Concerns about Convoy's quality control and suggestions for improvement

LED Flashlights – General Info
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I had posted on reddit, but I didn’t want it to be taken the wrong way so I deleted it. A forum is more suited for discussion anyway.

I’ve been selling Convoy for 7+ years and since Covid the quality control has been getting worse and worse. This thread is about bringing these things to Simon’s attention and to hopefully provide a solution together as a community.

This is a list of issues that I find regularly:

  • Flux splashes on LEDs
  • Screws missing from mcpcb
  • Screws left loose to try center the LEDs with round gaskets
  • LEDs off center with round gaskets
  • Dusty reflectors / lens
  • S2 UV ships without a gasket causing bad focus, short circuit risk (S2+ UV is fine)
  • Remote switches with poor soldering and cold joints (not always, but encounter often)
  • Getian GT Red & Green badly over driven (more on this below)
  • L21B new batch with Osram LEDs out of focus
  • Batch inconsistencies concerning the focus
  • 3X21C/D with sharp cell slots shredding wraps (I sand every unit)
  • Buck/boost driver issues (fixed, but old batch still shipping)

The Getian GT Red and Green are paired with 8A drivers. I measured the lumens for both at 4A & 8A to find at 8A the output is less than at 4A. Simon said they won’t burn out until 9.5A, but I want max output at that sweet spot, not LEDs being over driven and shortening their life. The datasheet doesn’t show any max current, but it’s certainly not happy with 8A.

The new L21B batch is out of focus with reflectors that have a 9mm hole. I found that an extra 0.5mm needs to be added to the existing gasket. Simon now uses a thicker round gasket for the SFT40, which has helped, but still around 50m less than previous batch, needs 0.2mm added if you care.The Osram LEDs are what currently perform the worst. The CLSNM1/PM1 now comes with the larger 4040 gasket because they’re 0.2mm thicker than the 3030, this makes them now harder to center. The range is roughly 150m less than if an extra 0.5mm is added to the 4040 gasket. Results in a larger corona with a smaller hotspot.

The current C8+ batch of reflectors required thicker black gaskets. This shows with the new L21B batch that there’s inconsistency from batch to batch.

The round gaskets with off center LEDs are a problem, why isn’t this an issue for other brands?. Sofirn and Wurkkos don’t struggle with this.

I think the cause for poor QC is that so many people are requesting too much from Simon. He’s getting so many requests for a bazillion different LEDs, drivers, models, that it’s too hard to try monitor what goes on with all the different options available. This is a reason for concern when QC is getting worse. We should put the brakes on a bit and try requesting more attention to the QC and fix that first before anything else. Maybe, just maybe, Simon needs to reduce how many options are available for each flashlight model. This would be to ensure those LEDs used are focused correctly from batch to batch. Then leave it to the individual to mod each model with all the LEDs and drivers that are available.

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I have also noticed some of these points. I would also like to add the sometimes inadequate product description in the store (missing order codes for LEDs, incomplete information, incorrect images as with the AMC drivers recently and the following discussion with simon, although this was still on Aliexpress - but tbf, he then sent me the right drivers with correct MCU free of charge, very nice support!).

But I also think that the sheer mass of requests simply means that there is simply no adequate alternative to Convoy. There are only a few really affordable customizable lights and since Fasttech and other shops are gone, good selection of modding parts. Because Emisar (Hank) is simply very expensive, which I also see in the spare parts (16 $ for 1 pc. 6V boost driver, wtf), this is not a real alternative.
Simon offers a very fair price and - with his own store - very fast free (!) shipping (at least to Germany) within 4-6 days. This makes Convoy to a very good shop even if I am more in hurry to get specific parts.
The shortcomings are of course there - I have already made several observations myself in this regard, such as questionably shaped and sometimes miscast (?) aftermarket lenses for the S21F, which destroy the LEDs, LED boards that are not deburred, which can cause the S21F LEDs to overheat, and off-center LEDs with a round gasket, which is supposed to be intentional, according to his explanation.

I also don’t like the secret change of tried and well known designs, such as the thinner battery tube on the T3 (which doesn’t look nice in my opinion) or the modified knurling on the classic S2+. Not a big deal in itself, but still not so nice.

