Being as how I re-flow soldered the Noctigon stars to the copper pills, I now have to remove the driver from the pill and dunk the entire thing in the gas. I’ll drop them in tonight and they’ll be good to go in the morning. Tomorrow I’ll slice the big dome. Then we start over with the beam shots! 
Both the XP-G2 and XM-L2 are 1A tint bins, so they should do well with the de-dome. The obvious color difference between them right now has me worried that the XM-L2 might end up on the green side, which I can’t stand. Oh well, we’ll see.
If its too green put a drop of red #2 on it and watch it go crazy.
Love it! Please keep us posted. (Maybe something with an MT-G2 is in the cards for the mod-a-palooza this year.)
You can do that Scott? Dye the die? lol Don’t know about that…
Will do ruffles 
The 2 smaller emitters are in the gas, pill and all. Some new numbers are in the spreadsheet showing how the MT-G2 reacts with the stock aluminum pill at 2.97A. It drops more, but the heat is almost exactly the same. I’m betting the differences will be much more major with some chips stacked on that driver…
That difference is still significant. At 30 secs on alum pill, output is less than 2 minutes on copper pill.
I have the lights de-domed/shaved, am about to get lux numbers and throw. Will start beamshots tonight. Quite a few lumens lost in total for these 3 lights. Batteries are just now back up from the lumens testing, so it’s time for a lux run.
I’ll be back.
And yes Tom, I think it’s pretty obvious the copper is doing it’s job. Will be more so at higher levels.
Thanks for the update! I can imagine that the copper pill helps more with the MT-G2... it is putting out approximately twice as much heat as the XM-L2 / XP-G2. V=IR, Watts=IV
Hoping to see the 20% lumens loss and double the kcd gain (for the XM-L2 ans XP-G2 at least), if all goes accordingly. Generally that's what I've been seeing. This is a very interesting set of experiments in deed...
Most importantly it is well documented (and great beamshots!) and controlled, where what's been done up til now is all over the place. Obviously one could argue about the small sample size of the testing, and debate equality of parts, what data points have been selected, quality of the instruments and techniques, etc., etc., but it is what it is, and has to be taken as such. It's not possible to do much more, for time and costs can easily go totally insane.
I'm liking how this is playing out!
Wonderful job ! Oddly enough I think no one did it before.
I’m surprised that the XP-G2 don’t throw much more than XM-L2… Maybe because the reflector is angled for XM-L beam ?
Can’t wait for the dedomed results.
New data in the spreadsheet, and some beamshots inside while waiting for dark thirty.
I'll do a mouseover here with the base shot being the original and the mouseover being the de-dome/slice
1st up, the XP-G2...
And the XM-L2...
And the MT-G2
I made the mistake of not double checking the camera settings from the 1st set, so these are probably not even valid comparisons. You can see, however, that the XM-L2 did indeed go green. Doesn't look like it was really a 1A, luck of the draw I reckon. The XP-G2 maintained tint quite nicely, as has the MT-G2. Will be getting the red oil drum shots tonight, not sure when I'll be able to re-do the football field and trail shots, might have to wait til Saturday unless I can find some help.
Percentage wise, gains/loss's were lower than the 20%/100% for lumens/kcd. Maybe because of the lower amps - I'm used to 3.85A and above... It's all good though ... Again, an interesting result from this testing.
It went totally green. Yikes.
Yeah Tom, but the game ain't over...I have to get a series of beam shots of these de-domed, then I'm stacking chips. Still hope to get out and get some basic beam shots tonight for a first glimpse of the de-domed emitters at 97 yds.
“Dye the die” was sort of a joke. Red #2 was the culprit for many a hyperactive kid back in the day.
In reviewing the #'s and configs, I forgot that all these tests are done with the stock OP reflector, which I've never used. So, I have no history with high amps, XP-G2's, XM-L2's, or de-doming with an OP in a C8. Sure that's part of the reason why #'s are different then what I might have expected.
