Have I missed something, one that has an output similar to that of an XHP70?
Waiting for NW :money_mouth_face:
Uhh? How is it possible the XHP hole is less then the S70 while having less flood?
I mean I
1 thought that further throwing lights have a hole closer by (like the Courui XML2)
2 thought OP reflectors were used to hide the dark spot yet makes a light more flood (hence the S70 floodiness was interpreted as dark spot hiding by me)
3 reflectors L6 and S70 are almost the same if any the S70 is a little bigger if I remember correctly so I would expect more throw)
:puzzled:
It seems impossible to have both more throw AND less hole based on specs and what I think I understand from flashlights so please enlighten me 
I don’t know but maybe the focus of the led is better on one of them? Or the reflector is deeper, which would (to my understanding) mean less flood.
There are a couple factors that determine the output characteristics. But that much would you probably already know. 
Yes that puzzles me
If the S70 is better focussed one would expect the L6 to have less dark spot AND less throw
If the L6 has better throw one would expect more dark spot.
Argh!
I can light the castle tower at 820 meters with the S70.
It is my furthest throwing light.
But an even further throwing tighter beamed L6 could have a place here.
Anomalies. 2 reflectors with near identical measurements but made by different manufacturer’s can have radically different output characteristics. And then there’s focal point, aperture size, parabolic curve criteria, and sheer output power. Also the lens itself comes into play somewhere, as does the bezel.
My S70 has a dark spot in the beam profile, seriously affecting beam throw capabilities.
My L6 is en-route, so we’ll see how they compare when it get’s here. (I have plenty of cells. ) Looking for it tomorrow or Tuesday to be honest. My Maxtoch 2X Hunter will also be here tomorrow, it should seriously shame either light in the throw department, straight out of the box. lol (rated at 1208M throw)
Simon’s response was in agreement with what a few others said. He stated that the new Keeppower protected 5200mAh cells are under 70mm. Everywhere I look though I’m still seeing 71.1? I said what I did based on what info I could find just hoping to save a few people some grief but maybe Simon’s listing is correct? If so I can have him throw in a comment that it must be the newer version. I won’t do that though until I have confirmation. Can anyone confirm the data on the new Keeppower 5200s? I checked BG, Ali, and a handful of others but I can’t find anything about the new version being shorter aside from a question posted on CPF asking if anyone could confirm the length of the new KP 5200s but nobody had responded. Keeppower’s own website was useless in this regard as they do not list the cell dimensions. Simon can’t be our source for these unless you live in Russia so that counts most of us out. If someone does have a good source and can confirm they are under 70mm please post a link.
My comment that 70mm is the longest cell that will fit is based on information direct from Simon. Richard (RMM) also told me that his protected 5200s don’t fit in the L2 which has the same battery tube size as the L6. His listing for the protected 5200s states “Length: 71.46mm too long to fit in some lights”. Even if the longer cells do fit the Thorfire they may not fit the Convoy.
I found the specs on the Keeppower 26650 on this German site :
https://www.akkuteile.de/keeppower-26650-5200mah-3-6v-3-7v-9-5a-li-ion-akku-geschaeuetzt/a-12041/
The new versions of Keeppower have a more flat black wrapper, the older is more glossy.
Interesting, I wonder why the slight difference in length? Perhaps the positive end cap is made a bit differently?
Anyone know if these compare favorably to the Efest 4200mAh and Basen cells?
Dale explained all that better than I can but I will try to respond to the best of my knowledge and let others jump in to correct where I am wrong. I am not as well schooled on optics though I am learning and find it all quite fascinating. I’m a little scared to take the head apart as I don’t want to mess it up.
First lets have a look and then discuss…
Check out this picture of the two looking into the reflectors side by side.
I’m not quite sure what you are referring to here. Hole closer?
The OP reflector in the case of an XHP70 light is indeed used to hide the dark spot or cross pattern. Any time you take the same light and replace a smooth reflector with the same shaped reflector with an OP finish you reduce throw and artifacts and other reflective issues. The beam pattern is smoothed out as the OP finish “blurs” the reflected light together. This as you stated also results in more flood as we are seeing more refracted light and less reflected light.
They are very similar but not the same. The ID of the L6 reflector is as thijsco19 theorized (Nice, by the way) slightly larger than the ID of the S70 though the difference appears to be less than 1mm. I can’t visually tell if the L6 reflector is deeper. It might be, though the difference in depth (if any) is probably within a few millimeters.
The other noticeable differences are different centering rings and differences in the reflector design particularly at the bottom of the reflector. The S70 reflector has a completely flat bottom that extends for 5mm or so before the parabolic curve begins. In the L6 the bottom surface is not flat. It angles down to the emitter at perhaps 10 degree angle to the emitter shelf, and that angled surface is perhaps not even flat but may even have a very subtle curvature (parabola meets parabola?). I may be off in my use of “parabolic terminology” as I know little about it but between my wording and the pictures I think you’ll see what I mean.
My guess is that Simon’s light does have somewhat better emitter focus. I say this based on what I see in zoomies. At perfect focus you see the true outlined shape of the emitter. This can be seen in the L6 but to see it you have to position the light very close to your target surface. The S70 has a dark spot in the middle of the hot spot at all distances.
At roughly two feet and beyond the L6 hot spot is a smooth circle but look what you see when holding the L6 six inches from a wall.
Thoughts?
The L6 seems bigger, actually a lot bigger difference.
And it could be the angle but it seems the L6 also has a much bigger yellow lod reflection.
But I guesss this is all angles playing tricks.
Yeah the base if totally different, and Dale explained there is much more going on in these reflectors, educational topic!
If you have a cone, like an ice cream cone, and flip it upside down such that the wide opening is flat on the table, then slice a diagonal cross section out of it that is parallel to the outer wall of the cone, you have a parabola. The rounded apex of that parabola is not the focus point for light, so they cut it off and this is the flat we see in the bigger reflectors.
I’m not sure what they figure to be an absolute ideal for the ratio of circumference versus height of the cone, and as we’ve seen reflectors come in a variety of applications, some much more effective than others.
Edit: I’ve read that the depth between F and M (focus point and outer opening) and the diameter of the lens (D to E) should be a 1:1 ratio, what they called “square”. So as deep as it is wide with the point of focus being critical. But of course, like all things, all this is arguable.
I don’t understand it all yet but it certainly is a very interesting subject to explore. I would not consider that picture a representation of the emitter tint. The picture was taken with my phone. The L6 is actually longer than the S70 by roughly 5mm.
Man that L6 really looks nice. The matte finish with the knurled block tube is just hnnng. :heart_eyes:
Beam shots!!!
Yes, I’m going to have to ask. Are any of the parts interchangeably?
I agree that larger reflector doesn’t always mean better throw! I have a eagletac D25C with a 18mm reflector designed for XP-G2 and it throws far better than some 25mm reflectors designed for XM-L, there is lots of math involved in a proper reflector design as Dale has explained, but most manufacturers uses the trial & error method to find the suitable one… There are some manufacturers like maxtoch who uses a computer guided process and expensive equipment to achieve best possible throw.
Good to know the L6 doesn’t produce any hole in the beam, I tried everything with my Jax X6 hunter and the hole is still there… and this is with XHP50 not 70!
That thing is a beauty!! :heart_eyes:
How quick and how hot does it get on turbo?
I bet manufacturers have simulation software where they can play with the parameters