As far as that is concerned, I wonder whether the many configurations and variants for non-modders (who should definitely be in the majority here!) are what make it so successful. I don’t think it’s a good idea to greatly reduce this again. That is precisely the attraction: getting a lamp that is NOT off the shelf and that is equipped with more exotic LEDs (which are otherwise not available or works in other lamps).
I have already given away one or two Convoy lamps, for example a T3, because it also runs on Eneloop, is very attractively priced and very robust.

I think Simon has (without really knowing it or consciously planning it) opened up a new target group: non-modders and even muggles. Of course, they now come up with all kinds of suggestions and requests regarding LEDs, drivers and hosts because they can’t solder themselves or don’t want to do it. In addition, there is also the effort involved in setting up his own online store, where Simon (according to his own statement) had hardly any experience and would certainly have to do it himself.

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Convoy provides a grest service to the flashlight community. Convoy took up the slack from these companies Gearbest, Fasttech, Kaidomain etc that provide lackluster shipping and customer service and higher prices. Simon’s customer service itself makes it worth buying form Convoy and the level of product innovation, selection, and diversity in the last 2 years has been remarkable. However you can’t grow this fast and not have some snafus. I personally have only had issues related to the buck and boost drivers prematurely throttling the output, but that’s been fixed (despite some faulty ones still in circulation). Not sure how to fix those issues other than maybe a TSB and self-fix like the gaskets.

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I too experienced some issues such as hot spot not being centered and random individual leds blinking on quad lights.

On one hand, they are cheap so you get what you paid for but I would like better quality control and I would be willing to pay more if that was an option.

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There’s premature output drop on 6V 4A driver I purchased 2 months ago. it happens randomly as soon as the highest mode is selected. Is this a hardware problem or firmware related? The problems that are not so obvious to others is that we are stuck with whatever firmware he chooses, be it an clone of an existing UI instead of being able to add own like in the past with attiny/nangj drivers.

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Most MCPCB’s I know have screws just to prevent them from turning (and leads from snapping) when you remove the head. MCPCB’s with a bit of play are also more easy when centering the LED. The position of the reflector is leading in the centering process, not the MCPCB.

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Your account on Reddit just got suspended. What is going on?

I’ll just respond here.

Cannot be said better! Custom configurations take a ton of time and effort to make, and I’ve been seeing so many random requests for new colors, new designs, and lights made from new metals. All of these take a tremendous amount of time and money to accomplish.

At this moment I think Simon would do best to decline some of these requests (or charge more for the extra time and effort, both as compensation and as deterrent), and focus on optimizing existing lights. Also simplifying the existing collection–many of the lights have consistent issues (e.g., misshapen reflectors, ringy beams, bad waterproofing) and might be better discontinued in favor of better-optimized models. If someone buys a Convoy light, they should be expected to have the ability to just buy spare parts and modify/customize on their own, and not impinge on Simon’s time with no compensation.

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Yep, I agree.
Reddit is a lot more toxic than BLF, too. :+1:

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This is just a community post to discuss how to fix some issues.

I have no contract or anything with Simon, I’m simply someone who orders in bulk off Alibaba.

Just to be clear, I’ve discussed most of these things with Simon over the last couple of years. This post is shared to just discuss ideas of a resolution.

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I hope they have been fixed, but no one yet has this new batch to confirm, all we have to go on is Simon’s response to me over on the Convoy thread. I can confirm the 22mm 8A buck driver was fixed and sold almost immediately, but I still have stock showing up with the issue on 17mm buck drivers.

The problem is that I invest so much time trying to resolve issues with Simon, then along comes a new batch and I have to do it all over again. The only reason the L21B was so successful is because I provided Simon the correct gasket thickness, then the new C8+ was out of focus and these L21B thicker gaskets were also used to fix it. Now with this new L21B batch we’re right back where we started, with it out of focus, requiring the same +0.5mm needing to be added, only this time Simon isn’t getting new gaskets, so I’m left to either 1. sell them as is at 150m less range, 2. make my own gaskets by sanding a second gasket and gluing them together, or 3. pay Simon $100 usd to produce my own custom gasket of 2000pcs. The 3rd option was considered, but this would be 3-4 different gaskets requiring $100 each type.

I would be happy if it was only the centering of the LEDs that was fixed. I can clean the surface of the LEDs myself which doesn’t take long at all. Since the reflector is pushing against the mcpcb, I think the solution would be to only use one small screw the sits down inside the mcpcb slot, only to stop it twisting when tightening the bezel.

