Have we reached peak flashlight?

LED Flashlights – General Info
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It seems to me that we reached peak torch some years ago, at least for the smaller pocket lights. Many modern torches offer only small benefit compared to older ones, and sometimes they are a step backwards. We do get better runtimes thanks to more efficient emitters, 21700 batteries are nice, and those powerful emitters, such as the XHP70.2, are fantastic but require a larger body to allow continuous high output, otherwise they max out at about 600 lumens.

2AA NiMH
Many years ago I bought an Olight S15 light. There is nothing today that can match it. The Olight i5t Plus has a more efficent high mode, but the middle mode has gone. So you have very bright, or very dim, nothing in between for those really long walks. The Acebeam TAC 2AA has dreadful regulation with NiMH, but great with lithium. Why?

AA NiMH and lithium
The Olight S15 without the extension tube is as good as most modern AA (NiMH and lithium) lights.

4AA
These have gone out of favour, not surprising as they were big and heavy.

18650
My old Sunwayman C23C has three nicely spaced modes, high is 600 lumens, nicely regulated with a good runtime and moonlight is hidden. It is compact and beautifully made. Modern lights can offer better runtimes with modern emitters, but that’s all. Many modern lights have dreadful regulation, some have poor mode spacing. The Acebeam EC20 is beautiful, but with three closely spaced high/turbo modes. Why? Oh yes, we all want SupaDoopaMegaTurboSunBright mode that can fry retinas and lasts ten seconds before plunging to exhausted glowworm level. Olight have taken to using proprietary batteries. Why? Well, we all know why. Fenix are nice, but rather expensive, and they use their own UI which some of us hate.

I guess manufacturers make what sells. Good regulation doesn’t sell. Deceptive output claims sell.

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I think you may have a point, most lights are capable of peak output that’s not thermally sustainable because physics gets in the way and most well-regulated lights seem to have broadly similar sustained output in their class. LEDs cannot currently be made to run cooler and current drivers can be very efficient, so it’s hard to see how things could be improved.

As for Olight’s batteries, I believe there are two factors at work. One, obviously, it benefits them if you have to buy their batteries. Two, they were sued after a pair of third-party batteries exploded in one of their lights. This was not Olight’s fault, but having been dragged into court for it I don’t blame them for wanting to exercise control over what people put into their lights, especially as they have a lot of mainstream recognition and a customer base including non-enthusiasts who might just try running their light on whatever batteries they have to hand.

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Hmm, I see it the other way around; their batteries and light that only take them are more dangerous with non enthusiasts; They are less likely to know the battery is different than every other similar fkashlight battery they see, and will still blow up the light with the wrong battery, or something else with the special battery…

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I’ve tried a standard 18650 in my Warrior Mini 3, it just didn’t work. I’ve not tried putting the Olight customised 18650 into anything else because it has both terminals on one end and that sounds potentially dodgy in a light not designed for it - which is kind of making your point.

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LED flashlights have been “good” for around a decade now. The XP-G R5-era Fenix, 4Sevens, itp (now Light?) etc lights are still pretty reasonable, in my opinion superior to cell-phone LED flashlight.

Complaints about hard step-down from turbo is fairly common, there are two schools of thought:

Group A want the absolute brightest they can get, either for bragging rights or “nice to have incase you need”

Group B want a high sustainable output and it’s a challenge to compare like with like for high output runtime.

To add complication to above, environmental conditions play a large part in sustainable output, and are not commonly discussed. This forum feels more varied than “the other one” in terms of where members are from in the world, I’d be interested to hear people’s output preferences based on their local environmental conditions. When I did some work in a jungle years ago, my Emisar D4 (v1, 219a) was virtually unusable on turbo the temperature was already 24C. Winter walks in the UK allow a higher sustained output.

Proprietary cells are always a contentious issue here, I can understand why Olight do it though, for reasons Chris mentioned. Bare 18650/21700 cells are absolutely not intended for consumer use by the manufacturers, the fact we happily use un-protected cells is just because we accept the risk and enjoy the high energy density in a convenient form factor. There are sufficient flashlight options available that don’t take proprietary cells that I don’t mind if some manufacturers want to go the “closed source” route.

Whether or not we have “peaked” remains to be seen. I think we are in an era of customisable “beam quality”; the 519A was an enormous leap in terms of readily available, moderate/high output, high CRI, good range of CCT, normal voltage range and easily de-domed. New LEDs (e.g FFL range) offer previously unavailable high output CCT/tint/output options, various Chinese LEDs offer insane drive currents for those who want max light.

Combine the above LED options with the increasing availability of lights with TIR optics: it’s relatively straightforward to swap a narrow spot optic for a honeycomb flood optic, for example, so you can tune the beam to your personal preference.

I’m not so keen on the “future” stuff others seem excited for- voice control, Bluetooth/WiFi connectivity, phone apps, motion detection etc etc but I’m sure there will be some innovation with UI and drivers which will be of interest to many.

Two aspects we seem to have “lost” over the years are:

Rotary control lights, Sunwayman used to be the main producer but somehow have just faded into obscurity.

Extremely compact builds - DQG again has unfortunately ceased to produce lights, their line- up was often the smallest available light in its class.

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All of those sound awful.

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Nice discussion. If I may add one more reason. I have no need for my high-output lights or my super-throwers. They are just so much FUN. Either the lightsaber (throwers) or the “wall of light” (monster-output lights) effect beats Nichia tint analysis anyday.

The next peak that’s so far unconquered IMHO is high output super-thrower with good tint. The undisputed “kings”, SBT90.2 and FFL909MMX, are both pukey green. This is why all eyes are on the upcoming FFL909 4500k. Lots of expectations.

