I have a large pyrex baking dish that those are charged in… in the non-flamable bathroom. I’m an electrical engineer with over 40 years experience. I am more than familiar with what can go wrong…
Also those items are from well known companies with deep pockets and can have their asses sued into oblivion. Try that with a no-name Chinese company foisting counterfeit batteries and chargers…
I for one just got into the Li Ion type cells for lights this year and what an awesome difference. I bought only panasonic and sanyo batterries from vendors found through the forums and use the Xtar charger. I know an approximate time it should take to charge and do it in the kitchen. Once the light turns green out they come. Fear of things will keep you from experiencing different things in life, just have to respect these elements and not fear them.
Just curious, as anyone who’s posted on this thread ever had a serious problem with a cell? I’ve been using lithiums since 2004 and never had a single incident - and I have done hundreds of charges over the years.
I know there’s a risk (as with anything), but unless I see some real stats I suspect it is quite low.
Bottom line:
- don’t cheap out on the battery or the charger
- never leave charging (loose) batteries unattended (Li-ion or not)
- stay away from lights using two or more Li-ion batteries in series if you do not have means to check wear/capacity every so often
Most hobby type chargers have that last safeguard. That is, they’ll monitor how much mA was put in and/or the time and shutdown once that has been reached.
All my commentary was made within the context of using quality batteries and charging equipment. I don’t use anything else.
The biggest danger is to your wallet.
Still, it doesn’t hurt to be careful.
Hi guys, I would like to understand the risk profile of my setup! Can you please tell me the risk profile here:
Ideally I would have liked to stick with protected batteries only, BUT, the ultra lovely Emisar D4 3800 lumen ( TK's Emisar D4 review - #388 by TheBo - 18650 Flashlights - BudgetLightForum.com ) and the Acebeam H10 2000 lumen flashlights require 15-20A current, which is way above 3A which is the practical cap for protected batteries, from what I understand.
So, I’ll need to rely on the protection circuits in the Emisar D4, the Acebeam H10, the TOMO M2 power bank charger, and the http://www.gearbest.com/chargers/pp_187682.html / http://www.gearbest.com/diy-parts-components/pp_599014.html 18650 battery charger.
For 18650 cell, I will likely only go with the Sanyo NCR18650GA for now, as it has totally excellent test results, see Test of Sanyo NCR18650GA 3500mAh (Red) , http://www.hkequipment.net/product-p/ncrgax2.htm .
I would like to learn from you know, what is the worst thing that could possibly happen with these unprotected 18650 cells?
So, if I just let it lay in a drawer for years, could it catch fire?
What if I take it on an airplane?
Or what if I throw it in water, or lick on it, or if I damage it physically?
Or what if someone would forget the flash light turned on in a high-light or low-light mode (I think in the blinking mode at least currently, the Emisar D4’s low power protection logics are actually disabled).
Please let me know the risk for explosions, fire, or any problems, so I know what I’m really getting into!!
Thanks a lot, have a good day !
Hi Tinker. Please don’t look at me to be a role model but …… The first car to buy when you just got your drivers licence should be a bit more of a Toyota Aygo (do they sell these in the US?) and a bit less of a Dodge Challenger SRT Hellcat. The setup you mention is quite good, but is not something I would recommend to a novice.
Hi Henk4U2, the lights in themselves are quite OK, the only danger they incur would be burning your hand from the heat.
In transport and storage, I would just put a piece of paper or plastic over the electrical connectors within the lamp tube, so that the lamp not can turn on by mistake.
So I guess the only possible issue would be battery fire/blowup.
Looking around generally, it seems to me that the risks for issues are low to nonexistent.
Hi Tinker. You wanted an opinion, I gave it. Risk = Chance x Damage.
The chance something goes pearshaped is bigger when you are a novice.
The damage that follows if that happens is bigger with a bigger light, et cetera.
On the other hand, I ran through TK’s review and the light is built by Hank. He sure knows what he is doing.
Furthermore, from the perspective of chance, it is a light with 1 battery. Which is good for diminishing that chance.
A piece of plastic seems a bit overstretched. Try a hard lock-out at the tailcap, with an extra half turn, for good measure.
Hi Hank4U2, thanks.
A lamp spec:ed to not go over 55 centegrades or so should be fine. Seems if you forget it in blinking mode, the voltage could drop after some weeks, which could turn it ablaze… that’s all but shouldn’t happen.
What do you mean by “lock-out at the tailcap”? I don’t understand, can you describe in text or picture?
Sorry for the delay. My Numero-Uno had a priorty request, and she hates to wait for it.
