aspire 18350 discontinued..?

[Tom_Tom]

@DavidEF

I used Excel (maybe there’s my error!) and just calculated the diameter minus 4mm and the length minus 4mm, just like ToyKeeper said. Hmm… :question:

I think what is missing is the allowance for the parts at the positive end, that eat into the volume available for the chemistry. Length - 4mm may not be correct.

Edit: see Cell Mechanical Construction

[Barkuti]

@Hugh Johnson

If we’re comparing highest drain available by size to 18650 as a baseline, I might use 3,000 mah. …

Allright, high drain 3000mAh/18650 as baseline (all cell elements scaled in analog proportions):

• 32650 (52276.1017557342mm³/3.190083455812in³): ≈9481.48mAh.
• 26650 (34510.3952996839mm³/2.105953531376in³): ≈6259.26mAh
• 21700 (24245.2413040792mm³/1.479535400855in³): ≈4397.44mAh
• 18650 (16540.4853211502mm³/1.009362343441in³): ≈3000.00mAh.
• 18500 (12723.4502470387mm³/0.776432571877in³): ≈2307.69mAh.
• 18350 (8906.41517292706mm³/0.543502800314in³): ≈1615.38mAh.
• 14500 (7696.90200129499mm³/0.469693778049in³): ≈1396.01mAh.
• 16340 (6836.10561421139mm³/0.417164759606in³): ≈1239.88mAh.
• 10440 (3455.75191894877mm³/0.210882920757in³): ≈626.78mAh.
• 10180 (1413.71669411541mm³/0.086270285764in³): ≈256.41mAh.

@Tom Tom

…

I particularly dislike the 14500, no more energy than an 18350 or even an eneloop, and seemingly no progress in development, an orphan I think. Also dangerous if confused with an AA in something that can’t take three times the voltage. I stick with them for a couple of BLF torches that can take no other. If only the tube had been made a couple of mm larger I could have used 18500 for far better performance.

…

It obviously is not a fair comparison because AA Ni-MH has seen big brand development for the consumer market, though due to lackluster low voltage (0.8+V) boost driver technology and current losses 14500 cells usually are the best solution for 14500/AA torches featuring li-ion low voltage protection.

There are a couple of 16500 cells available from Efest and Sibeile, seen them on eBay from Torchy the Battery Boy (BLF user link). The Sibeile was rated 1200mAh with about the same drain capability as the Efest. Their sales were limited to the UK, though.

Cheers

Original post date: Mon, 04/02/2018 - 20:08. Edited for a small semantics fixup.

[CRX]

You guys need to start up a factory

[moderator007]

@CRX

You guys need to start up a factory

:+1: I second that.

[Tom_Tom]

@Barkuti

It obviously is not a fair comparison because AA Ni-MH has seen big brand development for the consumer market, though due to lackluster low voltage (0.8+V) boost driver technology and current losses it usually is the best solution for 14500/AA torches featuring li-ion low voltage protection.

Not so unfair. My old Olight S15, which is maybe a 250 lumen torch on NimH, 350 on Liion, has a pretty good buck-boost driver and runs just as well on an eneloop as a 14500. Absolute maximum brightness is slightly less. since a NimH can’t compete with the maximum current capability of the 14500, but for what I use it for (mostly lower levels), there is no point in the 14500, indeed the eneloop works better and I think for longer.

So single cell NimH/Liion drivers can work well.

Also the S15 doesn’t LVP the 14500, I’ve killed a couple due to this. Whereas it looks after the NimH, which are pretty indestructible anyway, even recoverable at 0V.

The S15 has been replaced in my affection by the On The Road M3, smaller, much much brighter (900 lumens), 5C tint etc, only possible with the very good Liion 16340 cell. Partnered with the coat pocket X5 26650, same performance, same LED, same tint, tighter beam, great duration, USB rechargeable, and includes another excellent OTR cell, 5300 mAh.

I’d like to see some capacity estimates with more realistic assumption of internal cell volume available for the chemistry. Suggest TK’s assumption of 1mm cell walls circumferential (2mm on diameter), but perhaps 5 or 6mm less length. Tweak this number until the results fit the facts, then review.

[ToyKeeper]

These are all just napkin math, of course. Nothing more than a rough idea what the capacity could potentially be if all cells had the same insides, given some oversimplified assumptions about what goes into each cell.

But it does suggest that 18650 is unusually good for its size, compared to pretty much any other form factor, and it’s probably due to the amount of development companies have put into it. Other sizes could probably be improved a lot if they were given more attention.

[HKJ]

@ToyKeeper

But it does suggest that 18650 is unusually good for its size, compared to pretty much any other form factor, and it’s probably due to the amount of development companies have put into it. Other sizes could probably be improved a lot if they were given more attention.

I would expect 18650 and 20xxx/21xxx to be the best cells.

[Tom_Tom]

Tesla/Panasonic reckon their 21700 is now the optimal way forward for their automotive and powerwall applications, using their construction technology. Different optimisation (and chemistries) than for laptops, torches etc. Displacing current Tesla 18650 cells.

