Search and Rescue Torch

LED Flashlights – General Info
1

Hello all, new member here to hopefully pick some brains.

TL;DR
Can anyone suggest a Search and Rescue torch with the following (possibly unrealistic) requirements:

- Push Pull Zoomie

- 3000 LM Flood beam

- 1500 LM, 250 kCd Spot beam

- 400/500LM constant output (no stepdown)

- USB onboard charging

- Handheld size

- Rain Proof

- 3hrs burn time at 400LM (would a single cell 21700 manage this?)

  • ~ £100

Long version with explanations:

I’m a member of a UK Lowland Rescue (UK search and rescue is split between Mountain Rescue and anything that’s not a mountain!) team and I’m looking for a new “ideal” torch. I’ve been doing the rounds of the forums and the different “enthusiast” manufacturers over the last couple of days and haven’t found something that would exactly meet the specifications - maybe I’m asking too much from the currently available tech?

The current torches that I (and almost all members of the team use) are up to the job - I suppose I’m more interested on what’s available for us to use and if there’s anything that would constitute a significant advantage over our current equipment.

The current “Go-to” torch for most of our members is the LedLenser P7R, which costs around £100.

There are some important aspects of the P7R that make it popular:

It’s a Zoomie.
This seems to be the most controversial point when talking to enthusiasts! It is important as there is frequent change from close range searching (large even spill) and long range spotting (good throw). I find the zoom state being constantly changed during use, so the fact that it is a PUSH/PULL zoomie and not a TWIST zoomie actually becomes a fairly major factor to the torches ease-of-use.
The usual argument against the use of a zoomie is either to have a good hybrid torch - this isn’t usually great as they usually require a higher power setting to get a usable spill area for searching (burn time is important on a long search) or to carry a dedicated thrower and a dedicated flooder. This is very sub-optimal as it takes even longer to switch torches than it does to twist to zoom!
Requirement: Push/Pull Zoom

It has reasonable power.
The P7R outputs around 1000 lumen OTF. In SAR the higher settings are usually reserved for spot modes when searching distance - a good example of this would be scanning the hedge line on the other side of a field. The kcd on the P7R isn’t incredible, I’m not sure what it is, but the throw is only rated to 300m and it struggles for this distance. The width of the zoomed hotspot is good - wider beam is useful for searching, but realistically, it needs a higher output to maintain that beam width with a higher kcd. A great SAR torch would ideally have around 250 kCd when zoomed as this would give a reasonable “searching” distance of up to 500m. I’m guessing around 1500 lumen output at this kCd would still give a good beam width? A wide bright flood is great for lighting up a whole area of grassland at once though, it’s super useful to jump to the high setting and quickly check off a large open area with a good flood. Both of these mean that a higher output wouldn’t need to be maintained for more than ~30 seconds, so this brightness level on turbo is fine. Constant output of around 400/500 lumens would be great.
Requirement: Flood beam ~ 3000 Lumens
Spot beam ~ 1500 Lumens, 250 kCd
Constant output ~ 400/500 lumens without stepdown

It’s rechargeable inside the torch.
Search and Rescue operatives are good at searching, less good with technology (usually). Having it rechargeable inside the torch is probably a hard requirement rather than having to work out dedicated charging solutions. It is also genuinely very useful to be able to charge off of a USB cable in the car or incident control vehicle rather than needing to charge at home.
Requirement: USB charging in the torch.

It’s a smaller/medium sized torch.
These torches are carried for hours at a time and need to fit in load vests and other storage. Coke can size is going to be too wide and anything over 20cm/8in is likely to long.
Requirement: It needs to be a smallish handheld.

It’s pretty weather proof.
We have dedicated diving torches for our water operations, so there’s no need for a submersible rating (though it would be nice for peace of mind) however it does need to be resistant to anything up to submersion. The torches are going to be used whatever the weather!
Requirement: Fully torrential rain proof.

It has a reasonable burn time.
SAR torches are usually run on medium brightness levels with the odd burst of high power. Given that searchers need to be able to go for 8 hours without returning to base, the torch needs to keep up with that. We are able to change batteries “in the field” but we don’t want to be stopping the whole team to do this every hour. I’d expect the torch to manage up to 3 hours on a mid-burn level.
Requirement: 3 Hour burn time for around 400-500 lumen output.

Price.
The fact that the go-to is a relatively expensive P7R shows that SAR operatives are happy to spend a bit extra for a good torch! The kit we buy is self-provided, however. Most of our kit isn’t team issue, unfortunately. This means that it can’t cost the earth as at the end of the day, as a volunteer has still got to be able to afford it.
Requirement: ~ £100 cost.

