 163.8) even if Lumitop is obviously exaggerating at 6500lm with 163cd throw, it has a bigger reflector than the KR1 so it will throw further – and yes 6 grams is more mass and mass does help with heatsinking as does fins, fins on KR1 are really small as they weren’t made for big powerful leds also De-lensing the SBT90 will make it run hotter too.
The X9L was designed around the SBT90 led from the start, KR1 with SBT90 is a compromise.

I know people get brand loyal and bite/defend, Sorry if I hurt your brand loyalty and that you bought a KR1vn and are touchy at my comments I didn’t mean it that way, was just thinking out loud and justifying my purchase to me and thought it might help others.

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Glenn7 wrote:
Huh? OK, I was comparing X9L to Vihn’s KR1vn (SBT90) so my math was out a little (sorrrrry!) – X9L has 53.8 more cd throw (110 vs 163.8).

Not really the same math but okay…. Your previous post you stated 60%+ more cd which was already false, the new statement is better but still doesn’t correct previous statement.
Glenn7 wrote:
even if Lumitop is obviously exaggerating at 6500lm with 163cd throw, it has a bigger reflector than the KR1 so it will throw further – and yes 6 grams is more mass and mass does help with heatsinking as does fins, fins on KR1 are really small as they weren’t made for big powerful leds and De-lensing the SBT90 will make it run hotter too.

Yes a larger reflector will yield better throw but again 5mm is very minuscule and numbers are a theoretical by lumintop vs tested by Vin/Hank on listings. In a light this small with the heat the LED can produce 6 grams is negligible difference, in terms of proper heatsinking still have to give it to Vin/Hank as I’ve had issues with the FWXX series lights with poor thermals.
Glenn7 wrote:
I know people get brand loyal and bite/defend, Sorry if I hurt your brand loyalty and that you bought a KR1vn and are touchy at my comments I didn’t mean it that way, was just thinking out loud and justifying my purchase to me and thought it might help others.

I’m not trying to bite, only refute exaggerated claims “you” put forth of how one is “vastly” better than the other. I personally don’t care about brand but quality of products in a specific lineup why else would I own every iteration of the GT…. and color variants of the FW3A…..
id30209
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Glenn7 wrote:
The X9L was designed around the SBT90 led from the start...

 

Wrong. It's FW21PRO with added long bezel "ring" and reflector instead of triple MCPCB and funny optics.

Just add a reflector and top bezel on your existing Pro and you have X9L...

I don't care much about numbers you guys throwing, what i care is the driver which Noctigon easily beat Lumintop.

WTB Titanium 4sevens 2xAA tube

lightdecay
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Glenn7 wrote:
Huh? OK, I was comparing X9L to Vihn’s KR1vn (SBT90) so my math was out a little (sorrrrry!) – X9L has 53.8 more cd throw (110 vs 163.8) even if Lumitop is obviously exaggerating at 6500lm with 163cd throw, it has a bigger reflector than the KR1 so it will throw further – and yes 6 grams is more mass and mass does help with heatsinking as does fins, fins on KR1 are really small as they weren’t made for big powerful leds also De-lensing the SBT90 will make it run hotter too.
The X9L was designed around the SBT90 led from the start, KR1 with SBT90 is a compromise.

I know people get brand loyal and bite/defend, Sorry if I hurt your brand loyalty and that you bought a KR1vn and are touchy at my comments I didn’t mean it that way, was just thinking out loud and justifying my purchase to me and thought it might help others.

Not at all! I apologize for the way I worded that post, I was annoyed by how unrealistic Lumintop’s numbers were. It is possible that Lumintop’s throw is accurate, I just don’t know. Hopefully someone will get the X9L and post real measurements.

Most flashlights are a compromise in some way, hopefully X9L doesn’t have any major issues. Did you hear about the issues with Astrolux FT03S SBT-90.2? Astrolux used wires that were too thin, which increased resistance, and SBT-90.2 couldn’t pull enough current to get the output people were expecting. Some (all?) reflectors were worse than those in FT03, and throw dropped by 5% or more.
http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1621420#comment-1621420
https://facebook.com/m4dm4xdeals/posts/seems-the-reflector-of-the-ft03s-...

0oklight
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Can someone explain simply why the KR1 driver is better than the Lumintop X9L? …If that’s what the comparison is between. Or was the reference to K1 vs X9L?

