Help/advice needed for diy UV light for Amber searching

Flashlight Modding and DIY Parts
1

Edit:
I moved the thread from “Flashlight Modding and DIY Parts” to “want to buy”, as I’m in over my head if i have to make the flashlight myself.

Hi :slight_smile:

I need some good advice before I buy, or make a uv lamp diy-style.

The lamp is for when I go treasure-hunting for amber at night by the sea.

During my research I’ve searched this and other forums, and found several informative/relevant threads:

http://www.alieneye.info/tubelight/index.html

But i still have a lot of questions

My requirements for the lamp:

I have found these products, but most are quite expensive, or you have to order more than one. Therefore, I am examining whether I can make a similar or better lamp, at a lower price:

http://www.larsonelectronics.com/p-68975-5-watt-led-uv-handheld-spotlight-ultraviolet-365nm-pistol-grip-w-16-coil-cord-9-32vdc.aspx

http://www.viewpointlaboratories.com/trueblack/mr16-trueblack-365-nm-12-led-photo-quality-uv-blacklight-spotlight/
http://www.shop.gregmcgeeengineering.com/U301-365nm-Nichia-UV-LED-Flashlight-019.htm
http://www.dyron.fr/page_article.php?id_article=77&cat_article=eclairage&language=2 (wavelength?)
Hartenberger Taucherlampen und UW Handleuchten - wegweisend in der UW-Beleuchtungstechnik Expensive!!!
http://www.uvcuringlamp.net/uv-curing-lamp-365nm-10w-p-542.html (cannot order only one :frowning: )
http://taoyuan.en.made-in-china.com/product/vBxECHXlCUcD/China-UV-Curing-Floodlight-365nm-20W.html (Cannot order only one)
http://www.bergeng.com/TRI-365HA-prod.html

Questions:
I have searched the web for housing for MR16, but have not really been able to find any good ones. Maby “housing” is not the right search-term (I’m from denmark). Only a lot diy made out of water pipes and similar. Do any of you know any resellers of housing for the MR16 with GU5.3 base? -Or are there better options for diy than MR16 with GU5.3 base?

Housing and diy:

http://nordicgroup.us/s78/indexn.html#MR16%20Lamp%20Based%20Headlamps
couldent find a reseller of the dual setup in the above link :frowning:

Additionally, I am in doubt about which bulbs/LED’s are the most powerful and which ones best suit my purposes -or if there are better alternatives I do not know about:

http://dk.mouser.com/search/refine.aspx?Ntk=P_MarCom&Ntt=161382735
http://www.goldengadgets.com/365nm-uv-ultraviolet-3-watt-led-light-bulb-mr16-12v-dc.html

Furthermore I would like to test the difference in light emitted from amber under a wavelength of 365nm, and in a lower wavelength. If someone has two different UV lights, preferable a 365nm, and one between 320nm and 365nm, I could send you some pieces of amber, so we can test the difference.

I have a pair Oakley M-frame sunglasses. Does anyone know what lenses I should buy that protects best against UV rays, and possibly highlights the reflected light from the amber? Preferably not too dark lenses as I go “amber-hunting” at night :slight_smile:

Any advice would be much appreciated. Or maybe someone knows where to find the parts I need to build a kick-ass UV searchlight :slight_smile:

Cheers from Denmark

2

Admittedly, I didn’t read all of your links (you have already done a lot of research there).

I just want to make a few remarks.

Firstly, especially when using a UV-source in the dark, protective glasses are a very good idea. I can’t comment on sunglasses, I personally would use something like this:

http://www.amazon.de/3M-Schutzbrille-2742-AS-gelb/dp/B002A0181I/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1421900330&sr=8-4&keywords=schutzbrille+uv

Secondly, the budget of 250 USD will certainly buy you a kick-ass UV-lamp, especially if you are willing to build it yourself.

But have you considered going small scale first? A UV-Lamp with a single LED of decent output might be all you need, since you want to use it in the dark. I don’t know how strong the fluorescence of amber is, but your minimum of 5 meters should be reached easily. Runtime depends on how many batteries you take with you, and when you use a flashlight host, water should be no problem.
Emitters with 365 nm or below are rather rare (or at least they were the last time i looked). Have you seen this thread?

Also, a UV filter might be overkill. Those things are rather pricey, and in a moonless light you might actually need the visible light from the UV lamp to navigate.

I hope you succeed with your build. Please keep us posted on your progress, you have a very interesting project there!

3

Thanks for the answer, and the links.

You’ve got a few good points.
I had not read the thread about the cheaper Chinese led. Good idea to start up with a cheaper led as a proof of concept -to see if it’s adequate for my purpose.

I already own a cheap uv led flashlight - Kraftig UV-håndlampe med 21 LED U200
I bought it before i found out that the wavelength of the uv should be around or below 365nm. I think mine is around 390-400nm.