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Yes I agree with the desire for BBL duv neutral-warm high luminescence emitters.

I felt I’d rambled on enough so decided to stop there, but I think there should be some progress to come with the above, also purple pumped emitters still seems like a niche technology which might bring some additional high CRI options, even if they’re not screaming in the output department.

Phosphor converted colours are another I’d like to see more of, the broader peak of wavelengths compared to almost monochromatic colour emitters is just a different “kind” of light, albeit at the expense of efficacy.

One last area I think we have seen good progress in the last couple of years is shortwavelengths- high output LW UV emitters have come down in price and SW options are increasingly common, though still comparatively low output.

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Gotta love the EC4 series, like the EC4GT. Over’n’under 18650s, flat output from just-out-of-the-charger 'til last-gasp-before-UVP-kicks-in.

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When some brands are still making flashlights with built-in batteries… there is always room for improvement… !

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The best flashlights each year will get better and better, but the improvements from one year to the next will be minimal.
Wait a decade and then compare the best 2035 flashlights to the best 2025 flashlights.
That’s when you’ll see a big difference. :flashlight:

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As long as turbo modes are hidden, and there is a decent high mode, everyone is happy, surely. It’s when you get the impression that the light exists to house multiple turbo modes that it gets annoying.

Very true, but that’s physics. A small head means poor heat dissipation, and thus low output in warm conditions. As long as there is a decent high mode that is sustained at room temperature, most of us will be happy.

I reckon nowadays vaping is driving the use of these cells. And fortunately most modern lights only use one battery which is much safer than two more in series.

Closed cells means of course paying lots for proprietary cells, rather than good quality protected alternatives.

Do most users care about tint and TIR optics? I reckon that is a niche market, unless the light is very obviously green, or purple or whatever.

I have two Sunwayman M40A lights and one V10A light. I also owned two Jetbeam RRT01 lights. They were great, but in my opinion a modern light running Anduril or similar with a side switch is much easier to use and cheaper to make. The only advantage is if you absolutely must avoid using a higher level, or need access to a continuous range including moonlight. Some Sunwayman rotary lights are still available, NOS I assume.

If emitter makers can solve the heat problem, we will see some ridiculously bright lights. Anyone for a heat pump equipped hand torch?

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Yeh I’m not saying it’s not a valid reason, only for this group the absolute max output is more important than sustained output.

I view this in the same way as proprietary cells- if you don’t want a light with built in or special cells, don’t buy it. I like that there is choice, they’re not for me, but I know people I wouldn’t trust with removable cells, a built in battery would be great for this, it’s no different to most electronic devices nowadays.

Programmable UI like Anduril solves a lot of things, you can cap the output to whatever you want. For the “tactical” types, hidden turbo is essentially useless, so they wouldn’t care for it. I miss the UI of the old Fenix/nitecore/eagletax lights with modes separated into head tight and head loose sets.

It’s hard to answer such broad questions, but generally joe public just want high output and non-complicated UI. We are on a flashlight forum, so I’d say most users here do care about the CCT, CRI, tint, optics etc - even if it’s to care as much as going for a low CRI/high CCT so as to get max output.

Lol how bright is ridiculously bright for you? In my opinion we passed into ridiculous territory a few years ago.

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On 2025 we supposed to go forward… not backwards… !?

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In my opinion, there are too extreme ends of the flashlight manufacturing spectrum. There are flashlights manufactured by accountants, and there are flashlights manufactured by enthusiasts. Those are the two ends of the spectrum. All flashlights fall somewhere in between those two extremes.

I’m still a big fan of the surefire 6P with a Malkoff or Sportac drop-in.

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It’s all about preferences. There’s a flashlight for everyone these days: easy to use and pretty tame on output, or crazy amounts of brightness, beam distance, or sode illumination. Each has their place. Pros don’t need a Emisar D4 Ti or a Convoy E21a. they need a Olight Warrior 3S or a Fenix PD35 or PD36. Cops don’t have Wurkkos TS23s on their belts. They have Olight Warrior X4s, Fenix TK20R, PD36 TACs or Streamlight Stingers. All about needs. Price too. The dollar for features ratio is thr highest it’s ever been-like ever in 2025. A very nice flashlight can be had for $50 or less. I think tech has stagnated a bit, but that’s okay for now. I think the future is batteries, drivers, and LEDs. Smaller, cheaper, more efficient-not necessarily more power.

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I hate those adjustable head lights, but having two or more user selectable sets of modes is great. Or something like the Manker U11 where the user can set the levels. Ideally connect a USB cable and program the levels from a PC, or use Bluetooth to program them from a smart phone.

Obviously some or maybe most people here do care, but I’d argue that we are a tiny minority of buyers.

Sure, I’m not referring to really absurd lights. But I have a couple of 21700 lights that do a regulated ~1,500 lumens for an hour while walking on a cold winter’s night, and they are relatively compact and fit in a coat pocket. Solve the heat problem and an even more compact light using a 21700 battery would give roughly 1,500 lumens indoors for most of an hour. It would cater for most dog walkers.

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I agree. Size is everything.

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2025, but I still haven’t found an optimized headlamp. Skilhunt is close, but just close. :smiling_face_with_tear:

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I’m a big fan of the Nitecore EC4GT. Twin 18650 cells. Excellent rectangular grip. Nice deep reflector. Fantastic thermal management. While I’m not a fan of that 6500k XM-L2 emitter tint, it does throw well. Nitecore had about 5 variants on this theme. One even taking 4xAA. I wish Nitecore hadn’t abandoned it. Upgrade the emitter, provide on-board charging and… a flashlight valid for many years to come.