Are all MT-G2 lights going to be somewhat floody?

LED Flashlights – General Info
59

But….

I seem to be obsessed with finding out not so much the question I posed in the OP, but the opposite, i.e., can a light with an MT-G2 be really throwy.

But….

I am also impatient (not nuts, but may impatient) to try to find out the answer to that question.

But….

None of the new MT-G2 lights, except maybe the ones we haven’t seen, like the Niwalker, seem to be purposefully designed to be throwy.

So, combine all of the above, and it doesn’t look like I’d be able to get an answer to my question if I just sit around waiting…

And, I think that I am still new enough at all of this that if I do something really stupid, I can claim that “I didn’t know that”…. “Ignorance is Bliss”, as the saying goes….

So, I did this kind of weird “lego-ing” experiment tonight.

Components:

- Pill: CPF MT-G2 (from this thread)

- Head/Reflector/neck: DST (see garry bunk’s giant DST thread)

- Body: Clone A8 (see garrybunk’s giant DST thread)

  • 2 x Efest 18500 batteries (fully charged, ~4.20V)

I put all of those pieces together to make a “new” kind of Frankenstein-ish combination of a shorty DST and an MT-G2 light.

The pill from the MT-G2 light was slightly smaller diameter than the DST pill. I was originally guessing that the pills were the same size, but they weren’t, so to get the pill from the MT-G2 light into the DST head/reflector, and to provide contact from the emitter to the body, I wrapped it in aluminum foil, and shoved it (really hard) into the neck of the DST, then carefully screwed the DST head down, watching the MT-G2 emitter as I did that, to make sure that it stayed centered.

It took quite a few tries, but eventually, I got the head screwed down, and the emitter somewhat close to centered (see pic below).

I then screwed the clone A8 tube onto the DST neck, dropped a pair of 18500 batteries into the tube, then screwed on the clone A8’s tailcap.

I tested the “new” light with a pair of Trustfire “flames” 18500s first, just to make sure it worked.

It did, so I was ready to test, so I put in the 2 Efest 18500s.

Test setup is the same as last night, 14 feet from light to lux meter sensor. Meter was set to “Max” mode.

Test results was 2070 lux :(…

Overall, I’m somewhat happy that I was able to get it working…. but somewhat disappointed in the results.

I’m also trying to tell myself that “this was just a test”, and to not generalize the results to the answer of my question, but, between the testing last night, and this light, and the results tonight, I’m starting to wonder if I already know the answer to my question :(…

Some pics:

The “Franken-dst-mt-g2” light:

The MT-G2 emitter in the DST head and reflector:

Edit: I forgot to mention: I did tailcap current measurement with the Efest 18500s in the light, and that was ~3 amps.

60

That pic may be deceptive, but it looks to be completely wrong to get the correct focus with the MTG2, LED needs to be higher in the reflector. It's not the LED's fault or a inherent characteristic, it's that very few reflectors work well with it (so far).

I cannot for the life of me get anything usable out of any style p60 reflector + MTG2. I have cut up about 10 reflectors in the last few days, all possible combinations of emitter hole size and spacing off the LED package, none of them work, they all give no recognizable hotspot AT ALL. But the same LED works in the S1100 (you have seen the tight spot that one has). So don't blame the LED, blame the reflector.

61

Sounds interesting. I think you’re the first person to report trying that emitter in the DST reflector/head. Did you get a chance to see how it worked outside?

Is it an optical illusion or is the emitter’s silicone bubble not fitting through the hole in the reflector?

62

I know what you mean about the height of the emitter. I tried, believe me, but I mentioned about how many times I had to try to screw the head down. The problem was as I screwed it down, the emitter would move off-center when I got to a certain point, and I was really afraid of physically damaging the emitter, since it’s the only one I have for now.

I kept trying to start the emitter offset, and what I showed was the best I could do for the time being. I think that if it wasn’t for that off-centering problem, the emitter could be higher up in the reflector.

