What amazes me most about the zebralight is the super long runtime capability. Wait 'til you see the 0.01lm mode :)
147 hours on the L10 @ 0.09lms vs 2 months on the ZL SC52 @ 0.06lms.
Even dividing it by the price ratio, the ZL still seems incredible.
Yeah, for runtime ZL can’t be beat. I use my SC52 as a night light at 0.34 lm, and it lasts a couple months per charge even when I leave it running for several hours each night. At my old place, the 0.06 lm mode was sufficient as a night light, and I never found out how long it’d go between charges because I never had to charge it. I fully believe it would last 6 months or more at 8 hours per night, as its spec suggests.
My i3s with a 10440 moonlight seems just right to me, enough to read if close, keep from stumbling walking in the dark.
Interesting…. when we compared pics, I thought all your L modes looked as off as mine vs the L10 (course we know from SB how volatile L10s are though).
Just ran a side-by-side sub-lumen runtime test among my “brighter” sub-lumen lights on AAAAs…… the SC52s “0.34” mode ran the longest, but in terms of lumen-hrs (lumens x hrs) of efficiency, it was dead last out the group :quest:
Yeah, I figured the discrepancy was a matter of different manufacturers using different lumen scales.
BTW, what are the lights in your picture, and how much light does each claim to be emitting?
Do I see two Eagletac D25A units in the middle? I’ve been very tempted by the D25A Ti Nichia 2014 model, but I’m debating if it’s worthwhile for me. It’s got a nice clip and pretty titanium body, but otherwise the L3 L10-219 seems to me like a better product (and costs 1/3rd as much).
(edit: Actually, I see on CPF that you’ve got the 2012 and 2014 versions, no? … and the 2014 one has PWM on moon mode? I’m pretty sensitive to PWM even at 4.5 kHz; do you find it problematic? I’m hoping the moon mode will be similar to the ZL 0.34lm or L10 0.09lm mode, and I’m a little worried about not having moon and low (~2.5lm) in the same mode group, since those are the two I use most)
Found someone else on CPF with similar lights as I that could compare beam shots and who agreed the ZL 0.34/2.7 was probably <0.10/1.5, so I’m comfortable my sample is normal. I’m sure most don’t care, but I use a true 0.3/3 lms about 40/40% of the time and so the SC52 went on the shelf as a disappoint for me. I think lumen scale difference is something else though - ZL tends to be 25-30% more liberal than my other lights, and that reconciles with Selfbuilt’s tests, but all the lower modes of the SC52 are off by multiples.
In any case, re: D25As, yes that a ’12 NW XML, and ’14 N219B. The sub-lumen circuits in the D25As are not the greatest - although it tested more efficient than my SC52, it’s not as efficient as my Quarks. The ML mode doesn’t regulate as well as 47/ZL, and will start out at 0.5 lms on 1.6V Alks, and drop to 0.25(XML)/0.15(N219) at average Eneloop voltages (1.25v) - you may not like them if you like SC52/L10 dim. It’s not true PWM, as the emitter never truly turns off, but has this oscillation in the beam where waving a finger in front of the beam can show a strobe-like effect. Interestingly, I cannot visually detect it reflections, as I can normally do with any frequency true PWM… about the only time PWM really bothers me. Finally, the PWM-effect only kicks in at lower voltages, and this varies by unit (I have 4 in total).
I do like D25As though, it’s a handsome, elegant light with a good UI, and the beam on the N219 has an especially good tint (of course) and beam profile (throw/flood) for me. The 0.15 ML is a bit low for my preferences, and so mostly use mine with ML programmed off (2.5/13/60/100 lms) on an Eneloop. The D25s do not fully support higher voltage cells so I stick to Eneloops for them.
Thanks. It’d be nice if every vendor had consistent and accurate specs… especially if they included a measure of both average output and variability.
I’ve noticed a PWM-like effect on my SC52 in its L1 mode, but not in any other modes. Also, a more subtle PWM-like effect on my RRT01. In both cases, it oscillates between two levels rather than actually strobing. I find that it doesn’t bother me like normal PWM does. The only true PWM light I have which doesn’t bug me is my XinTD C8 V4, which strobes at 18 kHz.
