BLF Kronos X6/X5 GB - Group Buy now closed.

[onetrickpony]

Just so that people understand why I’m saying I highly doubt the different bodies will affect current, here’s my thinking. Btw, if I had some decent high drain batteries I’d just test the millivolt drop like Sharpie mentioned but I don’t so here it is.

Imagine the line below is a resistor. Current is flowing vertically through this line. It has a value of resistance and just so that it’s simple we’ll call that value 100.

I

Next, we’ll draw two lines in parallel, this reduces the resistance by half, and will allow twice as much current to pass. The current will pass through both lines vertically as it completes the circuit. Now we have a value of resistance of 50.

II

Let’s do ten lines, now we have resistance of 1/10th the original single line had, which is just 10. (Values like 100 are nice and easy, eh?)

IIIIIIIIII

Now, for the sake of simplicity, let’s divide the body of the flashlight into 100 longitudinal strips of metal from the tailcap to the head, each of which would have a value of resistance. Now, without getting technical the electrical resistivity of stainless steel IS higher than that of aluminum, but in this situation it probably has almost no effect because we have so much reduction of resistance by having so much metal for the current to pass through.

Here’s my rough diagram of what the flashlight body might look like represented by the lines.

IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

Now, there are situations where differing metals make a massive difference. The gauge of the wires and the material used as a conductor make massive differences when we try to push several amps through them. Too light of a wire can heat up and desolder itself from a connection.

To wit, it might make a difference in the body of a flashlight if that light was pulling say 100 amps, or if the body was ten feet long. Since neither of these situations seem common, I’m not going to worry about it.

EDIT: If you didn’t see the lines the html wasn’t showing them, I had to replace them with capital I’s…

[keengeorge]

@onetrickpony

Just so that people understand why I’m saying I highly doubt the different bodies will affect current, here’s my thinking. Btw, if I had some decent high drain batteries I’d just test the millivolt drop like Sharpie mentioned but I don’t so here it is.

Imagine the line below is a resistor. Current is flowing vertically through this line. It has a value of resistance and just so that it's simple we'll call that value 100.

I

Next, we'll draw two lines in parallel, this reduces the resistance by half, and will allow twice as much current to pass. The current will pass through both lines vertically as it completes the circuit. Now we have a value of resistance of 50.

II

Let's do ten lines, now we have resistance of 1/10th the original single line had, which is just 10. (Values like 100 are nice and easy, eh?)

IIIIIIIIII

Now, for the sake of simplicity, let's divide the body of the flashlight into 100 longitudinal strips of metal from the tailcap to the head, each of which would have a value of resistance. Now, without getting technical the electrical resistivity of stainless steel IS higher than that of aluminum, but in this situation it probably has almost no effect because we have so much reduction of resistance by having so much metal for the current to pass through.

Here's my rough diagram of what the flashlight body might look like represented by the lines.

IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII :-D

Now, there are situations where differing metals make a massive difference. The gauge of the wires and the material used as a conductor make massive differences when we try to push several amps through them. Too light of a wire can heat up and desolder itself from a connection.

To wit, it might make a difference in the body of a flashlight if that light was pulling say 100 amps, or if the body was ten feet long. Since neither of these situations seem common, I'm not going to worry about it.

EDIT: If you didn't see the lines the html wasn't showing them, I had to replace them with capital I's...

Hmmmm, interesting....

But I think your thought process may lead you to the wrong deduction, or maybe I didn't understand you.

Every metal has an inherent resistivity/resistance even if it has a infinite cross-sectional area (dictated by its crystalline & atomic structure).

So that Cu's resistivity/resistance will always be lower than Al's which in turn will always be lower than Steel's (for the same length & same cross-sectional area).

Edit: And I suspect this difference may be relevant but don't know how significant in our flashlight's optimised low resistance circuits.

Btw, the longer the body of the flashlight (the electrical path) then the higher the resistance (for the same effective cross-sectional area).