I guess that I’m still at the point of not having any proof that an MT-G2 light can be a “real” thrower… proof in the form of lux readings that can be correlated to other readings, like from selfbuilt.

Since you have an S1100 with an MT-G2, have you taken lux readings, at 4.3 meters? If so, what were they?

Thanks,
Jim

63

As I mentioned in the reply I just made, it’s tough to get the DST head/reflector screwed down all the way, without the emitter starting to move to one side or other. I’ve seen posts about people damaging emitters by accident, like brushing a tool against the dome, and I was really trying to avoid that.

So to kind of answer your question… it’s hard to see exactly how high the emitter is protruding into the reflector. As best as I can tell, it IS protruding into the reflector, but I don’t think it’s as high as it could go as when the head/reflector is screwed all the way.

I have an MT-G2 on Noctigon coming in from IOS, and I think it could be able to replace whatever emitter is original on the DST, and the reflector hole is large enough I think, but I’m not sure what the driver in the DST is? Is it direct-drive from the factory? If so, I might try just swapping the emitter and see what happens. I have some power resistors that I got in, to try to use as current limiters for that, but they’re kind of HUGE, so I’m not sure if I’ll be able to get them inline.

Edit: No, I haven’t tried it outside yet… it’s kind of late here, like almost 03:00 :)…

64

I do not have a meter.

Take a look at the pics here and here, willing to bet those shots look nothing like what you've seen with yours, due to reflectors that aren't happy with that LED. And it looks like the S1100 smooth reflector gives a narrower beam than the stock S2200.

I think you asked the wrong question in the thread title. If you'd asked, 'do most reflectors work poorly with the MTG2?' my reply would have been 'yep, pretty much. you might happen to get lucky though.'

65

I was taught, and think, that, similar to how “There is no stupid question, only stupid answers”, that “There is no wrong questions, only wrong answers” :)…

66

Correction to post #58: The batteries were 18350s, not 18500s.

Jim

67

No, it is absolutely possible to ask the wrong question, when the correct answer to the wrong question doesn't apply to the actual problem you're trying to solve. You end up fixing the wrong problem, and don't know why it didn't work.

68

Most reflectors of that design are about the same thickness around the emitter hole, around .040-.050" thick. What I found is that the base of the reflector needs to sit almost directly on the square base of the LED, with just enough spacer to prevent actual contact (the silicone on the corners is thin and easily damaged, don't let it make actual contact, the spacer needs to sit around the LED itself and sit on the MCPCB). Then the thickness of the reflector is what determines how far the LED protrudes.

This is really hard to get an accurate picture of. It makes sense to me, because I have seen it up close and personal, it may not translate well in pic form.

The bottom of the reflector has a slight bevel around the emitter hole, to help align onto the raised ring of the insulator. If the insulator were any thinner, the reflector would touch at the corners of the LED base. That's the positioning that gives the tight spot shown in my other pics. As little as .015-.020" either way makes it ugly, either blotchy & lumpy or with a yellow spot in the middle. It is extremely picky.

It is just not possible to get some reflectors to work well with this LED. It's not the LED's fault.

69

Hi,

Re. outside: I just took my HD2010 and the DST+MT-G2 light outside for a quick comparison.

This is probably not going to be really helpful towards your question, but I can’t tell, with certainty, if it’s much brighter than the HD2010, at distance.

When I tried with the original MT-G2 light I got off of CPF, the original MT-G2 light was definitely less bright, at distance, than the HD2010.

Tonight, maybe the DST+MT-G2 light is slightly brighter than the HD2010 at distance… it’s hard to tell. But, the DST+MT-G2 light lights up a huge area compared to the HD2010. Also, with the original MT-G2 light, there was only a kind of faint hotspot, and tonight, with the DST+MT-G2, there’s a very definitive hotspot.

