@Mandrake50 @jeff51 REW sounds like a good idea. I really want movies to sound the way they were designed, not just the way they happen to sound after I randomly tweak 30 different settings to to make the sound not-weird
There are lots of things you can do to optomize things, but in the end it comes down to what you CAN do to make it Sound GOOD TO YOU !
Do keep in mind that it takes a good while to become accustomed to the new sound. I generally listen for a week or more after changes to decide if what I did makes things “better”. You have been listening for a long time with ho real bass (and no access to that LFE channel either). Of course things are going to be way different with the sub. Give it listening time… A bunch! There is lots there that you have been missing, but that doe not make it weird… just different.
Once it is all optimized, it still might sound “weird” for a while. But it is as good as you can get it in your system…
Also, the thing about movies is that it is hard to know “how they were designed”. Unless you listen in the monitor room where they were mixed. Music is different, at least you can have a frame of reference for judging. But chances are that if you have music sounding good, movies are also fine… just different than what you are used to.
Oh for sure, I’m not using to hearing much below 45hz so things are going to sound different. But that’s precisely why it is hard for me to tell if things sound right or not. I don’t know if time is going to help with that because I have no frame of reference for a full-range system. Maybe it’s a personality trait thing but I’m not happy with it just sounding good to me–I want it to be objectively correct too. Sounds like REW can help with that when I’m ready though.
1 Thank
Do what you can objectively… but there comes a time to just listen and enjoy.
I know there are things I can do to make my system better objectively… But I ask myself… at what cost.
Then I just go back to listening and enjoying what I have. It makes life so much easier… and less stressful.
1 Thank
Subwoofers are omni directional so as long as its in a corner (about 1 foot from each wall) you won’t know where its coming from. Sealed boxes give you more punch and ported more “boomy” I own 2 Definitive Technology 12’s it is a high ish end budget company but they make great subs if space is a problem they make an 8" sub with a 1500 watt class D amp, its in their super cube line, it has 1 driver and two passive subs in a tiny sealed box. It punches way above its weight. Adding a subwoofer brings a whole new depth to your surround system. I used install million dollar systems so if you have any other questions just reach out good luck hope this advice helps…
Cheers
1 Thank
Here are some measurements so you guys have an idea of what I’m working with:
TV Width: 48" (interacts with speakers and sub due to being placed low for optimum viewing angles, eyes are about center-screen)
Speaker Stand Bases Width: 8" (2)
Subwoofer width: 18" (1)
To put the Front and Surrounds in the configuration with maximum separation for my room, I’m left with squeezing all of this into about 102" space horizontally. Problem is, I need to sandwich the Sub between the Right Front and TV to get it in a corner. The top of the Sub is about 3" higher than the base of the Front Right when on it’s stand.
Couple of thoughts:
-
The Fronts have front-firing ports on the lower 3" so no driver is directly blocked, but the Mid drivers would be barely higher than the top of the sub. Not as bad as it sounds initially but still not great, right?
-
I could potentially raise the Fronts a few inches but their current height puts the tweeter very close to ear level when seated.
-
Maybe I could put the Sub on it’s side…not sure I like the idea though, seems like the ports are near the floor on purpose and I’d hate to mar the side of the unit.
BTW any suggestions for placing a center SX-60 without putting holes in a rental wall? Thinking I might ditch my TV stand in favor of some cinder blocks and boards so I can place the speaker under there…
Wall space is a real issue due to room layout. Refer to post 56 in this thread where I posted a room diagram if you want. The corner near the dining table is now home to a shelf which holds a surround speaker and there’s a matching shelf and speaker near the opposite side of that same wall. The table has had a leaf removed and is nestled between the two shelves.
The object in front of the chair represents the TV of course and there are speakers on stands to either side of it. The object in the corner horizontally across from my recliner is a desk and there isn’t really a better place to put that. (What appears to be a dead end in the upper right is actually an alcove with doors on each wall to rooms that can’t accept the desk.)
Currently the sub is probably going between the Right Front and the TV stand. The details are not final yet…I’ve moved some furniture around as proof of concept and my whole room is in limbo haha
Try it on its side. Might work just fine. And you would have more options for placement to deal with the room modes.
If you don’t like it - Nothing lost except time.
Here is a trick I used before REW came along.
I made a “graph” on paper with the lower axis running from 20 to 150 Hz.
Then I would play a sweep - like the one in the video.
Then I would make a (-) mark where the volume dropped out - a room null.
And a (+) mark where the volume got really loud. A room gain.
This, BTY, is why so many systems seem to have one or two note bass.
Did this in a few SW positions to find the most even response.
Later used a sound level meter. Cheap ones are notoriously inaccurate in the lower freqs.
The AVR can help with big bumps. Nothing will help fill in the room nulls other than moving the speaker.
With REW and a calibrated mic - you can waste hours/days playing with this stuff.
Don’t let “it must be perfect” get in the way of “sounds real goog to me” 
PS. you can always unplug the main speakers so you are only sweeping the SW while looking for the sweet spot.
All the Best,
Jeff
1 Thank
Also, remember the sweep will sound quieter at lower freqs due to hearing sensitivity decreasing with lower Hz.
