I’m not out, but I have to agree that I thought the goal here was for the light’s size to be somewhat…manageable. It may not be comfortable in my jeans pocket, but I was hoping for at least jacket-pocketable. And if we’re going to the trouble of having a great US shop make these lights from scratch, I think we should have our own design instead of copying a factory light, no matter how good that light is.
Also, while my preference would be for the dual-switch setup with something like Narsil, I can see how that doesn’t really fit the original design goal here. So I can go along with a more simple tail switch only setup in this light if that’s what the group decides.
So that’s my input, for whatever its worth.
EDIT: I don’t think I’ve seen it stated here yet, and it may be too early to tell, but can I ask TexasLumens what sort of MOQ we’d need for you to be able to realistically build this light? Normally with the Chinese outfits its at least several hundred but I’m seeing the same handful of names in this thread over and over, plus there’s the international shipping cost issue, so if there’s only a few dozen of us can this still go forward? Or should we be considering a backup, Chinese-based plan like that LD-2?
Thanks for all the input You’ll. It’s been a lot for me to shift through and analyze. The driver looks like the LD-2 or some slight variant of it. As I said in the past I’ve put a lot of Solarforce lights together for first Responders in my area. I ask them what modes. The most popular is high/low, then low/medium/high. High only, high/strobe, high/low/strobe finish out in much lower numbers. Most are 2-3 modes and a few want strobe. These lights only went to 1000 lumens max. On a 26650 battery I wanted to push the limit to 3000 lumens. This would push the mode count up. 8 amp new territory 3000 lumens, 3 amp old 1000 lumen max is now high, traditional medium and low. I’ve had more than a few want a really low or moonlight for stealth or to preserve night vision. Strobe is still used by a few, myself included. This pushes a 2-3 mode light to 6 modes. Traditional single tail switch operations have a lot more to scroll though. If I had to press a light switch 6 extra times every time I accidentally missed a mode, I’d leave it in the car next to the crappy Stinger. With two switches I can set my mode and forget about that oops. If the E-switch is not practical then it’s probably a 4 mode light; turbo, high, medium and low. Look at most American style lights that have a side switch. Their scalloped on the body then raise at the switch so finding them with gloves can even be done. With the use of much smaller light the switches went to the tails. It’s almost an instinctual place to put the thumb. That why I think the tail switch on/off with a side switch for mode tuning is the way to go.
I can show you at work a desk draw full of good Streamlight flashlights missing the rubber switch cover. Streamlight believes that you should have to completely strip the guts to replace the button cover. One day the Lt. will order the parts. I’m the technical guy at work I’ll end up fixing all of them. The E-switch for the BLF 26650 if possible needs to be durable and water proof. If not then omitted from the design.
I thought I’d put in what we use lights for. The brightest mode for parking lots, fields. Wrap your hand around the bezel as a seal and press it to an overly tinted window and it punches light through. Lower modes for building searches. I like to use a lot more than needed. To keep from blinding myself I shine the light up at an angle letting ceiling bounce light the way. Turn a corner this way and no short distance wall bounce blinding the user. Works on carpet too, tile glares back. Hot spot up, spill forward and you get good results. A few taps to say to the squad car that pulled up to assist “I’m here”. But this causes mode scrolling so it’s modified to hand shaking that give the strobe effect as the beam crosses the car. We stick orange cones to our lights for traffic control, medium only. We stick them on their tail when the powers out, low to medium. You may live in a trouble free grid. Abandoned buildings have no power, offices in an old warehouse are pitch black in the back. These have been turned into transient homes then crime scenes. A tail standing light come in handy. More accidents happen in the rain, we work in the rain. I’ve come home drenched, my lights I build get two days in the pool to check waterproofing. We like to drop wet things and dry too, it must be robust beyond compare. Sometimes we don’t have time for the baton when we it get physical. Lights have been a good substitution for years, on a mag-lite you hold at the head and hit with the tube. Short lights used like kubatons.
Ask yourself can you operate it behind your back. There are at time looking at my light is when I’ll get surprised. Now picture this, it’s a very rare occurrence but it happen. I’ve drawn my weapon in a dark area. Light in one hand pistol in the other. I’m pointing towards a car with a few people in it and currently ordering the driver out. It’s still not enough light for me. One press on the side switch and blink free increase in light.
