cool story 
Almost have lights that would shine through the metal roof of the car, and she’s impressing with that low powered job. Geesh! lol
I’ve got an AW 3400mAh protected cell in it, the thing lasts forever! Cheap DX P-60 drop in. Seriously, like $8 or something.
The flashaholic world is very similar to the photographers world, the best one you have is the one you have WITH you! 
I light up that pesky coyote, THEN I throw that IS sphere at it…take that coyote!
Yea, but as you said the numbers can be fun as well, no? Anyway, I’m understanding the in the ballpark stuff.
Cheers
1. With the direct drive FET drivers (such as in the M6) we are limited in output mainly by the amount of voltage sag of the batteries due to the vF requirements of the emitters we use (which also works to our advantage in some cases allowing us to run direct drive from 1S lithium ion cells.) To get high output we need to maintain a high voltage level.
Batteries with higher maximum drain capacities generally have a lower internal resistance which leads to less voltage sag under any given load. The higher maintained voltage allows us to take advantage of the higher vF and draw more amps, leading to more light output (with less efficiency in most cases, but since we're generally after the most amount of light in the smallest package, we live with it!)
So, even though we are not coming close to taking advantage of the full maximum discharge capabilities of these cells, we do take advantage of their lower internal resistance with the associated lower voltage sag under load.
2. If we were using a boost driver then yes, the amp draw would increase as the battery voltage decreased to maintain the same current level. In our direct drive drivers the opposite happens and the current draw always decreases along with the voltage decrease (again, due to the LED's vF). Unfortunately boost drivers capable of high sustained output are difficult (or impossible) to fit into the small spaces needed to work in most of our 17mm/20mm compartment lights. I'm sure that there is space for one in the 46mm SRK style lights, but there isn't a "budget" option available yet. There are some lower amp buck/boost drivers available in 17mm, but they generally cap out at around 1A-1.5A.
When we're talking about vF (forward voltage), here's a graph by fellow forum member Match that illustrates what we're talking about.
For example, if the voltage is lower than 3.5v, the emitter will not pass any more current than 3.2A. This is why we use high drain (low resistance) cells, copper braid springs, etc. to try and minimize resistance and voltage sag in these lights.
If we parallel multiple emitters we can draw much more overall current from a single cell than with one single emitter. This is why the triple XP-G2s will easily hit 5.8A with a PF/BD cell, and even a which may only do 4A into a single XP-G2 emitter direct drive and only while fresh. In this case it is better to go with the higher capacity 2900mAh/3200mAh cell vs the 2000mAh-2500mAh "high drain" cells since you are gaining anything from using them (and are in fact just wasting more energy to heat in the 7135 drivers.)
The MT-G2 has a relatively low vF requirement when compared to the XM-L2. For example, a purple Efest 18350 will do about 6A direct drive into an XM-L2 on copper but it (a pair of them in series) will do over 10A into an MT-G2 on copper.
Also, vF is affected greatly by temperature, with the vF requirement generally getting lower as the LED die temperature rises. You can hook a battery up direct drive to a poorly heat sinked LED and watch the amps climb as it heats up. Many have observed lower amps when switching from an aluminum MCPCB to a copper MCPCB; however, even at a slightly lower peak amp draw a copper MCPCB is generally more efficient and will put out more lumens because LED efficiency is also directly linked to die temperature.
I agree completely. I have tested mine again some factory lights and for consistency and it seems pretty close, but it is by no means a perfect system and I am not a perfect operator. That said, it is nice to be able to see the lumens gained/lost during a particular mod so you can really see what's going on. The eye is a very poor light meter. Shining at a wall that is only 20-30 feet away it is difficult for me to tell which light has 8,000 lumens and which light has 10,000 lumens, but the meter can tell. I can tell if I compare them back to back at a longer distance but after you get over 1,000-1,500 lumens it requires an increasingly large gain to be visually noticeable against a wall.
Well said and a great explanation.
Thank you.
Hope no one thought I was disagreeing. What is said here had been repeated in several threads and private messages. What I was looking for, several posts up, was if any of the M6, Mod 1 owners calculated with their output with standard cells. Just wanted to know if I was in the “ballpark”.
Thx, Mike
Here’s some ballpark to play in, don’t worry, they’ve taken the fences down….