So 30Hz will sound quieter, to the ear, than 60Hz when played at equal signal levels.
But will measure the same with a calibrated mic.
This is the Fletcher/Munson effect.
Don’t let this fake you out when trying to get a smooth response.
1 Thank
A couple of things. First, though you do get boundary reinforcement for the sub in a corner, it is frequency dependent. SO it is not always the best place for it.
What ifs:
What if you used the wall right of your chair. Though that would cause some challenges for the right rear speaker.
What if you replaced the table to the right of your chair with the sub. Many people really like the sub being near field. Especially for the tactile impact.
I know that you like the height of your screen. But an option would be to get a stand that would raise the screen up from the existing table/stand enough to put the center channel under it. I did this in my bedroom. It raised the TV about 9 inches for my center, it is not too bad. I don’t get a stiff neck when watching. Though admittedly, if you have an LCD display, directly on axis is better. But enough better that I would have to drill holes to mount the center speaker… nope.
Sometimes you have to make compromises… or maybe better… you always have to make compromises.
1 Thank
Trying out a few more base test YT sites and this one, on my system, is interesting Test Basu Subwoofera i Kolumn - Częstotliwość - 5 do 125 Hz / Bass Test - Frequency Sweep Audio - YouTube .
I hear nothing at 5Hz but at 10Hz, my ears are definitely sensing a pressure wave. At 15Hz there’s a null, I guess, but from 20Hz, on up, it’s a normal progression. I like how this site holds the frequency for a few seconds.
1 Thank
I spent like 4 hrs one night this weekend moving everything around and now I have something close to what could be a permanent arrangement.
-
Fronts and Surrounds: In their final positions, I could mess with elevation or possibly turn the rears upside down to lower the height of tweeters. So far so good though.
-
Center: I think I can remove the top shelf of my media center stand to make room for it. Would have to relocate some components, but much cheaper than buying a whole new stand or building one custom for what I want. Was considering a KEF center due to Erin’s Audio Corner measurements, but I can’t seem to find one for very cheap used so I’ll probably just get more SX-60 refurbs and keep my tonal match.
-
Sub: On its side now between the TV stand the the Right Front. I placed it on it’s left side so the driver is further from the wall.
Due to a busy weekend I haven’t tested this very thoroughly but I tried the first chase sequence from Mad Max Fury Road and it was pretty epic! Those DRUMS. And the extra distance between lefts and rights is improving sound localization. I do wonder how much better it might be if the left and right surrounds were more to the left and right and not so far back. Definitely going to be considering going to 7.1 after I’ve settled things with the Center and Sub.
Although it destroys the natural soundstage, it’s neat to be able to pump music to the fronts and rears for a room enveloping sound.
The sub is definitely having a good effect. I pushed the wrong button on my remote and accidentally switched to a 2.0 speaker preset and it sounded so much worse I thought something in the AVR died 
1 Thank
I’ve had that experience… recently!
My older 7.1 Pioneer AVR (second living room) somehow has an intermittent short on the right front. After listening to a few hours of content last week with no issue, I reran the room analysis this weekend and that short reared its head. At first, I wiggled the wire on both ends, unplugged the banana plugs, checked the BP wire crimping and finally recovered the connection, for now. The great thing about a 7.1 receiver only being used as a 5.1 is that I can reconfigure output to ‘bi-amp’ and use the output terminals of the SBR & SBL for the front.
That’s a pretty solid workaround 
I’m glad you’re back up and running.
Ever thought about making one living room a dedicated theater? When I get a house some day I’m going to be scouting for long rectangular rooms in the basement!
The main living room in this house has the best dimensions for my main HT.
Oh, Yes! A basement theater would be a dream. I went to a club in downtown Austin (1990s) that had a dance floor in the basement where, when I held my feet a few inches above the floor, it felt as if they were over an air hockey table!
Yep, better for cool summer listening and easier to keep all the components temps down.
It is hot! and the cool climate is another benefit of having a basement. I didn’t write what I was talking about. The bass was so intense on the basement dance floor, I wonder if a null could’ve been found there! I think I was wearing a pair of white K-Swiss so a ‘levitating’, black light illuminated experience!
1 Thank
Yeah, but that puts the ports closer to the wall, yes? You get lots of LF content from the ports… depending on tuning and the frequency, maybe more than the cone.
But the difference of a foot or so will likely not make much differences one way or the other. The only ways to know if one orientation is better than the other is listening and measurements.
This is true, but before they were next to the floor which it would have reflected off of. Now they are about 7-8 inches from the wall since I toed the sub out a bit. Not sure but I thought maybe it would even out. At any rate, I hope it works out there because I prefer that the side with the feet be facing the wall.
Well, If you get it tweaked out the way you want it, and like the sound, all is good. But the design is done for the ports to use the floor. Probably not anything to worry about. But is you have issues getting everything right once (if) you get into serious tweaking (measurement), something to think about. Room boundary distances (and relative orientation) become important when dealing with a few DB differences. But as I mentioned, setting up a system is all about compromise. Do what you can to fit things, then optimize from there. I have listened to systems where people broke all kinds of “rules” but still have something that “sounds” great.
Anyway, I am glad that you are liking what you have so far.