Best Regards,

George

[onetrickpony]

@keengeorge

@onetrickpony

Just so that people understand why I’m saying I highly doubt the different bodies will affect current, here’s my thinking. Btw, if I had some decent high drain batteries I’d just test the millivolt drop like Sharpie mentioned but I don’t so here it is.

Imagine the line below is a resistor. Current is flowing vertically through this line. It has a value of resistance and just so that it’s simple we’ll call that value 100.

I

Next, we’ll draw two lines in parallel, this reduces the resistance by half, and will allow twice as much current to pass. The current will pass through both lines vertically as it completes the circuit. Now we have a value of resistance of 50.

II

Let’s do ten lines, now we have resistance of 1/10th the original single line had, which is just 10. (Values like 100 are nice and easy, eh?)

IIIIIIIIII

Now, for the sake of simplicity, let’s divide the body of the flashlight into 100 longitudinal strips of metal from the tailcap to the head, each of which would have a value of resistance. Now, without getting technical the electrical resistivity of stainless steel IS higher than that of aluminum, but in this situation it probably has almost no effect because we have so much reduction of resistance by having so much metal for the current to pass through.

Here’s my rough diagram of what the flashlight body might look like represented by the lines.

IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

Now, there are situations where differing metals make a massive difference. The gauge of the wires and the material used as a conductor make massive differences when we try to push several amps through them. Too light of a wire can heat up and desolder itself from a connection.

To wit, it might make a difference in the body of a flashlight if that light was pulling say 100 amps, or if the body was ten feet long. Since neither of these situations seem common, I’m not going to worry about it.

EDIT: If you didn’t see the lines the html wasn’t showing them, I had to replace them with capital I’s…

Hmmmm, interesting….

But I think your thought process may lead you to the wrong deduction, or maybe I didn’t understand you.

Every metal has an inherent resistivity/resistance even if it has a infinite cross-sectional area (dictated by its crystalline & atomic structure).

So that Cu’s resistivity/resistance will always be lower than Al’s which in turn will always be lower than Steel’s (for the same length & same cross-sectional area).

Edit: And I suspect this difference may be relevant in our flashlight’s optimised low resistance circuits.

Btw, the longer the body of the flashlight (the electrical path) then the higher the resistance (for the same effective cross-sectional area).

Best Regards,

George

Yep, I mentioned that a longer body would increase the resistance at the end of my diatribe The thing you’re missing is that cross sectional area is huge, compared to say, a wire. In my thinking that alone would discount any increased resistance at the currents we’re talking about, but I could be wrong. I’m not all that good with the math involved here to just do the calculations, although they are absolutely possible.

If anyone is up for a math problem, just look up this link and scroll down to the table. You’d need the cross sectional area of the flashlight tube, the length of the tube, and the resistivity value from the table for each material.

Electrical resistivity and conductivity

[keengeorge]

@onetrickpony

@keengeorge

@onetrickpony

Just so that people understand why I’m saying I highly doubt the different bodies will affect current, here’s my thinking. Btw, if I had some decent high drain batteries I’d just test the millivolt drop like Sharpie mentioned but I don’t so here it is.

Imagine the line below is a resistor. Current is flowing vertically through this line. It has a value of resistance and just so that it's simple we'll call that value 100.

I

Next, we'll draw two lines in parallel, this reduces the resistance by half, and will allow twice as much current to pass. The current will pass through both lines vertically as it completes the circuit. Now we have a value of resistance of 50.

II

Let's do ten lines, now we have resistance of 1/10th the original single line had, which is just 10. (Values like 100 are nice and easy, eh?)

IIIIIIIIII

Now, for the sake of simplicity, let's divide the body of the flashlight into 100 longitudinal strips of metal from the tailcap to the head, each of which would have a value of resistance. Now, without getting technical the electrical resistivity of stainless steel IS higher than that of aluminum, but in this situation it probably has almost no effect because we have so much reduction of resistance by having so much metal for the current to pass through.