The review of TK has a picture of the tail-pcb, with a (sturdy) spring. When you loosen the tailcap just enough that this spring no longer makes contact with the bottom of the battery (the electrical circuit is not closed any more) you have what is called a hard lock-out at the tailcap. So what I suggested was: turn the tailcap counter clockwise until the light goes out and than give it an extra half turn.
Sure that’s the quick way - to unscrew it so much that there’s no internal contact and then one more rotation for safety - but in a bag/in the wild, it could unintentionally screw back by itself so that electrical contact would be reestablished unintentionally. That’s no good. So better stick some paper or plastic on the spring on the tailcap?
Dropping in voltsge won’t make it go ablaze. I find used cells below 1 volt or completely dead. The issues come from when they drop below 2volts for a extended amount of time. Dendrites can form and puncture the foil inside. AND you decide on using the battery after a uncertain amlibt of cycles the battery may havd issues.
Just respect the batteries don’t fear them. If a light has lvp it will cut off far from a danger zone. It would take months or longer to discharge from 2.8 under load to below 2.0 volt for a good mength of time.
I’ve salvaged batteries at 1v with a slow trickle charge until 3v then turn it up. Never a issue As others have said in this thread. Quality batteries, charger and equipment. Your more likley to die in a plane or car crash then see a li ion explode
Lol. Great. What would cause the decrease from 2.8V to <2.0V, can it happen spontaneously so I should get a thick fireproof bag to store flashlights and batteries in, if not why is it not needed?
I mean do you take your phone battery out and put paper in the contacts when your not using it just sitting in your pocket? Its the same battery ones flat ones round both lithium ion. Same for your table, wireless headphones. That’s some dedication if you remove your phone battery after every use because of lithium safety. Just charge the cells use it the light will let you know the batteries are low. You will see the diminished light. And recharge. Use and recharge, use and recharge. Stay away from noname cells. And you’ll ve fine. If you have a phone you’ve been charging and discharging lithium cells for over a decade now. Has your phone or laptop ever blown up on you?
A cell won’t just go down from 2.8 to 2.0. Its a slow discharge that all batteries have it will take several months or longer to go into any real danger zone of below 2.0
I wouldn’t even have flashlights if I had to store them in a fireproof bomb bag honestly. Your flashlight is probably safer then your phone.
The battery if left along will slowly discharge itself over years down to nothing. All batteries of all chemistries will. You have to think when they made the cell it wasn’t at 4.2 volts they had to assemble it and give it a little jump charge to ,40-50% and cells will sit at 40-50% for the next decade just about
I suggest going to imr batteries and they link the spec sheet for every name brand cell. And actually reading a few of them. These cells are crushed laterally and horizontally. Nothing can happen. They are heated to nearly 500 degrees for 2 hours, they are overcharged once they are full with 12volts for hours. There are so many tests these lithium cells go through. And don’t blow up Read through a couple PDFs for your favorite name brand cells. Hg2/30q/vtc5/GA etc
The cells are a little tougher then you think. I’ve had lights hot enough to burn the bezel into the table. The batteries can tske the heat of the flashlight. Its good to have a fear I did at first. Only using aa/nihm poweref lights. Now i recycle dead vattery packs and harvest cells. But just use the light and batteries how they were intended. Seriously what’s the point in having flashlights if your terrified of it and need a bomb proof bag/techniques to transport. And disassemble/reassemble yhr lights before use.
Also look at dbsar? Videos on here. He intentionally tries to make these cells vent/rupture. He eventually had to put a direct flame on a flashlight for a period of time.
Nice resurrection of an ancient thread Pretzy ? Agenthex ? wow!!! some seriously memorable members.
IMR or LMR or INR are a different chemistry. Think of them as Drill pack batteries instead of laptop batteries .The chemistry is safer and also packs a much bigger whollop that’s needed to drive screws all day long into hardwood .
Henk4U2s advice above is solid .If you’re driving a racecar and asking if nitro-methane is dangerous or not than maybe you should have bought a mustang first .
Toykeeper describes how hot the D4 gets and immediately begins to work on a new thermal regulation for it . That ought to tell you something .
Speed4goal and Ice, thank you so much for clarifying that they’re really foolproof already. Also yes I’m going with IMR.
I guess the most recent LiIon scare was those Samsung Galaxy phones that caught fire, and then some iPhones a couple years ago. That gave me an impression that batteries catching fire is very easy to make happen.
Actually with a smartphone, if I won’t use it for long, I will remove the battery, lol. But maybe that’s just me. For these ultra-powerful flashlights, i’ll put battery during long-distance transport to protect from them turning on, as that could lead to at least burning through plastic, for a very long time.
Thanks again for clarifying that in particular IMR batteries are incredibly safe!! =-D
I’ll look for dbsar’s videos at some point, sounds fun.