Nightwatch Chaos NS59v2 is scary!

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TimMc
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Nightwatch Chaos NS59v2 is scary!

Nealsgadgets kindly sent the Nightwatch Chaos NS59v2 for review:
https://timmcmahon.com.au/posts/nightwatch-chaos-ns59v2/

texas shooter
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Nice review. Turbo is way too much for only two cells.

BlueSwordM
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God damn, they upgraded the spring contact system again.

At this point, the cells and cooling are the only limiting factor.

Also, the cells came with a huge capacity difference. That will certainly be problematic for cycle life.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

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Great job on a fantastic review! 

 

Thanks Tim!

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I would like to see a test with Samsung 30Ts and see how they compare to the Lishens. The Samsung 30T I think is actually underrated as far as amp draw as they run really cool at a 35amp discharge test. My guess is that they would at the very least be equal to the Lishen HPs.

Haukkeli
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I tried max amps of my V1 with XHP50.3 Hi 90cri’s using 2 different batteries. Lishen HP 3000mAh—>48A, Molicel P45B—>50A.

BlueSwordM
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@Rockenrooster yeah.

Personally, I’d prefer seeing the Samsung 30T and Molicel P45Bs be tested for this.

Actually, even better: test the Samsung 30T and Molicel P45B cells warmed up to 35C to see how much power you can really squeeze out of the light Smile

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

Rockenrooster
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Haukkeli wrote:
I tried max amps of my V1 with XHP50.3 Hi 90cri’s using 2 different batteries. Lishen HP 3000mAh—>48A, Molicel P45B—>50A.

BlueSwordM wrote:
@Rockenrooster yeah.

Personally, I’d prefer seeing the Samsung 30T and Molicel P45Bs be tested for this.

Actually, even better: test the Samsung 30T and Molicel P45B cells warmed up to 35C to see how much power you can really squeeze out of the light Smile


This is the first time i’m hearing of the P45B, where can I buy those!?
cannga
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>>>>>>
There is low voltage protection but the battery might drain to 0V if you leave it on for a few days. The torch started flashing around 5.93V to indicate that the voltage is low. It turned off at 5.82V and a current of 53mA continued to be drawn.
>>>>>>

Could you pls explain the 53 mA current draw? This is a continuous drain when light is off? Any idea what causes it? Thanks.

Some favorite LED's: Nichia 219b & B35AM (Ra~98 R9~99), Getian GT-FC40 4500k, Luminus SBT90.2

Helpful & xtremely fun accessories: Texas Ace Lumen Tube - Opple Meter 

4 lights I'd buy were I to start again: Here (IMHO)

Haukkeli
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Rockenrooster wrote:
Haukkeli wrote:
I tried max amps of my V1 with XHP50.3 Hi 90cri’s using 2 different batteries. Lishen HP 3000mAh—>48A, Molicel P45B—>50A.

BlueSwordM wrote:
@Rockenrooster yeah.

Personally, I’d prefer seeing the Samsung 30T and Molicel P45Bs be tested for this.

Actually, even better: test the Samsung 30T and Molicel P45B cells warmed up to 35C to see how much power you can really squeeze out of the light Smile


This is the first time i’m hearing of the P45B, where can I buy those!?

NKON had them last time I checked
Hoop
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Critique of this review:
No tear down. No mention of what mechanical switch is in it. No details about or photos of the driver.

TimMc
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cannga wrote:
>>>>>>
There is low voltage protection but the battery might drain to 0V if you leave it on for a few days. The torch started flashing around 5.93V to indicate that the voltage is low. It turned off at 5.82V and a current of 53mA continued to be drawn.
>>>>>>

Could you pls explain the 53 mA current draw? This is a continuous drain when light is off? Any idea what causes it? Thanks.

I hooked the head of the flashlight up to a bench power supply via digital multimeter (measuring current) and set the voltage to 8.4V and gradually turned it down to 5.93V.

The current continued at 53mA when the voltage went below 5.93V and the LED was off. This could be an LVP issue.

Photon Master
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Can’t wait to get mine. My boy Neal said that there are LED shortages or something and offered to let me order another light. I’m in no particular hurry but this puppy will be a fun toy! I like being able to carry an extra pair of batteries instead of sitting there waiting for some stupid proprietary USB charger to take hours to charge the internal battery cough Imalent cough

TimMc
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Rockenrooster wrote:
This is the first time i’m hearing of the P45B, where can I buy those!?

Vapcell have some P45B but they’re a bit expensive at this point in time. They might be cheaper when they’re more widely available.

I currently don’t have 30T or P45B handy to test. I have Samsung 40T, Vapcell T50, Lishen LR2170HP, various Sofirn/Wurkkos 21700 cells, and some Weltool and Cyansky 21700 cells with built-in USB-C chargers.

