How does the sub lumen mode compare between the P0 and the L10 XP-G2 or I3s? I have the L10 and I3s and I think the beam is too bright. I know the P0 is more of a flood, but if the brightness is more like the spill of the L10 or I3s I think it will be suitable for me.
Hmm, I don’t have the other two (ToyKeeper has both I think) but I was surprised to see Preon P0 is sub-lumen. Maybe it is the cool white, or my eyes, but it feels brighter than what I expect from firefly. It is pure flood, so makes a nice ambient light, but I get a blind spot looking straight into the emitter on low setting. I found it too bright for dark adapted eyes unless I pointed it away/behind me.
The Preon P0 lumen modes are @ .25 and 25 lumens.
ETA: corrected lumens
Zebralights have the lowest low that I've seen.
Your L0 might be the three mode model without the firefly.
NiteEye 10 is the lowest I’ve seen….I mean this thing is low low low…prob in the thousandth of a lumen once night vision is achieved.
Maybe their site is wrong? Says 0.24 lumen:
http://www.foursevens.com/product_info.php?products_id=3140
Maybe older versions are 2.5. I don’t know, but I just looked the Foursevens site and it is listed at 0.24.
L0? Ramblings if you meant L10 mine is for sure a four mode.
I will look into the suggestions. Thanks.
I don’t have the Preon P0 or Olight i3s, just the L3 L10.
Regardless, you may find that sub-lumen modes are not consistent between units. Selfbuilt recently did a review showing the variation if you want some idea what to expect. Here’s the money shot, four L3 L10 lights on firefly:
In any case, for a really low low, Zebralights have rather low modes available (their 0.06lm mode is particularly nice), and the JETbeam RRT01 generally goes down too low to see at all (and smoothly adjusts to any level). Almost everything else on the market has only brighter sub-lumen modes.
I had my decimal in the wrong place… 
should be @ .25 Thank you Chloe. H)
Interesting, I wonder where my L10 is on the L10 sub lumen range.
Argh, I could not tolerate such variation between units. >.< Has a similar test been performed with Zebralights?
Not that I’m aware of. But selfbuilt has tested multiple Zebralights at different times, and he usually makes a remark about the levels measuring very close to what the specs say. It might be worth browsing all his ZL reviews, or the reviews from anyone else who has both a lightbox and a few Zebralights.
I can at least say that all three of my L3 L10 units are far more consistent with each other than the ones selfbuilt got, and my three Zebralights also seem to be very close to their specs. Maybe I got lucky though.
What amazes me most about the zebralight is the super long runtime capability. Wait 'til you see the 0.01lm mode :)
147 hours on the L10 @ 0.09lms vs 2 months on the ZL SC52 @ 0.06lms.
Even dividing it by the price ratio, the ZL still seems incredible.
Yeah, for runtime ZL can’t be beat. I use my SC52 as a night light at 0.34 lm, and it lasts a couple months per charge even when I leave it running for several hours each night. At my old place, the 0.06 lm mode was sufficient as a night light, and I never found out how long it’d go between charges because I never had to charge it. I fully believe it would last 6 months or more at 8 hours per night, as its spec suggests.
My i3s with a 10440 moonlight seems just right to me, enough to read if close, keep from stumbling walking in the dark.
Interesting…. when we compared pics, I thought all your L modes looked as off as mine vs the L10 (course we know from SB how volatile L10s are though).
Just ran a side-by-side sub-lumen runtime test among my “brighter” sub-lumen lights on AAAAs…… the SC52s “0.34” mode ran the longest, but in terms of lumen-hrs (lumens x hrs) of efficiency, it was dead last out the group :quest:
Yeah, I figured the discrepancy was a matter of different manufacturers using different lumen scales.
BTW, what are the lights in your picture, and how much light does each claim to be emitting?
Do I see two Eagletac D25A units in the middle? I’ve been very tempted by the D25A Ti Nichia 2014 model, but I’m debating if it’s worthwhile for me. It’s got a nice clip and pretty titanium body, but otherwise the L3 L10-219 seems to me like a better product (and costs 1/3rd as much).
(edit: Actually, I see on CPF that you’ve got the 2012 and 2014 versions, no? … and the 2014 one has PWM on moon mode? I’m pretty sensitive to PWM even at 4.5 kHz; do you find it problematic? I’m hoping the moon mode will be similar to the ZL 0.34lm or L10 0.09lm mode, and I’m a little worried about not having moon and low (~2.5lm) in the same mode group, since those are the two I use most)
Found someone else on CPF with similar lights as I that could compare beam shots and who agreed the ZL 0.34/2.7 was probably <0.10/1.5, so I’m comfortable my sample is normal. I’m sure most don’t care, but I use a true 0.3/3 lms about 40/40% of the time and so the SC52 went on the shelf as a disappoint for me. I think lumen scale difference is something else though - ZL tends to be 25-30% more liberal than my other lights, and that reconciles with Selfbuilt’s tests, but all the lower modes of the SC52 are off by multiples.