Artiet59
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Glenn7 wrote:
Huh? OK, I was comparing X9L to Vihn’s KR1vn (SBT90) so my math was out a little (sorrrrry!) – X9L has 53.8 more cd throw (110 vs 163.8) even if Lumitop is obviously exaggerating at 6500lm with 163cd throw, it has a bigger reflector than the KR1 so it will throw further – and yes 6 grams is more mass and mass does help with heatsinking as does fins, fins on KR1 are really small as they weren’t made for big powerful leds also De-lensing the SBT90 will make it run hotter too.
The X9L was designed around the SBT90 led from the start, KR1 with SBT90 is a compromise.

I know people get brand loyal and bite/defend, Sorry if I hurt your brand loyalty and that you bought a KR1vn and are touchy at my comments I didn’t mean it that way, was just thinking out loud and justifying my purchase to me and thought it might help others.

I have multiple emisar/noctigon including the kr1, and you helped me make up my mind. i’m going with the X9L. I also have the fw21 pro and love the shape and form of the light. i love my kr1 too so its not an easy decision. I think even if the 163000 cd is over rated, it still has that larger reflector so it has to be worth something, and the fw21 pro is pocketable for me and the x9l is only 13mm longer.

The only thing i have no knowledge about, and is giving me apprehension, is the driver discussion from earlier posts.

Why is the CC driver better for this led than the FET? also, i’ve seen the loneoceans talked about, why is that driver so sought after?

sorry for my ignorance to this subject – the last time i asked about drivers i got blasted on BLF by people who think a google search explains the intricacies of these electronics.

Thank you

Artiet59
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id30209 wrote:

Wanted ro say Lumintop X9L but when i saw price of 109$ i’ve changed my mind.


better buy Noctigon KR1 and SBT90.2 and merge them.


At least you will have the best driver for this emitter, CC over FET


Is there anything you need to do to the light beside literally just swapping the LED? Like does the driver or anything need to be altered/enhanced/improved upon to make a sbt90 work in the KR1. It looks like from other posts the reflector needs to be teamed, but I mean do any electronic changes need to be made? Thank you in advance!
lightdecay
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id30209 wrote:

At least you will have the best driver for this emitter, CC over FET

The constant current driver is not “the best driver for this emitter”. I don’t know if the KR1 driver has FET. Vinh claims to be using a different “Sky Lumen driver exclusive for SBT90” driver in KR1vn.

You need FET and a good battery to get the output that everyone buys SBT-90.2 for. SBT-90.2 limited to 5A is like buying a Lamborghini and limiting max speed to 55 MPH (90 km/h).

id30209
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lightdecay wrote:
id30209 wrote:

At least you will have the best driver for this emitter, CC over FET

The constant current driver is not "the best driver for this emitter". I don't know if the KR1 driver has FET. Vinh claims to be using a different "Sky Lumen driver exclusive for SBT90" driver in KR1vn. You need FET and a good battery to get the output that everyone buys SBT-90.2 for. SBT-90.2 limited to 5A is like buying a Lamborghini and limiting max speed to 55 MPH (90 km/h).

Having this monster in such a tiny host...yeah you need something like 5A CC. Vinh doesn’t say anywhere that all his wow builds can sustain output for seconds only before droping down like a brick...

I have sevarl tiny hosts like kr1 and sbt90.2 combo and it just doesn’t work as you think. This emitter in order to give what people are asking needs a lot of heatsinking. 
CC will at least provide decent runtime and output over any FET in this type of host.

WTB Titanium 4sevens 2xAA tube

id30209
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Artiet59 wrote:
id30209 wrote:

Wanted ro say Lumintop X9L but when i saw price of 109$ i’ve changed my mind.

better buy Noctigon KR1 and SBT90.2 and merge them.

At least you will have the best driver for this emitter, CC over FET

Is there anything you need to do to the light beside literally just swapping the LED? Like does the driver or anything need to be altered/enhanced/improved upon to make a sbt90 work in the KR1. It looks like from other posts the reflector needs to be teamed, but I mean do any electronic changes need to be made? Thank you in advance!

Just swap emitters and isolate 90.2 emitter around die. That’s it.

