GB Interest ///OFFICIALLY CLOSED 11/8 @ 9pm CST/Maxtoch M24 Sniper with XP-L HI /// 250K lux @ 4.3 Amps!!!

BLF Special Edition Products
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Thanks Dale. I've done that technique with loosening/tightening the bezel to adjust, and I tried it, but didn't get any noticeable effect with the M12. I haven't done tweaking on a true thrower with de-domed LED's in quite a while, and did only one recent XPL HI in an X6, I've being doing more small lights for general use (w/domes), or multi-LED lights. Actually I've been frustrated with de-domed throwers in the past and is the main reason I've stopped, plus with these new XM-L2's that can't get high amps, every time you do a thrower, you roll the dice, more so now than before.

The M12 has the reflector type with the big flat backside, and using the 26 mm MCPCB and 20 AWG wire, and the fact you have to work with the iron on the MCPCB down into the head, it's not a good setup to easily get the LED into the reflector more. That's where the M24 will have some advantages because with a buck driver, you don't need such heavy wires, and they may have more options.

Those are real good points bout the black hole - I do notice at 5m there seems to be a hotter spot in the center beam, and that's what I used to get the 205 kcd reading. I just think it's out of focus mainly because the center beam isn't crisply defined - fuzzy edges. Now I really dunno for sure - I'm not confident at all in my ability to judge this stuff, and also inexperienced with the XPL HI.

Another weird thing is the max I could get (measure) was 4.5A at the tail, and actually I got higher output using a 26700 cell. It's behaving like there's not good contact for the cell. The M12 is a bit unusual:

  • it doesn't use a driver spring, rather a brass button, but I soldered the button to the driver in my earlier modding of the light
  • it's designed to unscrew the body at the batt+ side, not the tailcap end, making it more difficult to get a good tail amp reading
  • it seems designed to handle the longer 26700 cell, so high powered 18650's are loose and rattle, and behave like they are losing some power
  • I tried an HG2 cell with 2 magnets on the batt- end, and it did a little worse than the 26700.

Also, I measured the 205 kcd with using the 26700, and I also measured lumens with the same cell, and got this:

  • lumens: 1214 @start, 1193 @30 secs

So, there's something probably wrong there because the BLF X6 I did with the same XPL HI I got: 5.1A, and 1600 @start, 1500 @30 secs.

I wouldn't think 5.1A to 4.5A would drop this much lumens, but maybe. For this M12, I think I should get rid of the brass button on the driver contact and replace it with a good bypass'd spring - that should help with the battery issues I'm thinking. The FET driver is the older style BLF version with the original good Vishay 70N02 FET.

I really do like this 2B tint in a thrower - looks very white to me: no blues.

The good thing for the M24 potential is my throw # is probably lower - depends on measuring technique and final actual amps to the LED.

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Nice work Tom,
I suspect the contacts are holding you back, like you said. Get that brass button replaced and make sure the back side also has a good bypass. That should bring it to par with what you’re expecting. Lumens drop over 30 seconds is fantastic! :slight_smile:

I too like the big Vishay MOSFET’s, they’re just so… brazen! lol I think some of the new ones we’re using are more efficient with higher capabilities though. Also smaller, allowing more placements as fitment isn’t as big an issue.

I’m wondering… if I replace a brass retaining ring with a copper one will I see higher numbers? Might have to try that, just to find out if the brass is a limiting factor. How cool would it be if replacing a brass threaded ring with a copper one could give a half amp more current? I’d make a bar full of those and offer em up, for sure! Which reminds me, I need to find a thinner parting tool….

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And what, if we don’t reach 50 units?

btw I vote for “TE - Thrower Edition”

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1 more for TE, got it.

Seeing as how this GB has only been going for 14 days now, and some of them last for 6 months or more, I would like to think we can reach at least 50, hopefully in a much shorter time, as we are at the halfway point already (23) but close to half.

I can’t say for certain what will happen if minimums are not reached, as this is the first GB I have done.
We could speculate that they would do the GB for the ones already signed up, but then again we could also speculate they will not.
It could be possible, the company would work with me, for the ones we already have on the list, to get a light at the same price, but then again they may not.

So all I can say with certainty at this point, is I will do everything I can to get this thing done, and get at least what is already on the table for the GB.

Lets just keep positive for now, and I will do whatever I can, to get the numbers needed to get this thing to happen though.

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Oh yeah, I’m in!

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Got ya down bugsy, thanks

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I prefer SE, thrower edition of a thrower seems redundant.

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Do you guys think this will be more in the league of the Olight M2X?

edit: head dia is 63mm on both. The M2X UT does about 160kcd, at 2.9A. So at 4A+, I assume it will be about 200kcd?

Dales review of the M2X UT here:

https://budgetlightforum.com/t/-/30226

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I’m still a little hesitant to commit to buy one. Have we sorted out the details about what tints, emitter, and amps this will have? I also figured the price would be a little lower than what it is.