It sounds like the D25A Ti 2014 isn’t perfect, but it’s still very nice. I’ll probably get one if they’re ever in stock again. The clip and titanium body make it physically a nice upgrade for EDC, and its mode selection should be almost as nice even if it’s not ideal.
As for my ideal EDC light, I think it would…
- Have a body and clip like the D25A (but perhaps with Convoy-like square knurling).
- Have the brightness levels and runtimes of a Zebralight.
- Use 1xAA or 1x14500, with consistent output on both (plus Li-Ion “turbo”) like a Zebralight.
- Automatically dim based on its internal temperature rather than a timer.
- Have the beam and tint of the L3 L10-219, though perhaps even floodier with a frosted lens. (even better, give it a large-ish multi-die emitter like MT-G2 with wide-spectrum output so it’ll render color even more strikingly than a 100CRI light source… wide spectrum beats high CRI, IMO)
- Come in brass, titanium alloy, gold and rainbow titanium nitride (SS only?), and a wide variety of colors of Type III anodized aluminum (black, natural dark grey, chocolate brown, deep purple, dark blue, blood red, pink, magenta, turquoise green, hazard orange, …).
- Have a ZL-like (but silent and GitD) electronic button on its tail (tricky, but should be possible) and ZL-like UI.
- UI mod: Put the D25A’s full set of blinky modes into the triple-click strobe group used by recent ZL products. Ideally, also make one strobe mode a true motion-freezing strobe with variable speed selected by holding the button during that mode.
- UI mod: Use click, click+hold to cycle through all sub-levels… and if invoked that way from off, cycle through all non-blinking levels from lowest to highest.
- UI mod: If turned off from beacon mode (blink at a sub-lumen level every couple seconds), toggle whether it will always be in that mode while “off”.
- UI mod: include one mode mode between 0.34lm and ~3lm.
- Be extremely waterproof.
- Allow disassembly relatively easily, for things like changing the lens O-ring or maybe even doing emitter swaps.
- Have a blank spot for laser engraving; no logo except on the tail button. Perhaps include engraving as an option when ordered from its manufacturer.
- Not have any head-loose/head-tight nonsense; just stay tightened during use.
Okay, enough off-topic wishlisting for now. Oops.
Well that’s some list…. good luck with that! I’m waiting for the Armytek Smart A1 to come out. Until then, this baby is keeping me quite happy.
While the cycling through strobes is a PITA, it has one of my all time favorite UI pseudo features ever - a momentary maximum from any lower mode that works just like car high beam flashers. No more twist/short-press/wait/long-press/stand on one foot/hop BS… just the low I want and instantaneous/momentary max when I need it.
Haha, yeah. I highly doubt I’ll ever find a light which lives up to my ideal. 
Hopefully the D25A Ti N219 will keep me happy for a while though.
In any case, for the original poster, there are definitely lower firefly modes than the three lights in the topic. For the absolute lowest low ever (and any level between that and ~500lm), the JETBeam RRT01 should tickle your just-barely-glowing needs. It can go so low that, even if I aim it directly at my fully-night-adjusted eye from 5mm away, I can still barely tell it’s on. And I’m pretty photosensitive. Recent Zebralights also have some rather low modes (ZL’s “0.06lm” and “0.01lm” are both quite a bit dimmer than the L3 L10’s “0.09lm”), and super-long runtime. No easy way to switch quickly between sub-lumen ZL modes though.
Could an AA Zebralight replace both my Tank007 E09 and Convoy S5 (4*7135)?? I need those runtimes, but 500 lumens might not be enough…
I keep mine on 0.06lms and definitely have the reprogramming down pat. Once you spend 10secs and reprogamme it for a situation, it usually doesn't have to change again 'til the next situation.
500lms is prob the max you'd squeeze out of a 14500/AA light, I'd think. Unless you were looking to spend on a larger light.
Replace a Tank007 E09? Probably not. Even the smallest Zebralight is too big. If the size is okay though, then yes, definitely.
Replace a Convoy S5? Not really. The smaller units are only able to do 500lm for a single minute before stepping down to 280, and even then, the runtimes are relatively short compared to a 1x18650 battery. You’d need an 18650 Zebralight if you want it to compete with other 18650 lights. If you only need short bright bursts though, and normally stick to much lower levels, a 1x14500 Zebralight could work. The Convoy still has a more blended beam pattern though, and possibly a better tint (depending on your taste).
