The 219C handles a single cell FET driver no problem, it does pull 8 amps or so but it works just fine. My EDC had one and now it has an XP-G3 and is about to get another 219C, all of which have pulled around 8 amps with a high drain cell. No deaths or issues.
That said the throw from the 219C with the dome on is not all that impressive for throw. Never been able to dedome one nor do I care to try again.
These latest gen LED’s do not have bond wires due to the die itself being “flipped upside down” to recycle more energy in some form (only scanned the thread that talked about it). I wounder if this is why the latest gen emitters do not throw as well or see a large improvement when dedomed.
I EDC two lights, one a single emitter and the other a quad… both are 219C lights running FET drivers. (come to think of it, I also have a solid copper MBI HF on my keychain with Nichia 219B Hi CRI emitter and the DQG Ti Spy [I think it is] as well, if it doesn’t have a 219C it needs one!)
Then again, I’m not looking for throw from these two lights as normal EDC use FOR ME does not lean towards throw all that heavily. An X6 triple or the P30 or MH20GT gets carried a lot of times as an accessory to my normal EDC lights.
In a thrower I build with the XP-G2 S2 0D or XP-L HI primarily, only sometimes using a Buck driver and two cells for the XP-G2 to get up towards 5.5A. The most throw I’ve obtained has been just shy of a mile at 645Kcd (as best I can recall) using a de-domed XM-L2 in an Intimidator.
My Nitecore MH20GT now has a 219C in it and throw is still quite surprising easily illuminating out past 100yds and doing well to 200 in a lot of cases, which is fine with me as I typically really use throw inside of 400 yds. The thing that seems to me to stand out is relevance, each of us uses a light for a different end purpose and has different requirements, so we look for a build that suits our needs. The numbers end up being of less consequence in most cases, end result being the target for real world usage. I personally use a light pretty much daily, multiple times a day in a lot of cases, and my Ti/Cu Quad EDC serves that purpose quite well. Once a week I use the throwers, walking the trash down to the road for Friday morning pick-up.
Just last night we ate supper by the light of my BTU Shocker with 9V MT-G2’s, power was out for over an hour and level 4 of 7 worked for us really well with the light doing ceiling bounce.
Some people really love the mathematics and formula’s aspects of flashlights, some people are all about the builds. Yet others use these lights in an 8-10 hour work day each and every day. To each his/her own…
The measured numbers which I linked are not theory. They were actually measured and are reproduce-able under the same conditions (has been shown time and time again).
Does it really make such a difference for you in practice when a light throws 10-20% less? That’s not a very large difference.
Concerning djozz’s post that you linked to: he de-domed a Nichia 219C 80CRI and it was only a partial de-dome. You would of course use a 70CRI 219C with 5700K (higher BIN) to get the highest possible numbers. You would also need to find a way to de-dome them chemically.
Have you tried the XP-G2 S3 3D from intl outdoor? I used one a year ago and it was as expected @ regulated 5A.
The last 10 pieces of S3 3D I got from intl-outdoor were labeled S4 3D and are the new production type, it seems that Hank started a new reel on those. I have used one in a build and it seems to tnrow a bit less (about 10) with nicer tint. That 10 seems to be due to a slightly larger die.
I’m not unhappy either, especially because the tint is a bit better, slightly less green, slightly more red.
A very uncomparable comparison with a Supfire F5 (different lens diameter) modded with an old type XP-G2 S4 2B suggests 20% less throw (compensated for the lens diameter). I accept that directly because of the great dedomed tint.
Yes it makes a big deal to me when my normally 500 kcd light throws 20 or more % less. 100kcd + less throw… I can’t stand that fact or adopt cause instead of better emitters in 2016 and now 2017 from Cree we got lower performing ones… Even emitters from 2014 were better than this new stuff
Yes I did try XP-G2 S3 3D from IO when they were available and they are about 10 or more% less performers than old XP-G2 S2 1A or old XP-G2 S3 2B(which I luckily have in my stock). I don’t like de-domed tint also. But this is imo not general
But yes old XP-G2 S3 3D is much better emitter than any new production type of G2 emitters, and I would rather have that emitter than new type XP-G2 S4 2B. Good luck in finding it cause you’ll need it :laughing: And if you find good old ones PM me I’ll buy them together with you.
P.S.
You could also find a way to chemically de dome 70CRI 219C with 5700K and tell us… :+1:
I will listen you… Don’t think I am not listening you
Yes I would also know how to control turbo mod on fet driver. No problem when person who knows(like most BLF members here) use modded stuff but problems occurs when you sell such lights to general people who will say: “Oh yes it really is bright for minute or two I thought it can work like that for hours, Oh it is really hot, and then they call you after few month crying that their emitter blurred or died
That why I think that 4-5A draw for single cell fet light is more than enough and I can tell from mine experience that that kind of lights don’t die even when used by flashlight molesters I have to deal with.