What do we think, am I totally dreaming for this kind of a torch with todays tech? The closest I’ve been able to find is something like a Convoy Z1 (I’ve put an order in to see what this is like) though I can see that it’s not quite the spec for a couple of points - Not USB chargeable, twist rather than pull zoomie and the 2300LM output is good, with reasonable throw, although slightly longer throw/higher output would be nice as well.

Can anyone suggest anything to fit my (highly demanding) spec list, or am I going to need to wait a bit for technology to catch up?

2

The z1, modified by sky lumens with sbt90 meets those specs except charging.

I do a lot of searching from a boat and am a big zoomie fan. I have found, since I am not backpacking, I am better off with a dedicated aspheric, or LEP, for king range, and a higher lumen light inside 200m.

Fti, You can get 21700 batteries with charging port in them.

3

I hope you have fun here, NBrooke!

4

250kcd and 3,000lm in a zoomie… this immediately discards every adequate emitter in existence except for the SBT90.2

The convoy Z1 you mentioned with the new SFT40 emitter is the closest thing to your needs. There is no kcd numbers but I guess around 180-200kcd, about the same as the osram 2mm2 version.

You won’t notice the difference between 2,000 to 3,000lm. 50kcd might be noticeable.

5

Hi and thanks for the welcome!

I had come across the SBT90.2 modded z1 during my search of the forums, that does seem the closest so far. I did actually put an SBT90 on order along with the Z1, as well as a spare sst40 driver to try and replicate Sky Lumens efforts. Aside from the twist zoom and lack of charging, it did seem like the modded driver struggled with sensible output levels! I’m still interested in investigating this though.

The SFT40 option sounds quite good, 200 kCd sounds reasonable (around 400m usable?), though I though the Lumens dropped to a fair bit below 1000 when fully zoomed in, around 700 I think? Would this not result in a very narrow pencil beam for this range, so even though it gets the distance, searching becomes tricky as the beam is so narrow? I’m aware it’s tough requirements, I wouldn’t be surprised if the end answer is that there just isn’t something that ticks all the boxes at this current time.

6

Are night vision goggles good for SAR as an alternative to a big flashlight? Also large binoculars of course.

7

The team has some hand-held IR equipment, but even that’s expensive enough to mean there’s only a couple - leave alone high quality NVG’s for the whole team! We rely on donations rather than proper funding, unfortunately

8

After a quick search I could not find any reviews of the LedLenser P7R that actually measured outputs or had real run-time charts.
Seeing as how so many light are way overrated by makers, it would be nice to have non-biased confirmation of the specs.
It does look like an interesting light.
I have found zoomies to not really have a very wide flood vs a conventional light that has a wide spill combined with a good hot spot.

Typical zoomy wide beam

vs a Sofirn SP70

vs Streamlight ProTac HL 5-X. A big TIR light that has a very wide spill and a strong central beam. The pic doesn’t show it well.

None of these have in light charging = well the cheap zoomy does but it’s a “1000 Lumen rated” light that actually puts out 300.
All the Best,
Jeff

How much weight are you willing to put up with?

9

Once you’ve had more throw in your hands you won’t want to give it up. The original thrunite catapult comes with a holster and a 26650 battery and is rechargeable. The new one may be an option also. I would aim for a 21700 battery though. Anything except azumi. When you want to look through or beyond the bushes you want a tighter beam. You can scan a field within a few seconds with a tighter beam with some spill. You don’t need all spill.

10

Hello,
SAR professional here in the USA.

First, for SAR I don’t try to do an all in one light.
I have a headlamp for floody, up close work. I use a dedicated thrower for throw. I also have a general use quad light such as an Emissar D4.

Second, I have a couple different lights to switch around depending on where I’m searching and what weather. My searches range from metropolitan city, to 46 C temperature high desert, to 3.5KM mountain peaks with 3M of snow. For extreme temperatures 18650/ 21700 cells simply don’t work so something to consider if your area will be dropping below –10C.

But if you actually do roll up on a victim and you’re on ropes, in a precarious place such as a steep hillside, or busy performing first aid you need a quality headlamp first and foremost. There are no stock monster zoomies other than LED Lensers that I’m aware of, but a zoomie will be a good supplement to a headlamp.

11

I don’t have anything that meets your exact specs but i do know of this link with throwers:

I have a Nitecore P30, it has a successor the P30i which looks good, takes 21700, 1000m of throw, USB charging, but its not a zoomie.
I would seriously consider it though.

