Given that there is a crusty layer they have to grind off, I’m not sure how well this would work with knurled surfaces. They’d almost have to re-mill it. Or just use something other than knurling to get a grip (like a Sunwayman V10). It would be great to get flashlights with that kind of surface on them. Aluminum oxide is one of the hardest minerals there is and is used on sandpaper for that reason.
I would assume that the S6 comes out of the same factory that makes the XO. At any given day or time the anodizing process could be changed in their factory either by chemical make up or time grown or the amount of current used to anodize or the number of parts being anodized at one time in the same bath (greater surface area calls for more current). The point is that even though you buy one light that has good anodizing, the next same exact light you purchase may not be of the same anodized quality because of that change in the process. It takes some coins and knowledge to make sure the process is the same almost every time (remember these are made in china as a budget light).
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You could always redo the anodize your self. It doesn’t take as much stuff as one would think to achieve type II anodizing. It is a little hazardous and needs to be done carefully. All the stuff needed can be purchased quite easily. Rit clothing dye in a water solution can be used for the coloring but the quality dye’s online will give better results especially in black. A car charger or computer power supply can be used to apply the current. Surface are determines the needed current and the time (Calculators can be found online). Battery acid can be purchased in auto parts store in 1 gallon containers or 5 gallon containers. 100 % (lye) Caustic soda can be purchased as drain cleaner in common stores. Lowes or HD will carry heavy guage aluminum wire used to make your connections to your parts. The aluminum plates may be the hardest part to obtain locally, I found mine at a metal recycling center. It can also be purchased online at a place like stockcarsteel. I use 2 plates 1/4” thick by 3” wide by 6” long. You maybe able to find something off ebay similar. With all the things in hand, now all that is needed is to read for a week or two. :bigsmile:
No.
Anodizing definitely varies, but HA-III should not do that simply from a couple months of gently rubbing against fabric and skin. It should only show bare aluminum where it has been exposed to impact or scrapes against hard materials like concrete and other metal objects. HA-III should, generally, be totally impervious to skin and fabric.
The toughest finish I’ve seen was on my ZL SC52, which took daily abuse for months (including knocking against metal objects and concrete) with absolutely no visible wear. The ZL H51w I’ve EDC’d and used heavily for a year has virtually no wear except on its clip groove, since the clip gets attached/detached a lot. My JB RRT01 has a couple marks on it from impact (concrete, metal door frame) but otherwise looks brand new despite daily carry for several months. My other L3 L10 (brown/natural, 2013 model) has been handled and carried and rubbed and bumped and dropped quite a bit over the past few months and has only a few barely-visible flecks of silver showing through its finish. Even the iTP A3 EOS I keep on my keychain has less wear than the Convoy S6 you showed, and it spends all day rubbing against keys and a diamond file. And the SK-68 clone I carried for months only has a little wear on the bezel and under the clip (it was clipped onto a metal ring, which scratched the anodizing totally off there). Both of my Convoy S3 lights have perfect finish aside from a little scratch where my aftermarket clip (and metal ring I clip it to) touches.
So, what you showed looks like the worst (or second-worst) anodizing job I’ve ever seen, even compared to cheaper lights used in more abrasive conditions. (my green 2012 L3-L10 is probably the worst I’ve seen, and I think it faded due to brief exposure to very diluted shampoo)
Note, however, that the dye goes on top of the anodizing, and dye can come off without damaging the anodized layer if the finish wasn’t properly sealed.
Maybe it’s the dye then? It doesn’t feel any different.
Note, however, that this statement is 50% false.
False part: The dye fills the pours of the anodize growth and is then sealed inside of it. It absolutely does not go on top of the anodizing.
True part: If the anodize is not sealed properly, the dye can come back up out of the honeycomb tubes of the growth.
Even without sealing, it takes more than a few rides in a suit-coat pocket to drag the dye out of its happy home in the oxide lattice...
As for that flashlight, that's shameful. Type I doesn't dye well at ALL to black, so my guess is that you've got a good example of really crappy Type II, Class 2 Anodize. When it comes to colored anodize, it's unlikely that most people have ever seen or touched Type I, Class 2. 99% of anodized consumer goods are Type II, Class 2 or Type III, Class 2. The Vast majority being Type II, a few claiming Type III and even fewer actually being Type III.
It's even covered in MIL-A-8625... 6.12 Dyeing or coloring Type I, IB, IC, and IIB coatings. Type I, IB, and IC coatings have a different pore structure and along with Type IIB coatings are thinner than Type II coatings which makes them more difficult to dye. As a result, Type I, IB, IC, and IIB black anodized may not be readily obtainable.
PPtk
So, with all this said, does anyone know if Solarforce’s claims to Type III on the L2P and S2200 is actually Type III Hard Anodize?