Jim

70

More light on the stuff between you and the target will make the light reaching the target seem less bright. Does that make sense? (and do you see how that could be (mis)interpreted as 'this isn't a thrower'?) 0:)

71

I have a half finished MTG in the C3 reflector. The led must be mounted as low as possible to get the best beam pattern. I have the base off the reflector sitting on the star and believe that if it could go lower the beam pattern may even be better. There is no risk off shorting the power wire on the led as the plastic reflector is non conductive. This reflector with the same driver as the XM-L light I have built will not compete with the XM-L for throw. When I’m finished the MTG light I will be able to do a direct comparison with an XM-L and MTG with identical reflectors and drivers. Hopefully this will be in about three weeks.

72

And I've made some progress on making it work in a p60 reflector. One to never give up, I thought about that ring around the XR-Es and built something similar. It helps, a lot. Still needs to be a bit taller I think, but they are fairly easy to make, just a short piece of copper tubing, and a small .022" wire soldered around the base. It's a press fit into the reflector.

I still plan to find some SSC P7 reflectors, I think they have a 9mm hole? Those should fit with no hacking, hopefully the beam will be better.

73

re reflectors, cutter do an mt-g2 reflector that I want to try out.

Here’s a picture of the one match recieved, note the shape of the reflector base.

here’s cutters reflectors hopefully

http://www.cutter.com.au/products.php?cat=MTG+Single+Optics

the 32.5 and 35 mm reflectors offer some possibilities, the 80mm one, I want to mount in a head fastened to a 3d mag tube, at 12º angle, it should be a thrower.

74

Be aware that (I'm pretty sure) LEDiL has tweaked all their MTG reflectors and now have listings for MTG and MTG2 parts, so they do not seem to be compatible, or at least incompatible enough that they went to the trouble of making changes.

75

I think you’re on to something trying that emitter in the DST. The DST has a somewhat narrow hotspot. That seems to be a requirement if one wants throw with mgt2. Since you’re going to get one on copper, you can drive the emitter harder. That Manafont “3T6” driver should give you around 4 amps unmodded. It has 5 modes with blinkies, but it does have good memory. You can adjust current by adding/subtracting to the 3 sense resistor banks that are behind the toroidal inductor.

http://www.manafont.com/product_info.php/flashlight-component-triple-t6-cree-circuit-board-driver-p-7973?rp=522815

EDIT: I have used the above driver in two versions of my MGT2 light. It works quite well. You may want to used your stock DST tube so that you can use to 18650’s in series. At 4 amps, you will be consuming about 28 watts or so just at the emitter. Additional wattage will be consumed by the driver.

EDIT2: Please disregard this driver recommendation. The driver is too big in diameter to drop into the DST.

76

Hi,

Do you know (for sure) if that MF driver will fit into the DST’s pill?

77

Hi,

After a couple of hours sleep, and Sunday duties, I was looking at the DST. I wanted to get the emitter deeper into the reflector, but as I said earlier, when I was screwing the head in, the emitter would change position relative to center.

I realized that there was another possible “helper” that I could use: I was using a battery tube convertor to allow using 18650/18500/16340 batteries in the A8 clone tube, and I found that if I removed the tube/body, I could see the spring-end of the pill, and then, I could use that battery convertor to kind of “pry” the pill bottom one way or the other.

So, I started screwing the head in further, watching the emitter position, and if it started straying off-center, I’d use the battery convertor to adjust the emitter position back to center.

I think that I’ve now been able to screw the head as far as it’ll go. It’s still kind of hard to see how far the emitter is into the reflector, and I think it’s still not into the reflector as far as it should be (“should” == “ideally”, for performance), but here’s a pic anyway:

and, here’s a white wall shot, about a meter:

Jim

P.S. I think the reason the emitter moves when screwing the head is that there’s a black insulation disk on top of the emitter, and, as the head screws in, it’s touching that disk unevenly.

Edit: Re-linked pics - not sure why, but weren’t working earlier.

78

Good question. No it won’t, not without some surgery. Glad you asked. Please disregard my driver recommendation above.