12

You’ve got quite a shopping list to fill. Generally zoomie and waterproof aren’t used in the same sentence. However their are a few good TIR lenses that give you throw with controlled flood. I’m not SAR trained, I am however 27 years LEO with lots of night work. The one light that does come to mind is the Streamlight ProTac HL 5-X. It’s 9.5” long with a small enough head to not dig into your side while holstered. Large headed lights are hard to wear and tend to get left behind. Streamlight ProTac HL 5-X has 3 modes:3,500 lumens, 1000 lumens for 3 hours and 250 for 11.5 hours. Those charts were done on their 2600 mah cells. Better 3500 mah cells will get better runtime, 4-CR123A’s are an option. You get 51 kCd giving you 452 meters throw on high, 14.1 kCd/237 meters on medium. It’s got IPX7 waterproofing, rubberized body for good gripping. It does run on 2-18650 cells and another pair should be carried in waterproof container. Pair the cells with letters to keep them in the same pair and member numbers to tell them apart. Recharging takes a couple of hours, not a task out in the field. Priced well under 100 pounds. USB charging in the torch usually involves a rubber cover that tends to fail or pull off with in short order of use. Streamlight does have smaller lights that have an external charger that are slide into to charge. That’s their Stinger series. Streamlight ProTac HL 5-X as a primary work horse. Something like the Convoy L7 as more of a specialize use light. Tough but heavy, maximum 435KCD, 1320 meter throw, very little flood. Very waterproof I put mine in a 6 gallon bucket for 24 hours. Streamlight has good service policies.

13

Note there is such a thing as 18650s designed for low temperatures. I haven’t tried them and don’t know who makes them, but I expect they cost a lot less if you figure out the actual manufacturer:

https://www.fenix-store.com/fenix-arbl18-2900l-cold-resistant-rechargeable-18650-battery/

Added: this is probably similar chemistry, and says some things about limitations at low temperature:

I guess the ability to run on lithium primary cells (L91 AA, or CR123A) when needed is a plus.

14

The P7R run time seems pretty good, I’d believe it on the burntime claims they put out - same for the lumen output, it probably is a genuine 1000lm torch. They claim 300m throw (they don’t but a Cd value) but this is more like 100-150m - don’t have the equipment to measure better than this unfortunately!
Weight isn’t too much of a factor compared to size. It can’t get tjat heavy if it’s limited to being handheld

15

I’m imagining a 21700 battery would be the ideal solution here, yeah. I agree the tight spot is useful a lot of the time in search, I still wouldn’t underestimate the usefulness of the good flood beam though, it gets used a lot

16

Hi Phantom, it’s good to hear an account from SAR across the pond!

I agree it’s not optimal to try for one light to do it all. Some of the team members here do use headlamps for when working up close, I.e. maps or cas handling - I use a shoulder mounted light rather than head torch, but that’s just preference there. Rope or water work also have dedicated lights.

Sounds quite the range of terrain that you get to work with over there! The bit of England I’m based in sounds dull by comparison, shallow hills, fields, lots of woodland and urban searches for us. Temperature extremes aren’t really a consideration for UK Lowland usually. MR more so. Noted about the the temperature limits though, it wouldn’t be a bad idea to have some low temp cells.

The torch described in the OP is more of the “general search torch” that would be used for 90% of the time rather than one that could do everything. I’d say that one like the one described would be optimal for the UK LR use case.

Would you make any adjustments to the specification to make it more useful to your needs? It could be interesting to think of the ‘ultimate’ SAR torch.

17

Some good ideas for torches here, things like the p39 and the convoy L7 (convoy do seem to have some good quality looking lights) looked like impressive options. There’d need to be a fair bit of compromise to meet the full spec, however.

18

I would stick to earlier given suggestions. Separate lights for separate purposes.
So a floody headlight plus a throwy hand light. At least.
The hand light may need an extension tube. For better runtimes AND handling.

This offers two big plusses.
1/ a push-pull zoomie can’t cope with torrential rains (AKA mild English summer).
2/ it gives you a free hand, unless someone else is you “push-puller” :wink:

Spare batteries are to be carried UNDER your coat, in some watertight carrier.
Not in a backpack, or pouch ON your coat. Certainly not when it is freezing.

19

Wow, I had not heard of that Streamlight before:

Pretty impressive for a non-flashaholic light. 3500 lumens, 51000 candela, 2x 18650, built-in USB charging, seems to cost 80 to 100 USD online depending on configuration. It is on the heavy side but probably less finicky than the smaller lights we enthusiasts like to play with.

20

The issue with super bright floody headtorches, when working nearby in a team, is that you often end up dazzling your team mates with the light - not saying it’s not a risk with a hand-held, but it’s a bit easier to control. Lowland rescue go so far as to state in their guidelines that Headtorches should not be used for searching and should be limited to kit/casualty handling and map reading etc.

It’s a valid point that push pull zoomies often struggle with weather proofing, though LedLenser claim IP68 for their P7R - I’ve not tested this underwater but I’ve neither heard of anyone having had a failure. A non-zoomie would be more weather proof, but a zoomie would be weather proof enough (despite the efforts of the British weather!)

I’m not dismissing earlier suggestions though - I’ve put a couple other lights on order to try out in the field. It would still realistically be swapping from a thrower to flooder though, given a floody searching headlight is probably not an option in this particular use case