TimMc
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Photon Master wrote:
My boy Neal said that there are LED shortages

SFQ60.3 6000K seems to be out of stock. Nightwatch are making NS59V2 with XHP50.3 HD 6500K. It looks floodier and might hit 38k lumens instead of 31k lumens. I wonder if they’ll continue to make it with SFQ60.3… XHP50.3 looks nice on paper too.

cannga
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BlueSwordM wrote:
…. Also, the cells came with a huge capacity difference. That will be a big problem for later on.

Could you pls explain why you wrote the above? Are you referring to the 2 batteries in the tested light having different voltages? What kind of problem? Thanks.

Some favorite LED's: Nichia 219b & B35AM (Ra~98 R9~99), Getian GT-FC40 4500k, Luminus SBT90.2

Helpful & xtremely fun accessories: Texas Ace Lumen Tube - Opple Meter 

4 lights I'd buy were I to start again: Here (IMHO)

TimMc
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Hoop wrote:
Critique of this review: No tear down. No mention of what mechanical switch is in it. No details about or photos of the driver.

Thanks for the feedback. The review format that I use is heavily influenced by 1lumen, tacgriz and zeroair. I.e. “User interface and driver” is one section that I try to cover but I rarely delve into details about the driver.

Here’s a teardown of the driver and tailswitch:
https://timmcmahon.com.au/posts/nightwatch-chaos-ns59v2/#driver

Funtastic
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Cells are running in series so the flashlight is only seeing one voltage reading. If one cell isn’t matched in capacity it’s going to discharge lower than the other cell, this is a rather large issue if it discharges past 2.5v

Piercing The Darkness YouTube channel – https://www.youtube.com/c/PiercingTheDarkness

cannga
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TimMc wrote:
cannga wrote:
>>>>>>
There is low voltage protection but the battery might drain to 0V if you leave it on for a few days. The torch started flashing around 5.93V to indicate that the voltage is low. It turned off at 5.82V and a current of 53mA continued to be drawn.
>>>>>>

Could you pls explain the 53 mA current draw? This is a continuous drain when light is off? Any idea what causes it? Thanks.

I hooked the head of the flashlight up to a bench power supply via digital multimeter (measuring current) and set the voltage to 8.4V and gradually turned it down to 5.93V.

The current continued at 53mA when the voltage went below 5.93V and the LED was off. This could be an LVP issue.

Thanks Tim for the good review. I looked up the Acebeam X75 or Imalent MS18 since you mentioned they are “flooders with longer runtimes if money is not a concern.” After I see the cost of those 2 lights I would say money is always a concern Smile . The Chaos is extremely attractive at $128, but how do I know that it would ship with SFQ60.3 leds?

Some favorite LED's: Nichia 219b & B35AM (Ra~98 R9~99), Getian GT-FC40 4500k, Luminus SBT90.2

Helpful & xtremely fun accessories: Texas Ace Lumen Tube - Opple Meter 

4 lights I'd buy were I to start again: Here (IMHO)

texas shooter
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TimMc wrote:
Photon Master wrote:
My boy Neal said that there are LED shortages

SFQ60.3 6000K seems to be out of stock. Nightwatch are making NS59V2 with XHP50.3 HD 6500K. It looks floodier and might hit 38k lumens instead of 31k lumens. I wonder if they’ll continue to make it with SFQ60.3… XHP50.3 looks nice on paper too.

Sources please. I’m also thinking the XHP50.3 is a good alternative. But all my searches about Nightwatch keeps coming back the Neal. Is it his own brand?

BlueSwordM
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@cannga, when you have cells in series, any deviation in capacity will result in reduced usable capacity and cycle life, which gets worse as they get cycled.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

TimMc
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texas shooter wrote:
Sources please. I’m also thinking the XHP50.3 is a good alternative. But all my searches about Nightwatch keeps coming back the Neal. Is it his own brand?

Nightwatch has a Taobao store. I don’t think they ship to all countries. Neal stocks them and ships internationally.

geforce73 on reddit appears to have read product descriptions written in Chinese on Taobao and created a table in English to describe the differences between various models:
https://www.reddit.com/r/flashlight/comments/ymqta7/new_nightwatch_flash...

I have no vested interest in sharing the taobao link but here it is:
https://www.taobao.com/list/item/wap/671140993338.htm

You might need the Taobao app installed to view product information…

zoulas
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Nice review. A better design would be 3 × 21700 in a soda can format.

Photon Master
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zoulas wrote:
Nice review. A better design would be 3 × 21700 in a soda can format.

Three 21700s in series? Smile
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It would be interesting to measure the switch resistance. Does the tailcap get hot during turbo?

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TimMc wrote:
Here’s a teardown of the driver and tailswitch: https://timmcmahon.com.au/posts/nightwatch-chaos-ns59v2/#driver

Thank you for adding this tear down Tim. I am glad it went back together for you afterwards.

Not enough thermal paste under the MCPCB might be a slight problem!