There might still be some SC600 or SC600 mkII units on a good sale if you look hard enough, but personally I find those to be too big for most of my purposes. It might make a nice bike handlebar light, but I already have enough Convoys to cover that need.
As ToyK said, if its small enough or bright enough sure, but no way to guess without knowing if its small enough or bright enough. 
Since I got my Olight i3s nothing else has spent a day in my pocket. I’ll use one of my SK68 clones with a 14500 from time to time, but I’ve have 100% stopped carrying one in my pocket.
OTOH I don’t like a bunch of not always used junk in my pockets, so I only have minimum keys on my keyring, and the lesser driven cars have there keys on hooks near the door.
OTOOH I may be willing to go one size larger for a light in my tool bag, or more likely lights, or still more likely none in the toolbag all the time with whatever I think I may need added per trip.
I’ve posted this elsewhere, but… FWIW, a size reference. There are a couple Convoys and a SC52, and the ATP i3 is pretty close to the size of the Tank007 E09.
(click for a bigger version)
Sorry about the lens distortion near the edges.
When I’m out of the house, I usually have my DQG Tiny AAA IV (on my keychain), L3 L10-219 (purse pocket), H52 (clipped to outside of purse), and CNQG brass light (another purse pocket… I rarely need it, but it’s pretty). If I’m biking, the Convoy S7 goes on the handlebars. If I think I’ll be wanting to see far away (or wanting to impress someone), one of the two bigger lights might be included too.
Thanks, ToyKeeper. I don’t seem to hear as much about the 18650 ZLs, it seems like their AA lines are more popular.
Interesting thread. I’m looking for an aa light. I’m not hat fussed by the d25a, though I know it is very popular. The L10 is appealing but the twisty interface puts me off. An SC52 would be nice but I don’t need two zebralights, and it seems silly to spend so much on a light I don’t plan to use very often. UF-T20 might be good if it was modded. S15 is a possibility, but I already have an S10.
Chloe, as far as beam pattern goes, I’ve found that DC-Fix can give lights a really nice floody pattern. I put some SC52 beam shots up, comparing the normal beam to a diffused beam:
I mention it because you seem to enjoy the Preon P0’s flood beam, and have shown interest in other floody lights.
The best light I’ve found for “replace both a Convoy S and a keychain light” is probably my CNQG brass light. It’s about as small as you can get for a 1x18650. Not exactly keychain material though… Bright or small — pick one.
gregs656, I didn’t like twisties at first. I’ve gotten a lot more fond of them though, and less fond of clickies. Part of the reason is because twisties are silent. Another reason is that it works more easily with a handshake grip instead of an overhand or cigar grip. The SC52 gets around that with its side button, but ZL’s button designs have gotten so stiff and recessed lately that they’re hard to activate sometimes (especially with long nails). … which brings up another twisty benefit — no accidental activation in a pocket. They also seem easier to waterproof, and less likely to wear out over time. OTOH, electronic clickies like Zebralight allow a richer UI.
I’m not sure what I think about combo twist/click UIs like the D25A has. I ordered one though, Ti 2014 model with Nichia 219, and I should be able to say more after it arrives. (currently waiting for new stock, ETA unknown)
I tried the eagletac and I don’t think the UI is for me. I also didn’t find the group changing very intuitive. I am very fond of my SC600 (mk2 l2) - but I think having a SC52 as well would be overkill, bearing I mind that the vast majority of the time I use my SC600 is under 100 lumen.
Likewise I am a real fan of my S10, but the S15 wouldn’t really provide me with anything different. A potential benefit is the fact I could use the same diffuser on both.
The more I think about it the more I lean toward the L10-219., though the solarforce z2 is also tempting!
Yes, if you have a SC600, the SC52 would be redundant. I went the other way with that and used my SC52 as an excuse not to get a SC600. The longer runtimes would be nice, but it didn’t seem like it would be worth the extra size and weird clip.
I wish, most of the USA, and where I happen to live the mail is not delivered to your house, but to a central “box” half a block away.
OTOH nothing livens up an afternoon like releasing the hounds on a trespasser.