For so many people, including yourself, they’re buying a unit here and there, and if there’s any issues then Simon replaces it. For bulk orders that’s not what happens, I get sent parts to fix it myself. Ages ago there was a terrible group reset bug on the 12 group drivers, I had to replace every unit’s driver, that was horrible for me. I had about 80 units to fix.

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Damn… I just bought the L21b with stf40 and getian green… :headstone:

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L21B with SFT40 is fine, just not the Getian. I would suggest to just set the group to one with 50% and you’re good to go. The Getian chips aren’t failing or performing badly at 8A, just lower output than if run at 4A. The question is, how long they’ll last if continuously pushed at 8A.

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Thanks for highlighting this, a lot of these sound like simple enough fixes for the manufacturer’s side. This is also a good place to openly discuss any opinion. I personally have had no issues with convoy except the sharp battery edges. Hopefully it will be fixed soon

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I have just suggested to Simon to use two small screws that sit in between the mcpcb to stop it twisting, or use two tapered rods that jam into the screw holes. When the bezel is pushing against the mcpcb there’s no need for the screws. Simon used to use rods when he first started using the osram LEDs.

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Improving QC process is very costly for manufacturers, sometimes its cheaper to replace the product instead of trying to achieve lower DOA rates. I think this is one of the reasons why Convoys are comparatively cheap. And Simon does provide good customer service in such cases.

But flaws in design are a different case, such as the gasket and the boost driver issues. Good news is that Simon is one of the most active sellers on this forum and hopefully he will remedy these issues.

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Your theory does not take into account how many sales are lost due to bad quality control. How many people are out there that bought one Convoy light that was broken then they never bought another one.

Then as well, when news spreads from posts such as this one, the effect of bad quality control is even more damaging.

Companies go out of business every day due to bad quality control.

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I’m starting to feel like this is more a me issue and most don’t really care about it. I might just need to find a solution for myself. The trouble is that I sell the C8+ and L21B at quite a large markup because of my time spent checking them all. I’d love to sell and make only like $20 NZD, but when I’m making custom gaskets, centering LEDs, removing dust, and performing a 5 min burn in test per light, it’s not possible. I markup so much because of that time spent. This still places them into a price point in New Zealand that doesn’t exist from anyone else still though, so I get heaps of sales. I just wish I didn’t have to spend so much time, and drop prices to bare minimum like a few years back when Convoy’s QC was miles ahead of the state it’s currently in.

Most would say to drop Convoy and just sell other brands, but then those brands have a minimum selling price point at way higher than I enjoy selling at. Flashlights were a hobby and that turned into a business because I damaged my spine while farming. I enjoy selling at affordable prices of gear that no other store in the country sells, so by selling the mainstream brands it takes the enjoyment out of it. I’d become just another regular store.

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It all depends on the numbers, increased prices will also decrease sales volume. I havent seen that many complaints in the Convoy thread(other than the gasket and driver issues), that thread being one of the most active ones on this forum. And I did see many posts saying Simon did resolve any quality issues they faced. I was just trying explain the QC improvement process from a manufacturer’s point of view since I work at one.

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You gotta buy in bulk and then check everything to find issues though. Most don’t check candela, lumens etc to find issues, they don’t even remove the bezel. I’m the one who discovered the buck driver premature stepdown because of my thorough testing from batch to batch. Simon said it was temp related when it wasn’t. Then another seller tried to tell Simon and he said the same thing. I spent hours making graphs to try get it noticed and fixed. Simon then admitted to a chip being used that couldn’t maintain 100%. Same goes for the focus improvements on models because I’m closely checking everything. I’m just making the point that many don’t know the issues are there because they aren’t checking. Every person I’ve told about the screws being loose on the osram units confirmed it, some almost falling out. Screws can cause a short circuit.

The only issues that really bug me are the off centered LEDs, dust on reflector (sometimes I have to request a new reflector), and loose screws. Remedy those and I’d be happy.

Possible that bulk orders don’t get checked the same as small individual orders.

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I suggest you perform only the less time consuming fixes, such as cleaning dust and flux residue. Things that are directly apparent to your customers. Other fixes should be done on a need only basis. I think most of your buyers will be happier with $10 lower price than a perfectly centered led. Again, it all depends on the numbers. Maybe 20% of your customers care about led centering, but 100% of them are paying a higher price because of this fix. It is possible that you lost more sales due to the higher price than the centering issue.

But I strongly agree that design flaws should be addressed by Simon.