It seems that AA powered lights are getting closer to the Li-ion powered lights in terms of output. Personally, I like the peace of mind in using Eneloops. I know their origin, unlike the 18650’s I use. I think this guy sums it up……
For me, Eneloops or L91 Energizer Lithiums are the way to go. I have had enough of pampering my LiIon cells and can live with the brightness now offered by AA lights. They are brighter than lithium-powered lights were a couple of years back. The trade-off of less light and juggling more cells is worth the lessened hassle and concerns with LiIon.
If you get the power you need with AA’s then that’s all you need. 1.5V will never give the same power as 4V li-ion, however, and I like lots of spare lumnes.
As long as BTU Shockers and their ilk are being sold like hot cakes like they are around here, I’m sticking with 18650s! But I do understand the mindset you speak of. KInda feels nice to look ahead to less maintainence with your tools.
I think multiple AA lights (3 or more cells), can equal Li-ion. Look at the new Nitecore lights with 4AA and 8AA. They are powerhouses and I think we will see more. I hope so anyway.
Eneloops can take a lot of abuse in high draw situations. I also see a lot of single AA lights, but they do not seem to be as bright as a single 14500. I think that's because the juice needed for the driver, to convert from 1.2v to 3.6v drains the AA battery quite quickly and can't very be efficient.
I got in some of those 700 mA AA boost converters from Illumination Supply and tossed one into the Sphere ’o Many Mysteries. Driving a no-name Chinese LED with 1.2V in to the driver it was around 60% efficient and sucking over 2 amps from the power supply. A AA cell can’t do that for long.
A Nanjg 105C driver running off of 4.0V and pumping 850 mA into the same LED was over 99% efficient (the high Vf of the LED was not letting the 3.04 amp driver supply more current)
I am relatively new to Li-Ion cells and still very fond of my Eneloops.
The OP is correct about the introduction of some great AA lights but no matter how you look at it there will always be more energy stored per gram (or ounce) in a Lithium cell.
High powered lights such as the Nitecore EA4 are truly venturing into new territory whilst still being suitable for everyday use by the great unwashed. I love mine! But the fact remains that similar performance can be had from a single 18650 in a more compact form factor.
I think if weight and size (for a given output) is a factor for you, Li-Ion will win every time. For this reason, I don't think we'll see the demise of Li cells in favour of NiMH.
However, AA remains easy to get, safe to use/abuse, can be left in a hot vehicle, cheap to replace and can be recharged by anyone.
They will both continue to have a place in my collection.
I like my P60 hosts for their flexibility, which is hard or impossible to attain in that size without lithium ion cells.
If I were to survive the end of the world, I think I’d rotate between a few sets of Eneloops in a multi-cell light (though I’d be mindful of reverse charging) but relegate LiCo cells to light duty usage only.
I’ll take lithium ion 18650 top of the line Panasonic batteries over Eneloop AA’s anyday of the week. Eneloops make a very good battery, but you’ll get way more juice and runtime from lithium ions.
I’m ok with both cells. Each got their fun characteristics and management. Sometimes. AA have potential of being powerful when bundled together and electronics playing a part. Sometimes I awe at the amazing energy 18650 26650 have.
Li-ions are better in performance and weight,
one problem is you can not get the original capacity from a 5 year old li-ion even you have not used it that much.
I have NiCd batteries more than 10 years old, and still keeps useful capacity.
If you pay money for long term use, NiMh is better.
Toyota Prius hybrid car uses NiMh and they do not need to be replaced for the lifetime of the car.
If NICD or NIMH batteries were so much better than lithium ion then explain why all the power tools went to lithium ions. I have 2 of the 18volt Black&Decker cordless drills. The batteries after 2yrs wouldn’t keep or hold a charge long. They sucked. But I had a Makita 9.6volt NICD drill with 2 packs that I still have that is going on 18 yrs old that still work. But for the most part lithium ions are the way to go. They have no memory unlike NINH or NICD batteries. So you can charge them at anytime and not have to worry about ill effects to the battery of not holding capacity of charge. They hold their charge longer over time as well.
......If NICD or NIMH batteries were so much better than lithium ion then explain why all the power tools went to lithium ions.......
Probably because the vast majority of knuckleheads out there never fully ran down the NiCad/NiMH packs on a regular basis. I know people who liked to keep the battery or power tool on the charger so it was always ready. If you are only drilling a couple of holes now and again, your basic NiCad or NiMH battery may well lose some apparent capacity when used this way.
NiCads actually stand up better than NiMH in power tools due to their superior perfomance under heavy loads and better tolerance to fast charging.
I suspect the Li-Ion cells are used to keep the weight down and because they are better suited to the usage profiles many people give them. ie, drill a few holes then put them back on the charger. Unfortunately, constantly keeping Li-Ion cell at full voltage (especially if combined with high temperature) will short-term their life. As will running them dead flat and storing them that way for any length of time.
Again, good power to weight ratio, but little tolerance for abuse.
I have worked construction for the last 3 years. I can't even imagine the number of holes I have drilled and screws I have put in.
I used to use all Dewalt tools and 18v NiCad batteries. They worked ok for about the first 20 charge cycles. After that I noticed a large decrease in power and run time. Most of them don't hold a charge for more than 50 screws anymore.
During the time when my Dewalt was either out of batteries or I got sick of it; I used a Milwaukee 18v Li-Ion drill. (Keep in mind this is when I was really into RC cars and lithium batteries.) I knew they would work great for a cordless drill because the discharge curve is perfectly suited for what we do. I instantly fell in love and I sold all of my Dewalt NiCad batteries and bought Li-Ion packs. During this time I was thinking that brushless motors would be great. TADA now they have brushless motors in some of the cordless drills. It's a beautiful sight to see them finally advancing their products.
The reason Li-Ion is so great for cordless drills, that get used often, is the discharge curve and rapid charging capabilities. With a NiCad pack it would slowly get weaker until it couldn't spin even an average 2" drywall screw. So being the battery freak that I was I put the depleted battery onto a spare drill and ran the drill until the battery was fairly depleted, which takes for ever.
Li-Ion is able to screw large lag bolts and 1" holes throughout the entire discharge cycle until it hits the LVC. Then I put the battery on the charger and within 20 minutes it's done. (I let is sit for awhile but it's still much faster than NiCad.)
Too make a long story short: I love lithium batteries but Alkaline and NiMh have their places too. I can't imagine only having one type of battery because they all offer different benefits.
AAs are nice. But only usable for lights will “less” lumens if you dont use a good bunch of batteries.
You also need to stay with nimh. And they are not that cheap if you buy some good ones (like Eneloop XX). So price is no advantage either…
You need about 4 eneloops XX to match the power of one 18650. So you either need a larger, fat or quite long flashlight to match a nice and compact 18650 lights.
The main issue with multiple (3 or more) AA lights is the limited amount of lights to choose from.
Usually you have to buy something that is a bit large,expensive, and heavy compared to its output.
EA4 is a nice light. But its not slim, nor budget, nor super bright. And once turbo dims down its only 550 lumens.
If I “only” got 550 lumens out of an XM-L on high in a 18650 light I would change the driver…
I like AA lights, but I really prefer li-ion since it has so many advantages.
So I will say we are not moving away from li-ions.
There are many in the aviation world who are cursing the lithium-ion battery right about now…aka Boeing, FAA and the Dreamliner, not to mention Nippon Air and others whose job depends on the technology being right. And safe.
Two concepts we are still debating right here on BLF.
My money is on the 18650. Long term who knows? Look how fast LED development and application has come in the last 5 years.