This is how I came to my desired design parameters. In the past we only had on/off. Modes weren’t needed because on wasn’t bright enough as it was. The XP-G changed all that. Modes and how to change them come in many flavors now. This light needs to be as technically complicated as the one you loan Granddad. Most first Responders have too much complicated equipment as it is. Thank Glaston Glock for taking the safety of the sides of pistols. I can tell a few stories of officer qualifying trying to bend triggers cause the safety was still on.
Crap, it took me a lot longer than it should to realize that LD2 is the model of the driver and not the big courui light itself. I guess I deserve that. Sorry, excuse my idiocy.
The e-switch with a rubber boot, would be weather tight, just not water proof. It would be an asset if you could go with a clear boot and lighted E-switch, for a locator in case dropped and to tell you it’s armed, so you can shut it off at the tail cap?
The only point in that narrative that made me ponder was the statement about gun in hand ordering driver out of the car and needing to bump power on the light. At that point, from everything I know, modified Weaver with tactical grip on the light is a fair standard, side e-switch would be inaccessible.
Compromise is the negotiator, best of several worlds and no one can agree on what that is. It’d be interesting to have 1000 officers, 1000 firefighters and 1000 EMS reply to a questionaire on building this light, then take the law of averages to get the “best” elements. Every time we ask, for a group buy or a custom job, we get so many answers it’s difficult to come up with a suitable end line.
There are several points in your narrative and tech list that rule out a side switch completely, as there are several points that speak very favorably for ToyKeepers Bistro UI.
Agreed, lets go forward, I got one of a few e-mails back. I asked a few people driver experts about drivers. Should be known soon, of those asked one already replied LD-2 and LD-2M. I’ve read about the LD-2 and it seems like a great driver. LD-2M absolutely no idea just learned of it today. LD-2 17mm’s, LD-2M 25mm’s should have enough clearance for both. Dale, do you know of any better than these, and what is the LD-2M?
My age might be showing in that sentence. I grew up using the Chapman then later the Ayoob technique. A few years later SureFire made the Harries technique popular. Now the new FBI method favors side switches again. Very best method is the dedicated weapon light mounted to the weapon. It frees a hand. If your a close range point shooter, the hot spot is your sight picture.
As a photographer now, I use my old shooter’s stances to stabilize the camera, some people do a bit of a double take, but hey man, if it works it works! lol I was never a police officer, but I shot competition against a lot of officers and worked with a gunsmith that shot competition and skeet, so I learned some proper techniques back in the 80’s. Couple of lifetimes ago. Been shooting long guns since I was 5. From M1-A’s to old Russian military rifles with sights that would indicate a mile. Steel butt plates, bruised shoulders, all of it.
As far as I can tell, the LD-2M has the higher amperage set-up already done. The LD-2 is a 6A driver, the LD-2M has the bumped resistor to go up to 9A or 12A. That’s the way I read it. I got LD-2’s and the sets of resistors and was upgrading them as needed. I had forgotten I had em though, I’ve had those here for months and months. My problem with them is a limited UI as compared to Bistro. ToyKeeper really hit that one out of the park and I like it a lot, also used the A6 driver for over 100 builds.
25mm should easily fit, yes, since we’re using a 26650 cell. I tend to use all 17mm, but that’s just me, I don’t even have a problem piggybacking a 10mm into a big light as it does the same job in the end for me, so capabilities aren’t really in question. The 17mm would be widely universal should something need changing down the road, where the 25mm or 22mm might be more challenging to find. It’s easier to use a step down adapter though than it is to open up the driver bay. Something to think about.
Richard has developed a re-flow pick&plug system and as such, he’s producing factory grade drivers with upgrades and revisions that are surely worthy, the ATTiny25 with FET+1 is an awesome driver and should be given serious consideration, Richard also does multiple sizes, so I would say he’d be the go to guy for the driver. He can flash guppydrv or Bistro or make new firmware as called for, he’s going to be very helpful as always and can surely set us up with a best case driver for this light, whatever form it finally takes.
I love side e-switches, but went out last night hunting possums with my 41 mag and red dot sight. I tried with the JM20 (tail power side modes) and the BLF A8 (tail only). I spent about an hour with each and with various holds and really found out that I love e-switches in general, but really hate them as a pistol light weak hand. By the way, go 3 of them in the process!