XM-L (2s) in general seem to have a way higher risk of getting a messed up tint after de-dome. To me, most XM-l2 U2 1As get a tint that I would consider unacceptable. Then again, Im usually picky when it comes to these things. Its a bit random though. I have one XM-l2 U2 1A that dedomed very nicely. Im not sure if there is a special trick that will make them turn less green/yellowish. Hopefully someone will find a trick that consistently makes them less bad. Dales XM-L2 seems to have turned into a tint that I consider "unacceptable". Mixing overly yellow/greenish emitters with something that have more red/pink tone luckily makes wonders.
In general XP-G2s seems to de-dome better in terms of tint, based on what I have seen. Your de-domed XP-G2 seems to do well too, based on beamshots.
Personally, im not familiar with "slice and dice" of MT-G2s, but based on the numbers, isnt it at bit disappointing? (maybe its the reflector in the C8?) There is minimal gain in lux, but a "significant" loss in lumens. I though it would throw better.. What do you think Dale? Or others who are familiar with de-domed/sliced MT-G2s?
I recently modded two C8 lights that I have used some the last days.
-Tangsfire C8 (stock emitter) mounted on Noctigon, AR lens, copper braided springs. Peak output at around 5,8-6A with fresh 20R cell. Really impressive for a light that cost around 16,5$ total after mod.
-Convoy C8 was built with XM-L2 T6 3C on Noctigon, 4,5A Qlite, AR lens, copper braided springs.
The Tangsfire C8 seriously outthrows the 4,45A Convoy. And its way more impressive as a "wow" light. But the smooth beam of the Convoy C8 OP reflector is really nice for general use. On a outdoor trip I ended up using the Convoy C8 for most of the outdoor walking instead of the Tangsfire with a SMO (and slightly deeper) reflector.
So just to state the obvious again, the OP reflector does kill throw. People who want max throw are better off with a SMO reflector. Im not sure how much sense it is to de-dome an emitter in order to increase throw and use OP reflector. Just sharing some observations. I think its nice that you use the stock OP reflector for everything. Makes all numbers more comparable.
Thanks for doing alu pill. Ill look into the numbers another day when Im less tired. Btw, is the sliced MT-G2 on alu or copper pill? (currently no info on that).
The XP-G2 1A did well, the XM-L2, not so much. I've had luck with the XM-L2 before, which makes me think this one isn't the correct bin or at the wrong end of the parameters for that bin.
De-doming or slicing the MT-G2 is just wrong. That's my opinion after doing a few. The natural tint and floodiness is just superb and anything else is a waste of the $20. Again, just my 2 cents worth.
I just successfully put an MT-G2 in a chopped AA mini mag. No room for a reflector, the glass actually presses the dome slightly. It's running 3A, making 1345.5 OTF in the lightbox as a mule. Hold it about 16" from the ground and it lights up a 4' diameter circle on the ground. No rings, no artifacts, just nice white light with that creamy elegance that I so love the MT-G2 for. I'm running it on 2 of Guy's Nukes (Matchbox Instruments), the specially made 10250 high discharge cell that has 80mAh of capacity. Nope, they don't last long at all pushing this fat boy at 3A!!! 14250's on order...but they're not IMR chemistry and I think they're protected so they surely won't make that 3A mark. We'll see.
Should I look into getting mirror finished reflectors for these 3 lights? Might be worth a 5th step, lol. Anyone know the quickest place to order these to get em to Texas?
I just stacked 4 chips on each driver and pulled the offending green XM-L2 for an IS XM-L2 3C. Never used an IS copper star before so I don’t know how it compares. So now each light has a different manufacture copper star. I didn’t de-dome the 3C as I don’t like the results of de-doming lower tint bins. Didn’t like the result of that last 1A either for that matter. The tint of the 3C is a slight rose color but stand alone it looks great, the rose hue shows next to the XP-G2 R5 1A de-domed beam, which by comparison shows a bit of green. The MT-G2 is kickin! I’ll get some tests in the lightbox then the red oil drum beamshots tonight. Batteries are charging and the tests are about to begin.
Yes, I skipped the de-dome beamshots at the football field and trail, but will retake those with the power bump. The Sanyo UR18650FJ lap pull cells don’t seem capable of what the power bump just gained, so I might have to switch cells. Preliminary results show some 3.69A which will probably be bested by a PF or 20R by quite a bit. Not really a skewed comparison, as the Sanyo’s were making the grade at 3A level, regulation chips would have held back the primary gains of the better cells. I’ll test both, see how it goes.