WTB Titanium 4sevens 2xAA tube

Rayoui
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I guess I don’t really see the point of even having an SBT90.2 if the intention is to only use it at 5A or under. It’s very expensive and many other LEDs will perform similarly at 5A. Just kind of seems like it defeats the purpose, especially since the SBT90.2 isn’t particularly throwy (unless you crank it up to 20A to brute force the candela) and its tint is sickly green.

At the kind of currents you have to push through this thing to make it perform, I don’t think either of these hosts is ideal.

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WTB Titanium 4sevens 2xAA tube

Artiet59
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id30209 wrote:

Artiet59 wrote:
id30209 wrote:

Wanted ro say Lumintop X9L but when i saw price of 109$ i’ve changed my mind.


better buy Noctigon KR1 and SBT90.2 and merge them.


At least you will have the best driver for this emitter, CC over FET


Is there anything you need to do to the light beside literally just swapping the LED? Like does the driver or anything need to be altered/enhanced/improved upon to make a sbt90 work in the KR1. It looks like from other posts the reflector needs to be teamed, but I mean do any electronic changes need to be made? Thank you in advance!

Just swap emitters and isolate 90.2 emitter around die. That’s it.


Thank you!
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Rayoui wrote:
the SBT90.2 (…) is sickly green.

It’s green if compared to something less green. IMO it’s beam is nice and without any tint shifts in corona (at least NI40 version).

Have you seen dedomed SST-40? This is definition of green beam Big Smile

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To be fair, I’m not a particularly huge fan of any Luminus LEDs as I find them all to be pretty green, even with the domes on (with the exception of the 3000K SST20). True that they don’t have much tint shift across the beam and that uniformity helps a little.

The SBT90.2 in my K30-GT measures duv at 0.0132. I got a bare LED from Neal that I dropped in a D80v2 and that one comes in at 0.0153. I haven’t seen a dedomed SST40 but if it’s worse than that, I’m not sure I want to.

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lightdecay wrote:
id30209 wrote:

At least you will have the best driver for this emitter, CC over FET

The constant current driver is not “the best driver for this emitter”. I don’t know if the KR1 driver has FET. Vinh claims to be using a different “Sky Lumen driver exclusive for SBT90” driver in KR1vn.

You need FET and a good battery to get the output that everyone buys SBT-90.2 for. SBT-90.2 limited to 5A is like buying a Lamborghini and limiting max speed to 55 MPH (90 km/h).

The KR1 sbt90.2 driver is regulated upto 5A with direct drive. On turbo it gets as brigjt as your battery can push it

lightdecay
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Which KR1 SBT-90.2 driver? Hank doesn’t sell KR1 with SBT-90.2. AFAIK there is only KR1vn from Vinh with “Sky Lumen driver exclusive for SBT90”.

id30209
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lightdecay wrote:
Which KR1 SBT-90.2 driver? Hank doesn't sell KR1 with SBT-90.2. AFAIK there is only KR1vn from Vinh with “Sky Lumen driver exclusive for SBT90”.

I just ordered 7.5A CC and FET for turbo directly from Hank. A little playing with tools and it will be good to go.

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lightdecay wrote:
Which KR1 SBT-90.2 driver? Hank doesn’t sell KR1 with SBT-90.2. AFAIK there is only KR1vn from Vinh with “Sky Lumen driver exclusive for SBT90”.

I meant K1 driver. I think Hank likely uses the K1 or KR4 driver.

lightdecay
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Vinh measured lumens and throw for X9L, throw is surprisingly close to spec. Not bad!

Stock X9L SBT90 @2s: 4850L, 160Kcd, 800m
https://skylumen.com/collections/v54-lights/products/lumintop-x9lvn-high...

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id30209 wrote:

SKV89 wrote:
Neal was working on creating Loneocean drivers for the FW series. I wonder if this X9L will be using Loneocean’s drivers or the standard lumintop FET drivers

I’ve got an answer from Victor Zhu (Lumintop) that X9L will use standard FET driver instead of Loneocean’s Sad

Is this true because the graphs in this video shows it is regulated.

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id30209 wrote:

lightdecay wrote:
Which KR1 SBT-90.2 driver? Hank doesn’t sell KR1 with SBT-90.2. AFAIK there is only KR1vn from Vinh with “Sky Lumen driver exclusive for SBT90”.

I just ordered 7.5A CC and FET for turbo directly from Hank. A little playing with tools and it will be good to go.


How did this driver work out for the sbt90? Did you put it in a kr1?
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When the Loneocean driver be ready for X9L?

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