In any case, re: D25As, yes that a ’12 NW XML, and ’14 N219B. The sub-lumen circuits in the D25As are not the greatest - although it tested more efficient than my SC52, it’s not as efficient as my Quarks. The ML mode doesn’t regulate as well as 47/ZL, and will start out at 0.5 lms on 1.6V Alks, and drop to 0.25(XML)/0.15(N219) at average Eneloop voltages (1.25v) - you may not like them if you like SC52/L10 dim. It’s not true PWM, as the emitter never truly turns off, but has this oscillation in the beam where waving a finger in front of the beam can show a strobe-like effect. Interestingly, I cannot visually detect it reflections, as I can normally do with any frequency true PWM… about the only time PWM really bothers me. Finally, the PWM-effect only kicks in at lower voltages, and this varies by unit (I have 4 in total).
I do like D25As though, it’s a handsome, elegant light with a good UI, and the beam on the N219 has an especially good tint (of course) and beam profile (throw/flood) for me. The 0.15 ML is a bit low for my preferences, and so mostly use mine with ML programmed off (2.5/13/60/100 lms) on an Eneloop. The D25s do not fully support higher voltage cells so I stick to Eneloops for them.
Thanks. It’d be nice if every vendor had consistent and accurate specs… especially if they included a measure of both average output and variability.
I’ve noticed a PWM-like effect on my SC52 in its L1 mode, but not in any other modes. Also, a more subtle PWM-like effect on my RRT01. In both cases, it oscillates between two levels rather than actually strobing. I find that it doesn’t bother me like normal PWM does. The only true PWM light I have which doesn’t bug me is my XinTD C8 V4, which strobes at 18 kHz.
It sounds like the D25A Ti 2014 isn’t perfect, but it’s still very nice. I’ll probably get one if they’re ever in stock again. The clip and titanium body make it physically a nice upgrade for EDC, and its mode selection should be almost as nice even if it’s not ideal.
As for my ideal EDC light, I think it would…
- Have a body and clip like the D25A (but perhaps with Convoy-like square knurling).
- Have the brightness levels and runtimes of a Zebralight.
- Use 1xAA or 1x14500, with consistent output on both (plus Li-Ion “turbo”) like a Zebralight.
- Automatically dim based on its internal temperature rather than a timer.
- Have the beam and tint of the L3 L10-219, though perhaps even floodier with a frosted lens. (even better, give it a large-ish multi-die emitter like MT-G2 with wide-spectrum output so it’ll render color even more strikingly than a 100CRI light source… wide spectrum beats high CRI, IMO)
- Come in brass, titanium alloy, gold and rainbow titanium nitride (SS only?), and a wide variety of colors of Type III anodized aluminum (black, natural dark grey, chocolate brown, deep purple, dark blue, blood red, pink, magenta, turquoise green, hazard orange, …).
- Have a ZL-like (but silent and GitD) electronic button on its tail (tricky, but should be possible) and ZL-like UI.
- UI mod: Put the D25A’s full set of blinky modes into the triple-click strobe group used by recent ZL products. Ideally, also make one strobe mode a true motion-freezing strobe with variable speed selected by holding the button during that mode.
- UI mod: Use click, click+hold to cycle through all sub-levels… and if invoked that way from off, cycle through all non-blinking levels from lowest to highest.
- UI mod: If turned off from beacon mode (blink at a sub-lumen level every couple seconds), toggle whether it will always be in that mode while “off”.
- UI mod: include one mode mode between 0.34lm and ~3lm.
- Be extremely waterproof.
- Allow disassembly relatively easily, for things like changing the lens O-ring or maybe even doing emitter swaps.
- Have a blank spot for laser engraving; no logo except on the tail button. Perhaps include engraving as an option when ordered from its manufacturer.
- Not have any head-loose/head-tight nonsense; just stay tightened during use.
Okay, enough off-topic wishlisting for now. Oops.
Well that’s some list…. good luck with that! I’m waiting for the Armytek Smart A1 to come out. Until then, this baby is keeping me quite happy.
While the cycling through strobes is a PITA, it has one of my all time favorite UI pseudo features ever - a momentary maximum from any lower mode that works just like car high beam flashers. No more twist/short-press/wait/long-press/stand on one foot/hop BS… just the low I want and instantaneous/momentary max when I need it.