680 Meter Beam Shots - Picture Heavy

LED Flashlights – General Info
71

Thanx for the tips RaceR86! :slight_smile:

So the XP-G2 would only appear to throw farther because of its smaller hot spot? If I install XP-G2s to my Shocker (after lowering the current output) then the beam will become more defined and appear to throw farther BUT the spill will become dimmer making the Shocker look like s single emitter thrower with dedomed XM-L. I don’t want my Shocker to perform that way. I’m very happy with its present beam and if ever I mod it again, I’ll be changing the LEDs to XM-L2 U2s or U3s (the present LEDs are XM-L2 T6) and not XP-G2s. :bigsmile:

72

If you swap your Shocker emitters into XP-G2 of course the sheer lumens output would be much lower.

RaceR86 is right. While this is just being my guess and taking both Vinh’s TN31 (XM-L2 dedomed) and Michael’s TN31mb (XP-G2 dedomed) as reference, Vinh’s TN31 has a little more throw than the TN31mb, and this is with XM-L2 driven at about 6.5A. TN31mb however is driven at stock current with XP-G2.

So in order to make your Shocker to have the throw as much as the XP-G2 you may probably need to drive your XM-L2 emitters at above 6.0A I guess. With 3 emitters and 3 batteries configuration, which mean each 18650 is required to give around 6.0A!

Anyway the above are not scientific assumption though. Need someone to really do the actual mod in order to prove this.

73

I cant say for sure which will have the furthest throw. Some reflectors does seem to behave a bit differently with different emitters.

Rough guesstimates, you will probably see around 3,2A to XP-G2s and 4,4A to XM-l2s in the shocker with a similar setup. Emitter Vf, and battery setup could be factors the could change the numbers.

I don't think the smaller hotspot with 3x XP-G2s will necessarily make it appear to throw further, if it does not throw further. I mainly think that spill light in general can limit some of the visual perception of throw depending on landscape and weather. When spill hits moist, fog, rain etc it will limit your ability to see far away. The same happens if lots of spill hits the ground in front of you, or a nearby tree or something. Your pupils will react to the light, and limit how good your perceive light. This effect is often larger with XM-L2s. In many circumstanses this does not affect you, and it will not affect lux readings.

I suspect that 3x XP-G2s in the BTU will look somewhat similar to 1X XM-L2 driven to its absolute max in a large single reflector. The XP-G2s should output a bit more light though, if that light is in the center of the hotspot you might get some serious lux numbers. That is, if you can get the XP-G2s far enough into the BTU reflector. The underside of that reflector is flat (based on pictures I have seen).

74

Yes, the underside of the Shocker’s reflector is flat. I think we need to put a copper strip or something between the LED and the star to raise the XP-G2 a little from its star.

I guess I’ll be sticking to XM-L2 U2s then for upgrade.

75

Can the XP-G2 handle 3.88 Amps? That’s what I’m measuring with my Shocker.

76

It can handle more, but due to having higher Vf than XM-l2 when pushed hard, it tend to end up with lower current. Like I showed in post 69.

There are a few people, me included who are playing with XP-G2 around 5A. J)

These tests made by djozz is quite useful and interesting.

https://budgetlightforum.com/t/-/19546?page=1

77

Thanx again Torger. :bigsmile:

78

Your beamshot as an Avatar looks very nice! Well done!

Also, of course, I must say you’re doing very well with your mods. Fun, is it not? :slight_smile:

79

Thanx Dale! :slight_smile:

Yes its lots of fun. I usually allot the time 12 midnight and onwards modifying or tweaking my lights. Its actually a way of relieving myself of all the stress at work. :slight_smile:

80

Tint differences could be one of the most subjective areas in flashaholic world.

I said that with de-doming CW emitter you will get warmer color than cool white and that is the fact. I don’t know which color number I got by de-doming but is this really important? It really looks much warmer than CW :slight_smile: I know that there are warmer colors than that but my vote goes to color of de-domed CoolWhite emitter.

Color given by de-doming Cool white emitter will be much nicer than stock cool white color. In reflector lights there will be no greenish tint. As you said it could be little greenish tint with aspheric but I would say it is hardly noticeable because you are not building this lights for white walling and watching tint 5 meters from the wall but for field use from 50 to 800 meters with riflescope and I guarantee that you will perceive things better with de-domed cool white than with domed cool white.

Saying that cool white is better for distant spotting things at the range? It could be true but mostly it is not true.

CW has advantages:
Cool white will be better for distant spotting of high reflective targets(especially white color targets), It will reflect better from bigger surfaces(buildings) and that is it.

