For sure. I think I’ll stop trolling now.
I am of course a big fan of Convoy lights. (L4 is my favorite) Looking forward to seeing this black and tan version.
I’m not quite sure what you’re getting at but I disagree that “lots of body components on Convoy lights are shared”. I think PilotDog summed the situation up pretty well. Simon has one primary manufacturing site he uses to fab his hosts and most of his body components. These components are not shared with other brands that I am aware of. He specifies how everything is made and changes and approves designs and he and his workers assemble all the components into complete Convoy flashlights or host packages. He’s taken on a few more workers and is currently seeking a personal assistant as his company has grown in the last year which made the new factory necessary. During this rapid growth a few QC slips creeped in and CNY made controlling it all nearly impossible yet Simon stayed behind working through the holiday while all of his workers and even the people who were supposed to wire his new factory left. No, he is not making every part by hand but neither is he simply a distributor. He orchestrates the whole operation. If you want to go that route then GM, Ford and Chrysler are also simple distributors…
“Sharing” factories is a very common practice in China, and just because two or more brands have the same components doesn’t make them “copy” or fake.
When a person/company designs a product but hires a third party factory to manufacture the item, it’s called OEM.
But when that person/company can’t design and/or manufacture the product, he hires the factory to do all the work, this is called ODM
Convoy, Thorfire and Jaxman probably share the same factory and their working method is a mix of both. They create the overall concept of the flashlight but the factory refines it, often employing the same technique and dimensions to manufacture certain parts. This is why you can fit the Jax E2 head into a S2+ body.
Simon doesn’t actually own the factory, and same goes with most other manufacturers. Every time a new flashlight brand emerges and they tell you “we have factory”, assume it’s a lie.
jaxman tube and convoy tube look identical. both good brands. are the jaxman drivers and convoy drivers ever the same ?
Most of this is spot on though I am fairly certain Thorfire does not use the same factory. I do know that Convoy and Jaxman are indeed maufactured in the same facility as far as the machined host components. Simon himself told me this. Thorfire I think is a different animal at least in regard to business approach/methods.
Well said Will34.
J-Dub74, I guess you haven’t seen a Thorfire C8. Or maybe you have and you thought it was a Convoy.
I swear there was a guy that looked just like you that said he was done trolling… :-x
Pretty easy to tell the difference really. One says “Convoy”. 
I’ve heard Thorfire makes quite a nice C8. That said, the C8 is not a Convoy design or a Thorfire design. It’s just a classic 18650 thrower made by many companies. Simon made a particularly nice version as have a few other companies with a slight variation here and there on the same basic design. The Convoy C8 was my very first Convoy light and it’s a beauty. The best C8s I’ve seen are XinTD and Convoy but it sounds like Thorfire is making a nice one too. Good for them. I’ll have to pick one up. 
…None of these brands really “make it.” That was my point about the language you choose to use but it seems that I too… didn’t make it.
I think I understand where you’re coming from and I respect your opinion. I have only a novice understanding of the way this type of business works in China but what I have learned over the last year has been very enlightening. Simon (Convoy) is a small player but has done well as an independent businessman. There are more examples but I don’t want to get into a bunch of names/brands. Thorfire is a “company” that from what I can see started as a marketing experiment that has grown and is improving. There is a lot more money behind an operation like that. Simon is one man that started a business on his own that is growing though more slowly than a company can. I mean no discredit to either method but operating a business over there is nothing like starting a business where we live. It’s not an easy task no matter where you are but there are boundaries and social/political obstacles there that are extremely difficult to work under if you don’t fit the standard business mold. This is a budget light forum so you aren’t going to find many manufacturers in this category that have the means to do everything under one roof…
Haha, and people were suggesting that discussion of a slightly longer head for the desert tan S2+ was derailing this thread.
J-dub, any updates on how the tan light is coming together? I am guessing no otherwise you would have mentioned something, but I still need to ask because desert tan 
But can’t the same be said for a great many things? Companies just do the design work for their product. Sometimes they assemble it themselves but many times assembly is just contracted out. Even when they do it in house, the components are usually made by others. Apple does not manufacture iphones, they design them, test them and contract out the assembly to others like foxconn. “Apple” branded CPUs, “retina” screens, none of it is manufactured by apple. Yet we don’t say apple didn’t “make” their latest iphone. I know using apple is an extreme example when we are talking about flashlights, there is a vast difference in complexity, design work and testing between a flashlight and a smartphone. Still, as long as the design (or variation of design for the C8) originated with convoy, I wouldn’t look to say convoy didn’t “make” it.