Here's my rough diagram of what the flashlight body might look like represented by the lines.

IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII :-D

Now, there are situations where differing metals make a massive difference. The gauge of the wires and the material used as a conductor make massive differences when we try to push several amps through them. Too light of a wire can heat up and desolder itself from a connection.

To wit, it might make a difference in the body of a flashlight if that light was pulling say 100 amps, or if the body was ten feet long. Since neither of these situations seem common, I'm not going to worry about it.

EDIT: If you didn't see the lines the html wasn't showing them, I had to replace them with capital I's...

Hmmmm, interesting....

But I think your thought process may lead you to the wrong deduction, or maybe I didn't understand you.

Every metal has an inherent resistivity/resistance even if it has a infinite cross-sectional area (dictated by its crystalline & atomic structure).

So that Cu's resistivity/resistance will always be lower than Al's which in turn will always be lower than Steel's (for the same length & same cross-sectional area).

Edit: And I suspect this difference may be relevant but don't know how significant in our flashlight's optimised low resistance circuits.

Btw, the longer the body of the flashlight (the electrical path) then the higher the resistance (for the same effective cross-sectional area).

Best Regards,

George

Yep, I mentioned that a longer body would increase the resistance at the end of my diatribe :) The thing you're missing is that cross sectional area is huge, compared to say, a wire. In my thinking that alone would discount any increased resistance at the currents we're talking about, but I could be wrong. I'm not all that good with the math involved here to just do the calculations, although they are absolutely possible.

If anyone is up for a math problem, just look up this link and scroll down to the table. You'd need the cross sectional area of the flashlight tube, the length of the tube, and the resistivity value from the table for each material.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_resistivity_and_conductivity

No, I am not missing that. But the effective cross-sectional area may still be "too low" in a very low resistance circuit.

Therefore the difference due to the different metals may be relevant & ?significant.

And it would be far simpler to measure this with appropriate gear, rather than calculating an approximation to the effective circuit length & effective cross-sectional area.

Best Regards,

George

[pilotdog68]

I’d be very surprised if there was any performance difference between SS and Alu sets because of the metal used. I can see issues of coatings on threads and bad thread contact possibly, but I feel the difference in performance of the two metals in this context would be infinitesimal.

edited for readability.

[keengeorge]

@pilotdog68

I’d be very surprised if there was any performance difference between SS and Alu sets because of the metal used. I can see issues of coatings on threads and bad thread contact, but the difference in performance of the two metals I feel would be infinitesimal in this context.

Yep, that will most likely be more significant, but we are just guessing/estimating/approximating. Accurate/reliable measurements will tell us for "certain"

I have often found that my assumptions/approximations/deductions have been proven wrong by actual measurements.

Best Regards,

George

[GeeKeR]

So… is it too late to get one of the SS/Cu sets with the box for $96?

[1dash1]

@GeeKeR

So… is it too late to get one of the SS/Cu sets with the box for $96?

[J-Dub74]

@1dash1

@GeeKeR

So… is it too late to get one of the SS/Cu sets with the box for $96?

Oh Snap! GeeKeR you got told! Welcome to BLF.

[UliBär]

Ok, you guys discuss really interesting things, but i meanwhile contacted Neal on the 25th of February and also on 1st of March, not a single answer to my concerns. The reflector of my Aluminum X6 is borked to at least something like orange peel something - really not polished to best performance at all! Still got not a single answer. I don’t want to be a PITA, but i still want my concerns resolved.

BTW:
I never complained about the totally broken wooden box in my numbered set, because i take it as a “normal loss” regarding Chinese orders, but i really want a flawless reflector for my AL-X6!

…

[cabfrank]

I hope we can buy new replacement reflectors too. Not sure it will happen though. In the meantime, I really love the XP-L HI in these lights. Great throw, and really intense hotspot.

[UliBär]

@cabfrank

I hope we can buy new replacement reflectors too. Not sure it will happen though. In the meantime, I really love the XP-L HI in these lights. Great throw, and really intense hotspot.