And disadvantages:
But in real field use (grass, trees, game) cool white will not look as natural on them because of very high reflection from the target. Green grass or distant tree will look blueish to human eyes. Brown game will look grey. It reflects on unnatural way.

I would say that color between CW and WW works the best, de-domed CW is somewhere between them…
It does not have high reflection from the surface and it will give more accurate color rendition and we perceive things as they are. Warmer colors are more “eye friendly”.

81

No, you said and I quote you: "After de-doming cool white emitters nice warm color appears."

Do not twist your own words, or mine.

The CW emitters that most de-dome end up in the upper NW range. Upper NW range does not have anything to do with nice warm color.

That is not subjective. CW, NW, WW are defined color groups. You can easily see that in Cree`s datasheets.

No. I never asked about it either....

That is your opinium, a lot of people disagree, which can be easily seen around on the forum by the amount of people who buy CW emitters and lights.

[quote=luminarium iaculator] In reflector lights there will be no greenish tint [/quote]

Yellow-ish, sometimes with a hint of green is not uncommon to see. This have been seen, shown, and talked about numerous times by numerous people. This is typical to see and read about when people describe various CW emitters, and also emitters in the upper NW range, like the 3C.

I bet the right measurement equipment will prove you wrong too.

De-domed emitters tend to have a color tone shift towards the upper side of the planckian loctus curve. Again, this have been reported by many after de-doming CW emitters. Not once have I heard or seen anyone describe a tint below the planckian loctus curve after de-doming.

You are allowed to deny it as much as you like based on your personal experience and perception. But there is no need for you to state your opinions as facts. And especially after saying that "tint differences could be one of the most subjective areas in flashoholic world"

[quote=luminarium iaculator] And I guarantee that you will perceive things better with de-domed cool white than with domed cool white. [/quote]

You do not have to guarantee me anything on how I will perceive things. Im sure I am more familiar with my eyes than you and how they work with various tints in various environments and view distances.

When I want to spot something at 500+m range, I want a harsh high contrast color, something that is the opposite of easy on the eyes. This is something most seem to agree on, and why many want "0" tint and top bin to start with before de-doming. Since "0" tints are (currently) not available in highest bin, most just start with a "1" tint before de-doming.

Funny you say tint is subjective, yet you can guarantee how I and others will perceive things despite not knowing anything about he environment the lights are used in. :|

I think it would be wiser of you to not go further into the topic..

82

Cause I don’t like my de-domed XM-L2 T6, too nice warm color. Hey, a guarantee is a guarantee, right?

83

lol.. :)

84

RaceR86,

OK let it do your way. After de-doming cool white emitter nice upper Neutral white emitter color appears and that color is warmer than stock cool white emitter color. Lux increase will happen so you will surely see further in the night. That really is fact. Right?

Yes I can guarantee with 100% certainty that in my environment(tree, grass, small hills), and I suppose that this environment is not only in my country but in 80% countries around the world? So you will see further with de-domed cool white(upper neutral white color) than with cool white.

Rifle scopes, eyes, live targets, and my friends(older and younger guys) beside me and they all agree with me. Cool white is not good for such environment. And I am not stating that as a fact but as an experience.

And I think you should not act as lawyer on light forum and bind to each word… Especially with people who does not speak English so well. You have courtroom for that. 0:)

85

I think its better that I don't go in detail on your post. We will just leave it there, otherwise we might go back and forth for a long time.

After all, this thread is about the great beamshots Nightbirds95 shared with us. :)

86

Nightbird95, did you de-dome the BTU? I was loving the mods I made to my Solarforce M3, but when I de-domed it then it became love. :slight_smile: De-doming the XM-L2 in my HD2010 caused issues, needed to bring the emitter higher up into the big reflector, but I managed that and now it too has great throw for a small single emitter light. Albeit too warm for my liking as it started out a T6 where the M3 is an XM-L U2. I find the U2 tint to be nicer with the dome removed.

At any rate, having put the time and effort into getting a better light I think is a great part of enjoying the light. Knowing it was with personal attention that it’s better, that makes it worthwhile.

lumi, I actually tend to agree with you. I like a white or slightly warm tint for landscape and animals. The blue of a high powered U2 is just odd on the natural colors. Too much left of white still bothers me though. That might just be the photographer coming out in me. Shoot pics of a bride in her expensive wedding dress with anything other than white light and you will have a Bridezilla on your hands when it’s time to deliver pics of her dingy brown/ blue dress.