The switch appears to have a removable cover over it. I’m not sure what make it is, but it sure has to pass a lot of amps!

Looks like the driver relies on direct drive for turbo and high modes, at least initially, and buck regulation for the other modes.

TimMc
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thefreeman wrote:
Does the tailcap get hot during turbo?

While using an infrared thermometer, I did not notice the tailcap get hotter than the rest of the body. The head was hottest, and it became cooler as I measured closer to the end of the tailcap.

Hoop wrote:
Not enough thermal paste under the MCPCB might be a slight problem!

Yeah. The lack of thermal paste is a concern. I am lucky that some LEDs did not burn themselves.

It’s worth replacing the thermal paste and spreading it around properly. The driver wires are a bit difficult to desolder and solder. I cut the wires with flush cutters at the joint, cleaned off solder from the board, added some flux and added some more solder. The solder joints need to be neat and tidy or they might touch the metal reflector and create a short.

It would have been nice to see four screws used instead of one for the MCPCB too. There are four threaded holes but I only found one screw.

This is definitely a budget torch for enthusiasts. Scary fun! Silly

cannga
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TimMc wrote:
…. This is definitely a budget torch for enthusiasts. Scary fun! Silly

Now you’ve done it; I like to be scared by a flashlight! Smile Kidding aside this has been a fun thread to read not least because of your (and others’) experience & knowledge. I like the teardown’s discussion even though I have no experience re. DIY stuffs. But… I would like to ask an important question since we are after all in the land of “budget lights” (a really unusual name that gave my wife a chuckle the first time she saw it, as in “you, hobby, budget?!”).

What I like about the Wurkkos TS30S is, for me anyway, there is nothing like it at 60 bucks (SBT-90, 1000m throw, ~4000 lm, USB-C).

I know you chose the Chaos out of many lights to review, so it’s special. But could you (or anyone reading this) say the same about the Chaos? Is there anything like it at $120? Any flooder with this much lumen at this price? If you say no, that IMHO would narrow the focus and mean a lot to potential buyers.

Some favorite LED's: Nichia 219b & B35AM (Ra~98 R9~99), Getian GT-FC40 4500k, Luminus SBT90.2

Helpful & xtremely fun accessories: Texas Ace Lumen Tube - Opple Meter 

4 lights I'd buy were I to start again: Here (IMHO)

TimMc
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cannga wrote:
What I like about the Wurkkos TS30S is, for me anyway, there is nothing like it at 60 bucks (SBT-90, 1000m throw, ~4000 lm, USB-C).

I know you chose the Chaos out of many lights to review, so it’s special. But could you (or anyone reading this) say the same about the Chaos? Is there anything like it at $120? Any flooder with this much lumen at this price? If you say no, that IMHO would narrow the focus and mean a lot to potential buyers.

I haven’t found anything else around US$100 that can hit 31k lumens.

I pushed a Sofirn Q8 Plus hard with 3x Lishen LR2170HP cells and broke it after reaching 28k lumens on Turbo. 28,987 lm at turn on. 10,544 lm at 30 seconds.

1lumen published a relevant article recently for brightest flashlights:
https://1lumen.com/brightest-flashlight/#brightest-flashlight-below-100

Nightwatch Chaos NS59v2 is about US$96 after discount so it might fit into the “Brightest flashlights below $100” category. It reaches about 31k lumens which almost enters the category of “The brightest flashlights in the world you can buy today”.

A few budget flooders come to mind:
Nightwatch NS73v2
Nightwatch NSX4
Sofirn SP36 Pro
Sofirn Q8 Pro
Sofirn Q8 Plus

Those Sofirn soda can flashlights have built-in charging and an Anduril user interface. Charging, battery type, user interface etc may be other considerations. I just wanted a cheap flooder for the thrill. Silly

parametrek has a database of flashlights and you can search by lumens. It may not have everything (flashlights that don’t have a product page online might be omitted, e.g. Nightwatch). The price starts to go into hundreds of dollars when looking at 30k+ lumens.

http://flashlights.parametrek.com/index.html?lumens=5000,_

cannga
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TimMc wrote:
Nightwatch Chaos NS59v2 is about US$96 after discount so it might fit into the “Brightest flashlights below $100” category. It reaches about 31k lumens which almost enters the category of “The brightest flashlights in the world you can buy today”.

Thanks Tim, the subject is definitely in focus now. Smile

How to get that discount you mentioned pls? I only see $128 on Neal’s website.

BTW per Neal by email:
“Not in stock now, will be restock next week
It is SFQ60.3 LED

Some favorite LED's: Nichia 219b & B35AM (Ra~98 R9~99), Getian GT-FC40 4500k, Luminus SBT90.2

Helpful & xtremely fun accessories: Texas Ace Lumen Tube - Opple Meter 

4 lights I'd buy were I to start again: Here (IMHO)

TimMc
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