What I was asking is if it actually makes a noticeable difference when you use it outside. In the end that is the only thing that matters. 10% is very difficult for the human eye to detect.
Could you not replace the C8 with something like a Fenix TK-35? It’s only a little bit bigger, but has 2 cells and a buck driver. With a resistor mod 4A should be possible and thus the Osram Black Flat or maybe even a “big” XP-G2 with higher currents. The old TK-35 with XM-L(1) can be had for very low prices these days (used for maybe 35:money_mouth_face:. You would definitely get longer runtimes without reduction in brightness.
If I ever see something regarding the de-doming of Nichia & Osram I will try to remember to post it here. I don’t have any problem with sharing all the information. I can’t justify spending money on this myself because I don’t really have much to gain from it.
EDIT: I thought I read C8, but what light are you actually putting your LEDs into? Why must it be single cell?
While I like to think I can detect more, the fact is that in a blind test (aka, don’t have 2 lights side by side to see the difference) I can not tell the difference in 25% change in lumens and in some cases even more.
For example my EDC puts out ~800 lumens on high with the 7135’s regulating current. On turbo it puts out around ~1200 lumens with the FET. Now that is a 50% change in output but to the eye it hardly looks brighter, maybe a 10% difference is noticeable.
Due to this I basically never use turbo, it uses over 2 times the power but gives me very little real world benefit. Same reason I generally use GA’s instead of 30Q’s. The extra from the 30q’s is simply lost in the real world even if it makes a big difference on the meter.
All that said I can understand where luminarium is coming from. People buy lights based on specs alone in most cases, so the specs are what matters and not real world performance. Thus that is what he needs to focus on to sell lights. Sad but it is the world we live in and I would do the same thing.
I mean no one would buy the SRK’s I built since they “only had 4,000 lumens” when the stock versions were advertised as having 10,000 lumens. :confounded:
When I compare lights indoors or in enclosed areas the difference between 800 and 1200 seem not much. But outside it seems more noticeable. Have you observed this to be true for you?
So TA, you carry a .22? I mean, if you can shoot it’ll do the same job as a .45, who needs all the extra weight and expense?
Edit: In a controlled consistent environment, say walking to the car in the same parking garage every evening, then more lumens probably doesn’t matter. But get out there were all the controls are out the window and more rules. Shine your silly 800 lumen light down the caves at Carlsbad, or across the Grand Canyon… oh, sorry, forgot, 800 won’t do that. Time and place, the situation at hand, is all important in determining what works and what falls short.
Perhaps you can’t really see the difference between 800 and 1200 lumens. If you have to use the light tactically, are you happy with 800? Less even because your cells are low? Or do you want 2000? Do you carry 4 rounds in your Glock, because 10 weigh more and you probably won’t ever need more than 4 anyway? Yeah, I think we know how that goes. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. More lumens.
It is a bit more noticable outside but even then it is not all that noticable by me or anyone else I have showed it to. They all think it has 2 turbo modes lol.
I carry select fire weapon that allows for the right tool for the task.
That is why I both worked on and use the Texas Avenger drivers. It allows me to have a regulated high output mode of ~800 lumens that doesn’t get all that warm and gives me a long battery life while still having that 1200 lumens in reserve if I want it, I just rarely need or want it.
Battery life is also an important factor in an EDC, when turbo will drain the cells in a matter of 10 minutes vs about 1.5 hours in high, well I think the 1.5 hours in high is well worth the minor difference in visible light.
As far as more lumens, I have some triples with 2500+ lumens that I have tried carrying and while they work great you really have to use turbo to get a usable amount of light further then 20m or so (and yu then blind yourself to see all that much further with the spill). The issue with that is heat and battery life on turbo are both dismal. Great for short bursts but I find I either need my EDC for a few seconds at a time or for long periods. The triples just don’t do well at long periods of use at ranges past a few feet.
That said there are times when I prefer a triple, if I know I will be dealing with close ranges then that is what I want.
I simply find that a high CRI single emitter with a TA driver to be the most versatile EDC I have found yet. It does everything well but nothing great, a true jack of all trades light, exactly what I want in an EDC where I never know what I will need it for.
Same reason I have moved to carrying a 9mm over a .45. I was a hardcore .45 guy for years but after seeing various ammo tests along with really thinking about things I realized I was better off with 17-19 rounds of 9mm vs 12-14 rounds on .45, plus the more compact size and weight savings is nice for concealed carry.