Since the majority of these XO and S6 clone flashlights have no problems with anodizing like this. Now that I think about it a little more, Its a good possibility that this particular flashlight did not have a good connection when the current was applied during the anodizing process. If there’s a bad connection there will be very little anodizing growth and sometimes none at all. Its pretty easy to tell when it comes out of the bath. The aluminum has a slight yellow tint to it if anodized. Someone in the QC department may have let this one slip by. There’s really no telling how many of these things they anodize at one time. I can see them doing a hundred or more at a time, how easy it would be to miss. Just my second guess I guess. :bigsmile:
Thanks for the replies guys. Very informative PilotPtk
It would be hard tell unless someone has something like this laying around.
http://www.drillspot.com/products/1448118/DeFelsko_NAS1_PosiTector_6000_Basic_Non-Ferrous_Coating_Thickness_Gage
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You have to remember that some of these type III claims are from the same people that claim 2000 lumens
from a single XM-l flashlight. Not saying that the two your asking about above are not indeed type III. Just that the type III anodizing cost considerable more to produce and where dealing with budget minded suppliers.
Easiest way to tell if your light has type 2 or HAII anodizing?
Stick it in your pocket with your keys and some change. Keep it there a few weeks.
If it looks barely scratched: probably HAIII
If it looks like it has been through a war: probably HAII
Thanks for correcting that. I had the right image in my head and described it poorly. I should have said the dye goes on after the anodizing, not on top of it. It isn’t physically on top due to the porous structure it sinks into… and if the pores aren’t sealed, the dye can come out again.
A D size Maglite is type II, so if you are willing to do a scratch test with your light and a Maglite to see which is harder that might give you a indication if it is type III. Maglite seems to have a very good type II anodizing probably approaching the top of the scale. I don’t know this for sure but from my machining experience with them, the anodizing is pretty hard. Type III would be even harder.
Looking at the pdf PilotPTK posted, only type III is “hard anodize”. Thus there is no HAII. Okay. So is “HAIII” marketing speak? Like “IPX-8” (meant to be IPX8 = Ingress Protection, solid particle rating, liquid ingress rating)? >.<
Yep no HAII.
They don’t want to say Anodized II or type II (AII?)
I’m pretty sure that one unavoidable characteristic of the Type III process is the aluminum turning a darker gray. A light silvery color would indicate standard anodizing and an ugly dark grayish tint, probably HA. Clear Type II will be silver but Type III will be gray.
My experience with anodizing dates back a few decades so maybe (but doubtful) newer processes avoid the discoloring but in the past, gray was a standard for HA.
From what I know that was the case for mil spec type III (Ha) anodizing. I always heard you had a choice of two colors gray or black. I have seen different colors on what was claimed type III anodizing. Whether it was mil spec type III (Ha) anodizing I have no idea. I have seen some comments that say that type III can be colored but the colors have to be darker colors and they do not turn out as vibrant as type II anodizing. When you do a google search for images of “mil spec type III anodizing hard coat” about the only colors you will find are gray and black.
It was my understanding that it had to with the actual dye size molecule in microns being able to enter the cone formation opening. Mil spec type III (Ha) is so densely grown the openings are very small.
Feel free to correct me if I’am wrong here. PilotPTK! 
This is from arrowcryogenics.com:
How Does Hard Coat Anodizing Affect the Appearance of Aluminum?
If the aluminum to be hard coat anodized is not dyed (Class I), the color of the aluminum will change. The color of the aluminum after being hard coat anodized depends on the alloy and the thickness of the coating. On some alloys, the color of the aluminum after hardcoat anodizing will be gray/bronze; on other it will be gray-black. If the aluminum is dyed (Class II), black is the most commonly used color. Other colors may be available depending on the alloy and the coating thickness. Sampling is required if a color other than black is needed.
Google “anodized” and click “Images”. Very colorful.
Google “hard anodized” and the colors dissappear.
So a few more questions.
1. Type III is not the same as HA-III?
2. There is no such thing as HA-II (it’s really just type II)?
3. Is Type III or HA-III available in black? Or just an ugly dark charcoal gray.
I’m curious because I have a few lights claiming to be HA-III.
- Type III is considered a hard coating (HA).
- As far as I know (HA) is considered type III only.
- The natural color of say 6061 aluminum type III class I (non colored) anodizing is dark gray (when it comes out of the bath) This does vary depending on the alloy and process used. Type III can be colored with darker colors, black being the most common. The alloy make up has a direct effect on what color comes out of the bath (Natural color class I).
Mil spec is just a standard in which the anodizing must meet in order to comply with military standards. There are several different standards in which type III is called out differently. So if some one says anodized to type III, that’s a pretty broad standard with a lot of variances. If they say anodized to meet MIL-A-8625 type III Class I anodizing with no less than 2 mil then that’s pretty specific. Class I being no color (natural) class II being color. With a flashlight that doesn’t list what the specifications are as long as the coating is to a certain thickness they could call it type III (HA) ,depends on the standard used.
That’s just my take as far as what I gather.
Of these three lights, the silver one sands without to much difficulty using aluminum oxide sandpaper. (A continuity test shows it is anodized.) The darkest one really resists sanding and the medium gray one seems slightly less difficult but harder than the silver. Colored dye might not be too bad on the middle one but on the really hard dark metal, only black would work well.
I’m sure the XinTD is HA and doubt any black dye was used. It’s the same shade as other good HA I’ve seen. Bright coloring just can’t exist with a good HA.