Yeah, that’s, what i really love on the other sets of X6/5-Cu/SS lights! That’s, why i want a flawless reflector on my AL-X6 too!
The other lights throw like hell, but my AL-X6 is more like a nowadays flooder…

[cabfrank]

Well I hope you can get one, and I will buy a couple too.

[ToyKeeper]

@onetrickpony

Nobody has actually tested it yet but I highly doubt there is a noticeable difference.

It’s not very hard to test this, and it’s certainly a lot better than speculating about it at length.

So, I tested my SS X6 vs Al X6. Both are 3B tint, both have clean lenses and no mods. Same cell, alternating between the two hosts. In order:

1. Steel: 1428 lm
2. Aluminum: 1274 lm
3. Steel: 1400 lm
4. Aluminum: 1238 lm

I expect the brightness would continue to drop with more tests, as the cell drains.

Anyway, my steel X6 is consistently brighter than my aluminum X6, in both lumens and lux, in every test I’ve ever done with the two. I don’t think the steel has any significant detrimental effect on the output. If anything, the anodizing on the aluminum might significantly decrease the contact area for current to flow through.

Other people’s measurements are encouraged.

Edit: It also occurs to me that the black aluminum bezel might reduce light box values in ways the shiny steel bezel does not. So, this is another factor to test at some point…

[antiparanoico]

A few days ago I received my two sets SS/Cu, wooden box.
The two boxes have some dings/scratches, one has lost a little piece of vaneer. The two X5 have some dings on tailcap and head.
No complaint… These damages are old war wounds.

All work fine.
I ordered 3B tint but one X6 came with CW.

For me… good deal. Thanks.

The Al set not yet ordered, I will wait until the avalability of the wooden boxes.

[onetrickpony]

@ToyKeeper

@onetrickpony

Nobody has actually tested it yet but I highly doubt there is a noticeable difference.

It’s not very hard to test this, and it’s certainly a lot better than speculating about it at length.

So, I tested my SS X6 vs Al X6. Both are 3B tint, both have clean lenses and no mods. Same cell, alternating between the two hosts. In order:

1. Steel: 1428 lm
2. Aluminum: 1274 lm
3. Steel: 1400 lm
4. Aluminum: 1238 lm

I expect the brightness would continue to drop with more tests, as the cell drains.

Anyway, my steel X6 is consistently brighter than my aluminum X6, in both lumens and lux, in every test I’ve ever done with the two. I don’t think the steel has any significant detrimental effect on the output.

Other people’s measurements are encouraged.

Thanks for that TK, I realize it isn’t difficult but my cells aren’t very good and I don’t have a lux meter. The speculation was only there because I thought those that haven’t had much experience with electronics etc. might find it interesting.

The reason I mention my cells is that at lower currents the difference between the metals would be even less noticeable/measurable.

I am curious why the stainless light can pull more current though. Perhaps the increased contact area?

[ToyKeeper]

@onetrickpony

I realize it isn’t difficult but …

Oh, sorry. I didn’t mean to direct any snark at you. I’m actually rather glad you brought up the idea of measuring it. I’ve been getting a little tired of people going on about theories and speculation when they could simply run a test and be done with it.

[onetrickpony]

@ToyKeeper

@onetrickpony

I realize it isn’t difficult but …

Oh, sorry. I didn’t mean to direct any snark at you. I’m actually rather glad you brought up the idea of measuring it. I’ve been getting a little tired of people going on about theories and speculation when they could simply run a test and be done with it.

More than a fair perspective considering

[Rufusbduck]

This only came up because using two different cells I had 3+A through the SS X6 and 4+A through the A6 with both cells. It sounds like the issue is one of contact rather than materials but since I haven’t torn it down yet I can’t say for sure. 9A triple from Dale sounds low offhand.

[onetrickpony]

@Rufusbduck

9A triple from Dale sounds low offhand.

This made me chuckle.