87

Yes Dale! For the Shocker, I replaced my stock XM-L U2s with dedomed XM-L2 T6 1Bs on 20mm copper stars. I did not have issues on bringing the emitter deeper into the reflector just like my T08 & K40. I’m planning to replace them again with dedomed XM-L2 U2s on Noctigons or Sinkpads. The XM-L2 U2s are brighter and presumably throw farther when dedomed, and I also like the tint of the dedomed XM-L U2 (from the Shocker) which I used to replace the dedomed XM-L T6 3C of one of my Convoy C8s. :slight_smile:

Torger & Lumi: Actually I liked reading your exchange of ideas. Being a newbie in this hobby, every new information or idea on LED tints, its effects on different environments, how it behaves when dedomed, and the preference of experienced flashaholics depending on intended use, is indispensable in planning for my next modding projects. :bigsmile:

88

For brown and green landscaped environments I’d much rather have a de-domed emitter that reflects back that landscape to my eyes closest to its natural coloring than not. In fact I’ll even go out and say that perceived throw actually increases due to better defined contrasts. Objects bathed in cool tints tend to blend too much together into blobs of bluish grays that your eyes have trouble differentiating where for instance a brown grass field ends next to a row of deep green trees.

If I’m in a concrete solid surface type environment CW is fine with me unless I need to see accurate color renditions. In that case throw off shiny surfaces like windows and such does appear magnified to the eye. Now of course I’m talking about people who for the most part have average or “normal” eyes and aren’t color blind in the usual sense. The fact is is that most of us have some form of color blindness which directly relates to detecting contrast which then directly relates to seeing objects accurately as distance increases. Talk about insurmountable subjectivity. What you see is what you see and the current official standard tint chart doesn’t really compensate for the human factor in perceiving color and contrast. And if you’re told otherwise that a scientific chart is the real gauge well then there tend to be communication problems.

Basically what I’m saying here is that led driven lights are like specialized tools for different applications. And I will also say that every individual perceives color differently from one extreme to another which in combination with contrast determines which light tool is best to use for any given environment.

So to the two posters above disagreeing what they know from charts to what the other sees with his eyes you’ll be arguing about facts and perceived facts till the cows come home. lol

But I do understand nonetheless that we should try to talk from technically accurate definitions first so that communicating begins with common agreed upon baselines. Nonetheless to some that means that anything not chart accurate CW is defacto therefore “warmer” which is accurate too in its own way from a human eye point of view and yet consequently saying it’s actually chart accurate NW instead of being “warmer” doesn’t acknowledge what the eye is actually seeing. So that’s why we get this type of disagreement between two knowledgable persons.

Either way you’d still get serious disagreements because color is infinitely variable.

89

Well siad nottawhackjob. :beer: :beer: :beer: :bigsmile: :beer: :beer: :beer: :Sp

90

[quote=nottawhackjob] So to the two posters above disagreeing what they know from charts to what the other sees with his eyes you'll be arguing about facts and perceived facts till the cows come home. lol

But I do understand nonetheless that we should try to talk from technically accurate definitions first so that communicating begins with common agreed upon baselines. Nonetheless to some that means that anything not chart accurate CW is defacto therefore "warmer" which is accurate too in its own way from a human eye point of view and yet consequently saying it's actually chart accurate NW instead of being "warmer" doesn't acknowledge what the eye is actually seeing. So that's why we get this type of disagreement between two knowledgable persons. Either way you'd still get serious disagreements because color is infinitely variable. [/quote]

nottawhackjob, well said.

Ill just add some.

I have owned more than 30 various tints. 20+ of which can accurately be placed on the tint chart. If a store have a falsely or incorrect tint description, I can in some cases notice. Because I have several tints nearby to compare with. What I know from the charts go hand in hand with real life... Most people who are experienced with the tint charts can communicate very nicely and easily.

Unless we have baseline that most people who are into tints seems to go by, you can end up with this scenario:

Person A starts with a 6500K light. Then says 5000K is warm.

Person B starts with 3000K light. Then says 4000K is cool.

Person C learns from person A, and then gets into a discussion with person B about tints... You can picture the results. Even worse, picture that they start talking about color tones. They are not really on the same page, because no one have any basic knowledge in describing what they see.

This girl might have read on a car forum that she should fill oil on her engine.

And so she did.... That is a fact.. Even removed the "engine squeal".. :D The girl and her friends can testify that there were no ill noises after filling oil on the engine. No one can deny it, it is a fact. But did she really fill oil on her engine like most people refer to it?

Being on the same page is important, so is basic knowledge around a subject before stating things about the subject as fact. When that is said, we all make mistakes from time to time. Me included..

For some time I have been thinking about writing a more detailed guide on tints and such compared to what is available here.. Ill probably get around to it some day. That way hopefully more people can be on the same page.