How about the Sinner Cypreus, a very small all copper light that uses an 18350 cell. In this case, a freshly charged Efest Purple 18350 High Discharge cell. And a triple Noctigon populated with XP-L’s that are de-domed with a Carclo 10507 optic. The driver is an BLF17DD with 7 modes.
In OTF lumens on my lightbox
- is 9.3
- is 41.12
- is 107.98
- is 277.38
- is 1221.30
- is 1949.25
- is 2960.10
Turbo is pulling, at the very least, 8.67A from this tiny cell! (output in the front, through the lens, burned me and I couldn’t hold it to see if it was still climbing!)
I used the aluminum spacer for triples that I got from Richard, in this otherwise all copper light. The original pill is copper, now with the aluminum sink sandwiched in.
Would you have any of your M6 lights or the reading you got from them written down? Just curious if any one has any of Richards Mod 1 lights.
I read the mod 2 post up from Richwouldnt. (!)
Thanks,
Mike
I’m interested as well, thanks.
omg
Actually I asked about levels out for the M6 in post 2421 and DBCstm replied with his figures in post 2443 but it is unclear to me that his code and resulting output levels are the same as what Richard uses. I would like to see Richards test results for BOTH software versions AND the results for the SRK at all levels as it apparently responds to the low numbers considerably different than the M6. It’s lowest output levels are not nearly as low as the M6 gives.
For these unregulated lights always great if batteries used are specified which is seldom done. I do have some 2500 mAh 25R Samsung button tops on order from Richard as well as some of the 10 amp Panasonic 2900 mAh button tops.
ABSOLUTELY OUTRAGEOUS! How long until complete meltdown? I presume that levels 6 and 7 require use of an asbestos glove after 15 to 30 seconds or so. The absolute epitome of the “pocket torch” as our limey friends would say. In this case though it can torch your pocket literally.
Well, since I build my lights to use it’s not in my best interest to see where exactly meltdown is.
I’m a bit afraid for the switch in this one, to be honest, and am surprised it’s taken the abuse I’ve given it for so long. So yeah, that said, kinda scared to run 9A long enough to see where it’s going because I feel the answer to that is OFF. And staying there. I guess though, that it’s best to have an idea what it’s gonna do before I start carrying it again, best it go poof here than out there in use somewhere right. Geesh! I really like this light! Going there is, well, painful! 
I video’d this so I could check time and both numbers…at start it hit 9.37A, fell down towards 8A and stabilized, was at 7.92A after 2 minutes, with output on the box showing 2252 lumens and I had to stop, freakishly hot! How that little cell was holding 8A is beyond me!
I totally missed that post but caught 7 levels and then high current cells in another post. Maybe Dale could clarify for us? I think I had 9 amps or so with my old Sony 2250mA cells.
My SRK clone has the 7135 board and the the low end is totally different from the M6 FET board.
I want some 25R cells but will have to wait to next month or so…to many toys.
This could also be posted in the you know your a flashaholic… I just started a family reunion and I’m reading these posts and languishing waiting to get home when my Cypreus with copper spacer and the rest as described by Dale. I’m having fun here but oooh, I can’t wait to put it all together after this trip is up. Ya’all are killing me. :_(
I built it in conjunction with Richard, he mentor’ed me on it as it were. I find it difficult to pull back from 100%. The full blown dragster is pulling 16-18A, maybe more! You start out holding a neat moon mode soup can, and a few clicks later you have a cinder in your hand!
Gonna have to get Richard to illuminate the cell differences and level of build differences. Sorry.
I watched the video again to see exactly what was taking place. The amperage fell down to around 7.69A then starting climbing slowly back up. I didn’t make a full 2 minutes but only a minute and a half, at which point the amperage was back up to 7.92A. But the heat at the head got unbearable, even in just that 1 1/2 minutes on Turbo. The output stabilized pretty well around the 2300 lumen mark for a while, surprising it stabilized anywhere considering the size of this light and the power level of the 3 emitters.
Obviously, Turbo isn’t something that could be used for very long. The lower modes are nice, even level 5 at 1200 lumens seems very bright, level 6 makes you think you’ve reached the top and level 7 is just nuts.
Levels 1 through 4 may be nice useful modes that can used for a while, and hey, 275 lumens is a lot of light under most circumstances. The other, drain the cell modes are just FUN!
Next Mod 1 and Mod 2 I build I will get lumens measurements of all the levels and post them here, instead of just the highest level. The other ones I have never measured...I just went by what looked good to me.