I clearly see 10-20% difference maybe because I really focus on distant targets, and use rifle scope in most situations. You know; I am a hunter and I sell light to hunters(light abusers).
C8? Yes I did mod few of them for friends + tons of Jacob A60(I really miss that light) and similar single cell lights(UF’s) for sale but I am not fan of reflector lights.
Yes plenty of people prefer reflector based lights and I prefer aspherical builds for my hunting light(and general) configurations(50mm mostly: B158, UF1503, Dereelights DBS Nightmasters, Tiablos). Beauty of this is that I can see even tiniest emitter imperfections without any special tools. I just watch beam projection in full focus… And why not 2x cell buck driver like lets say in Dereelight Nightmaster lights? I don’t find that drivers durable(I had plenty of Deree driver fails within gun recoil) + I must use button top batteries and I really like battery in their original unprotected flat top state like samsung 30q or similar, + light is heavier and bit ugly imo.
Why single cell FET driver? I’ll give example of B158 old S4 2B modded light… More than enough runtime on turbo for most hunting situations in mine hunting environment, and if you want more turbo(turbo means 340kcd and more than 800m of throw) reload the cell after 10-15 minutes
But also no problem for longer vehicle driven scans cause medium mode is still strong and at 2.2A draw enough for hour or so on 200kcd scanning(enough to 500m), and there is low mode for walking or game tracking (1A or so which can work for hours).
In mine maybe silly redneck head light has to be high intensity but with usable lux and acceptable lumen performer in ass small package possible.
And tendency is different these days (Bigger heads, multi-cell, multi-emitter, multi-head lights).
And that is ok… But Cree bring me good old G2 S4 2B back! :smiling_imp:
Ok, I understand.
Have you ever potted a driver?
You could pot a buck driver for robustness and use two 18350s. Mtn electronics has a configurable buck driver with low voltage protection. This way you could use the Osram Black Flat with perfectly stable output. Runtime would be 5Wh/15W = 0.33h = 20min. Throw will be slightly better if you select the best emitter from maybe 5.
The downside to this would be higher cost and the spot will be roughly half as big.
If you can spare even more money, you could use a collar (I may have found a company that makes them, I will contact them soon). A collar will double your Candela values. This way you could use a lens with smaller diameter (lets say 30mm) and get bigger spot like with XP-G2.
Next idea:
Have you ever used pre collimators? This way you could use an Osram Square Gen3 with Dome, but with pre-collimator and a ~70mm lens. It could theoretically work and you could keep your single cell configuration.
.
…but Wavien,that has the patents of those collars,does not sell,as I have read in the other forum,when there was many posts about some super duper aspherical flashlights with huge intensity and collars of course,with top 1,3Mcd.
They used to sell them. Now they’ve gone dark for some reason.
You can still just buy a spherical half dome reflector and it will do the same job, although it might cost a lot more if you need it custom.
No… I don’t think you understand… This is not only hobby for me but I thought that you’ll figure that. I am selling my builds.
- So you can’t pick 1 of 5 emitter (although with new ones 1 of 100 would not help) cause you are on loss. With old XP-G2 S4 2B pick any emitter you want and performance is there
- Potting buck driver. I’ve been there with Dereelights(since 2007-2014) and nothing so I switched to nanjgs and after that Djozz fet and problems gone away.
I don’t want any battery that is hard to get on my market 18350(nobody ever heard about that). Most of them did not even heard about 18650 which is unbeatable standard(battery size and performance) imho.
- I do my own “Djozz FET” 3$ drivers (150 so far and 1 failure only by mine mistake).
This are mine drivers and yes they are potted with fujik although they would probably withstand recoil without potting. They are one cheap thick and robust drivers… Thanks Djozz
Here are finished before potting with fujik:
- I am using precoolimator lenses and my beam has 100% bigger surface in full focus position without losing lux values. (Vinz Germany “patentented” that and we discussed a lot about that here and on CPF). Downside of this is less lumens in flood mode (less but still enough)
- Wavien copyen stole patent from our BLF member MEM (MEM invented it and he calls it “RA” = “Wavien collar”) and I talked a lot about that with him(when he was active member) and the main thing with RA is that is tricky to fit and you loose flood mode also you can’t fit precoolimator lenses… So you guessed right; I don’t want it even for free
If you can get me good old types of XP-G2 emitters PM me and I’ll take anything from S2 to S4 :+1:
Those drivers look like 105c’s that have been stripped and an FET added?
A bit old school don’t you think? Why not try one of the more modern designs, they cost about the same but are a lot more stable and would even offer more output power. Plus you could use the newer firmware available today such as bistro.