I think they know what they are doing but whether it will ripple down to us any time soon, except as copycat stuff, I’m not so sure. I think 18650 is still here to stay for a long time. And is a good diameter for a handheld torch.

18650 has been the standard for chunky laptops etc. for a long time, it was never intended as a standalone replaceable item, but to be embedded in battery packs, tabbed together, with battery management system and protection etc. Slimline devices use other things now.

[joechina]

On page Y11 in this PDF
http://www.juliandehoog.com/publications/2015_JES_18650testing.pdf
is an x-ray of a 18650 and other pics.
So someone can calculate the available volume for the electrochemistry parts.
Besides of top and bottom space I think there is also always a center rod which took away volume.

Table I on page Y12 gives values for electrode areas

[Hugh_Johnson]

I just ordered one of these cells along with a bunch of other stuff. Can’t wait.

[SKV89]

I found the Aspire 18350 still available here. Not sure how many they have left. I just bought 4 of these and 4 of the VTC5D. There is a 15% off Memorial Day coupon “HONOR15” that last from now till May 29.

Aspire 18350 1100mah
https://www.rtdvapor.com/aspire-18350-1100mah/

Vapcell Sony VTC5D $10
https://www.rtdvapor.com/vapcell-inr-18650-2800mah-25a/

Also from the picture, the top button of VTC5D here doesn’t look recessed like the one I bought from Illumn.com, which doesn’t work in many flashlights that the VTC6 flat tops works in. Hopefully the actual product I receive does not have a “recessed” flat top like the illumn.com ones.

[SKV89]

Here are my capacity test results using Xtar VP4 Plus Dragon charger.

Aspire 18350 1,100 mah: 1,108, 1,102, 1,166, 1,160

Vapcell 18350 1,100 mah: 1,156, 1,155, 1,019, 1,149, 1,126

I think both Vapcell and Aspire rewrap the same cell.

[RobertB]

@SKV89

Here are my capacity test results using Xtar VP4 Plus Dragon charger.

Aspire 18350 1,100 mah: 1,108, 1,102, 1,166, 1,160

Vapcell 18350 1,100 mah: 1,156, 1,155, 1,019, 1,149, 1,126

I think both Vapcell and Aspire rewrap the same cell.

Yes they do. The cells are from Yongdeli New Energy Battery factory. Tony, the owner of Aspire E-Cigs is or was part owner. Since nobody uses 18650’s 18350’s in the vape business anymore, he quit selling them under the Aspire name. Pretty sure the Keeppower 18350 is the same cell also.

[KawiBoy1428]

@SKV89

Here are my capacity test results using Xtar VP4 Plus Dragon charger.

Aspire 18350 1,100 mah: 1,108, 1,102, 1,166, 1,160

Vapcell 18350 1,100 mah: 1,156, 1,155, 1,019, 1,149, 1,126

I think both Vapcell and Aspire rewrap the same cell.

Yep…I believe so too…I have a few (too many) 4S/2S XHP35/70.2 lights and the Vapcell’s perform in output measurements the same as the Aspires. I was sweating bullets when I heard the Aspires were discontinued! :cry:

But now :partying_face: :+1:

[Lightbringer]

@RobertB

Since nobody uses 18650’s in the vape business anymore…

Really? What do they use now?

18650s used to be The Battery, last I heard (not that I’m into the vaping scene…).

Common Hammond box(es) were the perfect size for their conversion kits or whatever they used ’em for.

[RobertB]

@Lightbringer

@RobertB

Since nobody uses 18650’s in the vape business anymore…

Really? What do they use now?

18650s used to be The Battery, last I heard (not that I’m into the vaping scene…).

Common Hammond box(es) were the perfect size for their conversion kits or whatever they used ’em for.

Oops, meant to say 18350’s. Corrected it above, thx

[RobertB]

Here’s where the are Aspire, Vapcell, & KP 18350s are made.

http://ydlxnycom.cw616.4everdns.com/pc/en/product_d1.asp?idd=62&ids=4&SortID=18&id=18&idid=4&ord=5

[DavidEF]

@RobertB

@Lightbringer

@RobertB

Since nobody uses 18650’s in the vape business anymore…

Really? What do they use now?

18650s used to be The Battery, last I heard (not that I’m into the vaping scene…).

Common Hammond box(es) were the perfect size for their conversion kits or whatever they used ’em for.

Oops, meant to say 18350’s. Corrected it above, thx

Also, it is true that some vapers are moving to 20700/21700 cells now. I don’t know what the extent of it is, but it will probably increase as even better cells are developed in the new size(s).

[SKV89]

@RobertB

Here’s where the are Aspire, Vapcell, & KP 18350s are made.

http://ydlxnycom.cw616.4everdns.com/pc/en/product_d1.asp?idd=62&ids=4&SortID=18&id=18&idid=4&ord=5

I read tests results (I think it was Mooch) said the KeepPower 18350 is not the same and performs a little inferior to the other two.

[Trisky]

you are right