Also, H-M-L is pretty critical for a weapon light. This is one of the few lights that I feel really should be H-M-L. I prefer L-M-H for pretty much everything else. Would it be possible to have a star on the circuit board that can be soldered to reverse the L-M-H to H-M-L or vice versa? That would keep the guys who want to buy this as a weapon light (I mean come on it’s scope ring mountable and has an optional remote switch. This was destined to be mounted on a rifle) happy and the people who think H-M-L is backwards in every situation, right??

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You know, when I voted for that I knew exactly why, but didn't make it obvious CoolSealed

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At the moment the tint will be neutral, the emitter is the XP-L HI and it will have a “minimum” of 4 amps. If the numbers grow to 100 the price comes down to 58.50.

As far as changing the board, at the moment I wouldn’t think the company would want to, due to, as you say, this being a weapon light. Also with the numbers being low at the time, as far as how many we have on the list. They have worked with me for the minimum 4 amps driver (possibly 5 before it is over) and the XP-L Hi emitter, and half priced holster, half priced remote pressure switch, already to make it more appealing.

(EDIT) Forgot to mention, tracking IS included in the price also.

I understand wanting more in a package, as we all do , but we also have to understand the company probably isn’t going to keep giving until they see that it will be worth their while.

After using the one I already have though, I really prefer it to start on HI (personal preference), as when I have this light out to use, it is usually because I want to see far and want some serious throw.

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I made 4 m2x-ut’s for some mates.

One of them is still running at 5amps to the emitter on stock everything at 262,080 cd. (2x batts)

Different league altogether

Chris

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Just about double the price too aren’t they crnkin?

I didn’t like the Olight interface, so I pulled that driver and made changes. The Maxtoch torches seem more aptly geared for a gun mount light and don’t really need anything done to go to work with them. I haven’t seen one of these sniper’s so I can’t say for sure, but I’m banking that the build and finish will exceed that of the much more expensive Olight.

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Yep, advertised price is much higher, different league entirely.

The olight driver is like a freaking 1990s computer. Super reliable tho, but you actually need to read the destructions before use!

Chris

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Somebody wake me up when we have the necessary number of buyers.

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Yeah, I think they sent me the M2X-UT Javelot for review with no paperwork. There were things about it I didn’t find out til much later.

Oh well, it’s now got a modified LD-2 and an XHP-35 in it. Making 2300+ lumens with a very nice lux. I didn’t like 90’s computers then, or now. :wink: lol

The SN6X-2X had a very nice ano on it and was well built, but the modes were spaced a bit odd. I’m hoping they have solved that now, and this is the newest version with no Strobe so that’s a plus as well.

We shall see!

Is there a review light out there? Anybody got more details on the M24? I’d like to see how it breaks down and what the driver looks like….

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I was going to open mine up and get some pictures for you but, the smallest hex head I have is 1.5mm, and those tiny little screw heads that hold it together are even smaller than that. I will look tomorrow and see if I can locate something to fit them.

(EDIT) the mode spacing is listed as………

*Max output of 1200 lumens for approximately 1.5 Hours
*Mid output of 625 lumens for approximately 3.4 Hours
*Min output of 260 lumens for approximately 8.4 Hours
Note: Stated brightness and runtime figures are based on tests using 2PCS 18650 Li-ion batteries (approximate 3000mAH) under laboratory conditions. Variances in these figures will occur depending on batteries used and individual usage habits

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Stug - I wouldn’t worry too much about L-M-H or H-M-L for hunting. The Maxtochs have mode memory and will come back on in last mode used.

Latest Maxtoch 2X dedomed is 280k lux ex factory with no other mods, but with addition of dedomed U3 at home it will test around 300k at 10m. It does however retain good runtime - part of our design criteria - and will last 80 mins with fresh pana 3400s. The Olight M3X- UT specs at 250k lux, with max output in short bursts on turbo before stepdown. Claimed runtime is 5-50 minutes - and that’s not enough for our hunters.

Latest M24s test at 190-220k dedomed with U3s, retaining 85-110 mins runtime depending on circuit board. Easy to amp them up but again we wanted good runtimes.

Last test with two M24s with XPL HIs read max 165-167k lux. Swapping a dedomed U3 into one showed 190k lux - this with the lower current Maxtoch circuit board. With the slightly higher current one you’ll be looking at about 200k lux - the factory result.

It is possible my own lux meter reads a little low - but the very best result you can hope for from basic meters is +/- 5%.

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That sounds about on par with what TomE estimated after some testing with the XP-L HI last night, he estimated 200-230 with the higher amp driver in the M24.

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Here’s a comment I’ve just received from a NZ hunter using his Maxtochs - really made me smile:

“Thanks for your help Mike… Just did a week in Greenstone hunting and the headlamp … was awesome! For a laugh we went out at night and crept up on possums using red light (in the little Maxtoch HO1 headlamp) then blinded them with M24 while someone crept up from behind and clubbed them …… got 23 possums doing that and a couple of hundy bucks worth of fur! Cheers Paul ”

Very funny…. The beam intensity of 150k- 300k lights is so great it that in this case it stupified the possums, no doubt blinded them for a few seconds, and overrode the natural fight/flight response. A somewhat interesting hunting methodology… :bigsmile: :bigsmile: I think I’ll stick to the 12 guage.