Normally I would hunt with a buddy, one shoots and one spots. But, my buddy was not there and I really wanted to test out various holds in real life. Recoil makes it kinda tough to hang on to the light. Would have been easier with a 1911 or high power, but I love my 41 maggie!
Matt, try holding the light in a tactical grip, tail switch under the thumb and head of light point out from the bottom of your fist. Hold the weapon one handed but rested on the top of the flashlight hand. Recoil will take the weapon hand up away from the light and then it’ll settle back down on your “rest” for the subsequent second shot. The light should stay on the subject constantly.
Elbow shoulder high, like you’re about to forearm a guard in football (flashlight hand).
Edit: Modify this to point up in a tree, of course. lol Forearm of flashlight hand should stay level across in front of you though, regardless of height. Weapon hand then on top of the back of your hand or even at the wrist.
I myself would like to drop the e-switch and go to a tail switch only. I fully understand what TS is saying about set it and forget it as far as modes go but at the same time it’s awkward to change modes in a hurry. I had a Nitecore EA4 that I used when I was in police explorers and I can say the side switch was awful to use when used in conjuction with a weapon. It wasn’t practical to change modes with and it never failed you couldn’t find it when you needed it (grant you the only time I used it was doing force-on force-on training and practice building clearing). Now I have a Solarforce L2 with a RMM built xhp50 drop-in. It’s running at 3A for about 1800 lumens and has guppydrv firmware. I love the guppydrv because it’s so simple and offers so many options. I keep my light set to group 2 which is 100, 25, 2% in that order with no mode memory. I like that it always starts in high but with 3 quick clicks I’m in low, if at some point I get confused as to what mode I’m in I turn it off and back on and I’m at 100%. All of this can be done single handed very quickly once you get the hang of it. I’m using a regular forward clicky so I still have momentary on and I can still tap the switch fairly quickly without changing modes. Even if it does cycle through modes its only 3 and they are still bright enough to signal with. While it was a bit of a learning curve to chose the mode I wanted before I clicked the switch it’s no longer a big deal. For me I still feel like a tail switch is the best option unless we can get a UI that works like Fenix’s tactical series does where you can switch back and forth between side mode switch and tail switch for on/off or everything being controlled by the tail switch.
I do like the idea of being able to go both up and down in modes but to me I think that would add to much complication and would result in mode scrolling. I know a lot of times for me I will press and hold the switch for a seconds while I’m doing something instead of just clicking it on. I’m not sure why I do this but if looking underneath or inside of something I will pull out my light, hold the switch, look, and then let go. If I understand how the A6 driver works that would result in me scrolling down in modes correct?
I too am curious about a MOQ. I feel like this is going to end up being bought by a limited number of us so how does that work TL?
Yup, that is the hold. Have shot a few IPSC and IDPA matches in the dark, but not with a full house 41 Mag. First shot has to hit, the muzzle blast is a killer in the dark, even with 2400!
You say that like a full house 41 Mag is so much!
I used to hand load .45 Long Colt to beyond .44 Mag levels, shot out of , at first, a 5 shot Taurus snubnose (2”) of all things! Then a single action Ruger Vacquero, the older ones that could take it. Ported it, tuned it, loved that weapon! Short version is, lost it.
Possums with a .41 huh? Overkill? lol
Thanks for confirming that I was on the right track.
Overkill… yes, but it is my favorite wheel gun for woods walking. Use it in the fall for deer with a case full of h110 data powder and a 280 wfn. Have meaner guns, but my favorite.
I’m down to two .45 LC’s, it’s 45 Super for me now. Or was until my rotator cuff heals. I used to shoot Pin matches and IDPA, fun to be young and fast. Getting old SBR’s in minor calibers is my thing now.
But this is all off topic. Just waiting for a few more E-mails on the driver options. It’s really looking like it might happen.
What about a tail-switch only light with med-tap to change modes, and short tap can be free so someone can do manual signaling? So, the driver would have to recognize short, med, long off times and only the medium off times would change modes. Three or four modes only.
Got a few more E-mails back this morning and they all say LD-2M. Led4power also recommended it. So it’s a single cell 26650 with a tail switch running a triple XP-L V6. Probably 4 modes. Led4power said he would check if it could do a battery status led and that he set up something like that on a LD-1.