Thought I’d add my 2c to this derailment…
I’ve always assumed that many of the flashlight brands we see that share some similar hosts (such as Convoy, Crelant, Thorfire, Ultrafire, Uniquefire, SkyRay Etc. Etc.) use a 3rd party “factory” (I.E. machine shop) to make their flashlight bodies.
Some are made with specific designs unique to a specific brand, but since they’re probably not patented (if there is such a thing in China) some of those designs get pirated by the 3rd party factory or copied by yet another unrelated factory or machine shop. Just like we have seen many “generic brand” copies (or clones) of leading brand lights like Olight, Nitecore, Sunwayman Etc. Etc.
In this line of thought the “factory” or machine shop who makes the flashlight hosts for Simon’s Convoy brand, has made some of those designs available to other brands they also supply (whether the designs were originally designed by Simon himself, or designed by someone else and offered to Simon by the machine shop) as well as other unrelated machine shops that have copied the same designs to sell to other brands that they supply.
After all China is the king of copies and counterfeits, it’s what they do.
—
Some “unbranded” Convoy clone hosts:
S2
http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S024588
S2+
http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S024732
S6
http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S023944
S8
http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S024589
M1
http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S024738
Are these made by the same factory/machine shop that supplies Simon for his Convoy brand? Inquiring minds want to know! :question:
What about this color “unbranded” Convoy clone host:
http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S024739
I realy like the color, may be will buy someday.
As far as I know those are just knockoffs made by other facilities and probably wouldn’t be on par in build quality but I cannot say that with absolute certainty. Like you said, “China is the king of copies and counterfeits”. The M1 ish host you listed doesn’t have the same scalloped cutouts for the tail switch and has shinier anodizing based on the picture. Some of them look nearly identical based on the pictures and they’re priced right around the same too. Simon has told me how difficult it is to prevent counterfeiting of his lights. By not actually putting his name on them and making a few subtle changes there probably isn’t much he can do about it. I did send him those links and asked for a response so I’ll let you all know what he says.
Guys…. Convoy is a distributor of flashlights. They neither make nor design them. Presumably Convoy performs assembly, quality control, and distribution. The lights people are linking are made in the same facility and designed by the same manufacturer as those that Convoy puts their name on. Convoy’s lights should be of a higher quality than the unbranded lights because they have a brand reputation to uphold, but as has been seen, this is not always the case. I myself have received a non working Convoy light and I only own 5 of them.
That was a while ago, maybe you should actually stop?
I think we have different definitions of “distributor”. Simon is definitely more than what I define as a distributor, as evidenced by the changes made to the colored S2+, the L2 and L6, and other future products. Many of his lights are not totally original though, as I (and I believe J-Dub, too) have already acknowledged.
The S3, S4, S5, S6, C8 were definitely not Simon’s design, just models he picked up (and in the case of the S3, later modified). The S2, Black S2, S8, M1, and M2 I’m not sure on, but I’m leaning towards not his design either. The colored S2 is Simon’s doing, along with the metal tailcap that was adapted from the Dipper BD line that Simon took over. The L4 and original L2 I’m going to assume are original to Simon because I have never seen copies of them anywhere. The new L2 and L6 we know for sure are brand new, original designs because we (BLF) have been a part of the design process.
I suppose you could argue that Convoy had it’s roots as a simple rebadge distributor, but it isn’t that simple any more.
Obviously evidence won’t change your mind though, so I’ll bow out.
Look, I used to think Convoy actually made the things, and it became pretty evident after I mentioned something that other folks think so too, or think that any light that shares parts with a Convoy is a “knockoff” which isn’t remotely the case….
It may be the case that some colors or possibly even models are presently exclusive to Convoy.
You really think I’m the one who’s deluded here? I am not the one championing the farce…
I have nothing more to say on the matter… have to get back to putting chips in a barrel. I do think my comments provoked a worthwhile conversation though.
With all due respect, I don’t think anyone cares about it but you. The only thing most everyone wants to know is, when the desert tan S2+ will be available.
Here is an interesting thread…