LG video threatening fines and jail time for consumers using their cells

I found this video rather offensive and overly simplified. They are pretty much calling us criminals for using Li-Ion cylindrical cells.

I know the industry frowns upon their use but this seems extreme.

Video: https://youtu.be/WuLqppTioxk

NP, there are other horses in the race.

(I don’t like the doodoo brown of the ones I have anyway.)

Well they did say you could use cells with protection circuits, not at a “do not use any cells” blanket from what it looks.

Well I don’t see where this video is wrong, it’s valid for more than half of the people using lithium Ion cells. I had a hard time explaining to my friends why not all 18650s are the same. Now imagine someone who is new to the vaping world with zero battery knowledge and all the research he has done is via various ebay seller with fake capacity and output capability claims for its products…

I strongly doubt that the electrical appliances and consumer product safety control act 19 referred to in the video is going to matter much to those of us not living in Korea :slight_smile:

Everything I saw apparently pointed to Korean law, nowhere else. I don't see how LG or Korea could reach across borders to enforce their laws. It's likely a dog & pony CYA legal show to keep LG off the hook.

But...

Don't be sunrprised if nanny state types in the U.S. get their panties so tightly bunched at this New And Terrible Threat that they regurgitate some sort of intellectual diarrhea legislation intended to protect us from ourselves by mandating protection circuits and other controls on LiIon cells.

I can hear it now:

"We need common sense cell laws! No Standard Citizen needs over a thousand lumens!!! These weapons against darkness should only be in the hands of trained professionals! No one needs more than one cell! High capacity flashlights that hold more than one cell should be banned! Cells should be limited to no more than 1,000 mAh capacity, 1A output and strictly registered, with a 72 hr. waiting period."

slmjim

I would think researching ways to make safer cells for consumers is a better idea. While pushing for better consumer knowledge. Wrap a battery safety pamphlet around cells sold to consumers, etc. Maybe one that covers the terminals. Forcing you to read to figure out how to remove it.

Just some random thoughts off the top of my head.

Anything can be dangerous. I remember a local lady died like 5-7 years back by drinking too much water, for a contest, and died. We didn’t ban waterfaucet when that happened.

Dihydrogen monoxide (aka oxygen dihydride) can be a dangerous thing if not used with moderation. :wink:

That was almost 13 years ago. I feel old.

That video looks completely fair to me, a battery company explaining to the vast majority of people who do not have a clue, why their batteries should not be used without protection circuits. Seems fair enough that they want to explain that for those accidents the batteries themselves are not to blame, and a good idea to me to educate the public about the necessity of protection electronics.

Those flashlight weirdo’s will not care less about such a video anyway :smiley:

But I agree with some posters above, that cilindrical li-ion cells are so useful that maybe another more constructive approach could be is developing a version of the cilindrical li-ion cell that can handle the mechanical stress of getting tossed around and that self-contains all care and protection electronics. So not some third-party add-ons like the protected cells we have now but done reliably during fabrication of the cells themselves.

^ This, safety-by-design is a very useful pattern.

The risks of Li-ion cells are real, both in regard to fire risk as well as toxic fluoride gas emissions in case of such fires as health risk.
Consumers will do all kind of weird things given large enough populations.
With great power comes great responsibility.

I agree completely - the nativity of most people is staggering, however you do have to question whether your average ‘joe bloggs’ should be able to buy them. 99% of those joe bloggs not only don’t understand the risks, they buy cheap ass chargers and fake batteries (usually supplied by the seller) - no warnings, nothing. THIS is the real problem, and you aren’t going to cure that, ever.
Just this week someone on another type of forum someone put a deal up for Amazon (a 3rd party seller) one of those cheap zoomies, a battery and charger for £6. We wouldn’t buy it obviously , but thousands do. It even has 5 star reviews.
This ended up in an argument (he was going to give them to his children for presents) about safety - the guy says ‘why are these more likely to explode over an AA, I’ve never had a problem’ I suggested he just used AA’s which it took as well - wasted my time and came off as an interfering idiot. The whole thing ended up with,‘well it’s being sold by Amazon, it must be safe’. Right there is the problem - he trusts Amazon, they wouldn’t sell it if it were unsafe would they? if it blew up he thinks Amazon will be being sued - when in actual fact they would pass him on to the Chinese seller -good luck with that!
People often aren’t interested in truths beforehand, they are only interested when the worse happens and it time to sue. Bit late if your child is missing half his face or hand.

I think it’s appropriately cautionary, and I’d show the fire-and-flame videos to new li-ion users before giving someone a li-ion light, cell, and charger.
Come to think of it, I’ve never given a li-ion bundle to anyone and never would, unless I trusted them to be well aware of this stuff.

The amount of energy being released is, well, cautionary.

Imagine some wacko or terrierist modifying a remote control car or drone to enable it to produce a dead short when crashed into a target.
That’s all it will take to convince the gummint to ban consumer use of anything except alkaline AA cells.

It ain’t a “nanny state” problem. It’s the problem of making high energy density products available over the counter to anyone. Like, you know, ammonium nitrate fertilizer……

Comparing li-ion cells with hand grenades is pure retorics, the determining feature that distinguishes both is explosion speed, not energy density. Even in the worst vent-with-flame case the energy of a li-ion cell is released in seconds, while high explosives release their energy in 4000m/s, so for a 5cm hand grenade charge the energy would be produced in 0.01 milliseconds, half a million times as fast. (do I do this calculation right?)

Also, even at 275Wh/kg of energy density, current top of the line lithium-ion cells are nothing compared to hand grenades.

That means a kilogram of lithium-ion cells can deliver a total of 990kJ/kg, while TNT can deliver a total of 4000kJ/kg.

And as djozz said, you are limited by the internal resistance of lithium ion cells during a complete short, and the fact that they can’t actually detonate as such.

The main purpose of the friendly and basically helpfully informative video is to let the masses know what the dangers of unprotected Li-ion cells are, and that protected cells are the safer option for those who are not experienced.

I don't think I will go to jail if my neighbors dog ambush charge attacks me, and I throw an unprotected cylindrical lithium-ion cell at it.

Perhaps we should! Every single person who drinks water eventually dies. Think of the children!

Is that why the “exploding flashlight” stories happen, because the energy released is confined in a tube until pressure builds up?
Let’s hope nobody puts a bundle of li-ions in a pressure cooker ….

Yeah, I realize there’s a chicken-little problem here.
The point of that old IEEE article was the rate of change in energy density — back then it was going up fast. Now? I dunno.

I have no idea what she is saying, but she’s hot. Good enough for a thumbs-up on the video!