The MT-G2 is still in the aluminum pill, but now running some 4.45A Should prove interesting to see the numbers in Al, then how they compare in Cu. Guess nobody’s interested in that though…
Relic38 have showed their IS copper star is just as good/on level with Sinkpad (1) and Noctigon in terms of performance.
For me, your red oil drum beamshots shows throw and flood better than how you did the shots on the other locations. Personally I don't see the point of doing those locations on top of your normal beamshot location.
Putting in a lower bin XM-L2 T6 3C makes the throw comparison a bit flawed IMO. You are obviously making the de-domed XP-G2 into the throw champion. It would be interesting to see de-domed XP-G2 at peak output with 20R cell vs de-domed XM-L2 at peak output with 20R cell. Ill guess we will not see that now..
You are stacking 350mA regulators on a Qlite right? If so its similar to one of my Convoy C8 with T6 3C. Are you using stock lens btw? Id like to try and compare your numbers with my own since Im just getting into lux readings and such. :)
Just use some freshly charged 20R cells from now on in order to more easily get peak output. Copper braid the springs too. We dont need a battery comparison, so skip the PF cells.
About your aluminium vs copper measurements
Startup shows 0,98% gain vs alu
30 sec shows 3,58% gain vs alu
60 sec shows 4,06% gain vs alu
120 sec shows 4,14% gain vs alu
3A to an MT-G2 is about 19,2W (Im using graphs from djozz)
In order for an XM-L2 to run at 19,2W it needs about 5,2A.
Not sure if gain would be similar with an XM-L2 at 5,2A, but maybe they are due to having similar energy? If so, you might have seen around 4% gain with an XM-L2 at around 5,2A.
Gain from 1-2 minutes is not much, seems like its "leveling out" at 4%+ gain. These are so far the numbers that show the highest gain we have seen with copper pill. (I hope others who reads this and have a copper pill will compare too and see if they similar results).
I look forward to see how these numbers look when the MT-G2 is pushed even harder (beyond heat levels you can push an XM-L2 too). :) Maybe you could extend the alu vs copper runtime measurements more than 2 minutes on the MT-G2 C8?
The MT-G2 at 2.97A is making 23.166 watts (2.97 x 7.8V from the 2 18350 under load) Dividing 23.166 by the 6.1Vf of the emitter yields an extrapolated 3.8A to the emitter. Plenty of power to make some serious heat, even in the big copper pill. That heat is migrating outward through the host, as evidenced by the quick temperature rise at the head, and in normal use conditions would probably dissipate through the hand or moving air, but in the foam surround sitting on the lightbox there’s nowhere for it to go.
I can probably de-dome a second XM-L2 U2 1A and hope for a better tint, to run it in the powered up C8 and keep comparisons on a level with the de-domed XP-G2 and sliced-n-diced MT-G2. I could even take it further and max out the power on that XM-L2 to show that it indeed would leave the XP-G2 behind when pushed. I think most of know already that this is exactly what would happen. But, at present I think it’s pretty easy to see where each emitter has it’s merits and the 3 lights give a good idea which way to go to meet preferences.
I thought I showed the MT-G2 in both copper and aluminum up to 3 minutes? Not really willing to take the light beyond 140º. No sense in killing it to prove a point. The MT-G2 needs mass, plenty of it, to take the heat it makes when pushed.
I think it might also be interesting to see how these all perform with a mirrored reflector as compared to the OP one, while I also like to use AR coated lenses, I’m pretty sure it’d be difficult to tell the difference. And yes, I used the 20R cells for testing the 2 smaller emitters when power levels were bumped as the Sanyo cells couldn’t keep up.
I just put some pics taken this evening in post one, shots taken on the football field with the powered up lights, this time with markers at the 20 yd lines to help show the distance. Still 120 yds between the light and the opposite goal post. I included wide angle as well as zoomed in shots. Clickable for larger images.
I might put together some images in Photoshop such that before and after pics would show side by side, 3 high for all the lights ( so 6 pics in a single pic for viewing purposes) Would that help bring it all together?