It’s not good, but it makes the amber glow a little. But the lamp also emits a lot of visible blue/purple light, making it harder to see the luminescence of the amber (I’ll post an image later)

Also i found out that all Oakleys glasses protects against uv-light. And, as i own a pair of clear glasses for my Oakley M-frame I’m good to go:
https://www.oakleysi.com/Technology_Detail.cfm?id=3 (see under “UV PROTECTION” - i wonder if their Plutonite® is from outer space … - but an awesome name :slight_smile: )

Furthermore I found, that I have a pair of glasses my girlfriend was given through her work as a staff accountant under the Danish Defence. I haven’t used them as I thought they were butt-ugly -but it turns out they also protect against uv-rays. Huah! :

http://www.esseyepro.com/Crossbow-3LS-Kit_284_detail.html#\_overview

Anyway. I would like to give it a try with the Chinese led, but i have no experience with DIY and soldering.

Any recommendations of what housing to buy? Any tutorials or guides on how to install a led?

Btw. I have an old surefire 6P -could this be modified to emit uv, maybe as a less powerful backup?

Oh -and I found this beast. To bad it’s so pricey :-p Dual-emitter high flux NDT inspection flashlight KIT - CRIME SCENE TOOLS

But if I could end up with something like that, on a diy budget, I would be psyched!!! :slight_smile:

Cheers :slight_smile:

4

To answer your two main questions, I’d recommend LED Engin’s UV LED. djozz and Cereal_killer have done some experiments with it, and it’s probably the best UV led you can find.

As for UV blocking glasses, check out Uvex’s goggles. (Make sure to review spec sheets.) I have the Uvex Orange for UV and blue blocking purposes, and they do a great job without breaking the bank.

5

Well, the LED is your choice, the Ledengines LZ1 has better output, the chinese emitter is a lot cheaper.

The flashlight to put the LED into is determined by your choice of batteries. Do you want to invest in Lithium rechargeables, which are powerful and compact but require more expensive equipment and care, or do you want to go with alkaline/NiMH rechargeables, which are more user friendly but carry less energy?

In theory that Surefire 6P is all you need. You can buy a drop in made for LEDs, put the LED and a driver circuit into it, stuff it into the Surefire body and you’re done.
Intl-Outdoor may even be able to put a drop in together for you if you ask them, since they make and sell those.
Only problem is, as far as I remember the Surefire 6P is not wide enough for 18650 Li rechargeables, only CR123 primaries, so maybe the driver circuit needs to be adjusted if you want to go with primaries. Expensive batteries though.
Installation is as follows:
http://flashlightwiki.com/DIY_P60
It’s fairly easy to do, you just need the components, soldering iron and thermal adhesive.

The Oakley sunglasses look ok, but I don’t know if “100 % UV protection” stands true for use with a high power UV source. You can do a simple test: Put the sunglasses in front of the UV-Lamp, and see if you get fluorescence from the remaining light. If yes, choose other glasses (Uvex etc, specific for UV and blue light as mentioned above).
Even short exposure to light from high power UV LEDs can irritate the cornea - feels like sand in your eyes after a few hours.

That CSI-Flashlight looks cool, but if you get into the hobby, you will be able to do something equivalent for a fraction of the price.

6

thanks ryansoh3 - the build by Cereal_killer is insane! LED ENGIN 365nm LZ1 in carbon fiber solarforce

Confusius - I would definitely go with Lithium rechargeables as the best time for amber-hunting is at fall and winter. And here in DK it can get pretty cold in the winter. As I understand it Lithium rechargeables are the ones who performs best in cold conditions.

What do you mean by “require more expensive equipment and care”? Because the chargers are more expensive? And what extra care. I wouldn’t want to blow my self up, so please inform :slight_smile:

At work we have some different battery powered Makita tools. The all run on Lithium-Ion batteries, and take a daily beating of moist, drops to the floor and so on. No explosions yet (knocking on wood …) :-p

Batteries, drop-ins, soldering, “circuit needs to be adjusted” … gasp!
The more I learn, the more overwhelming I think it seems.

Are there any sub-forums where I can request, or buy a custom build?

Also I’m very interested in learning if anyone inhere own, or has access to both a uv-light at around 365nm, and one below 365nm -to see the difference in luminescence from Amber under uv-light. I would happily send some small pieces of amber for someone to test.

oh -and as promised a photo of som amber illuminated with my cheap uv-lamp, in my high-tech darkroom (aka in bed under the quilt)

7

I know the cheaper drop-in I used for my scorpion hunting build did poorly for illuminating amber; I tried on a couple of small pieces I have and only got a very dim fluorescence. I used a $5 pair of Wal-Mart yellow-lensed safety glasses advertised as being UV blocking and they worked well. When I would shine my UV light through the lens, objects would not fluoresce, so I assume they did a good job of UV blocking. They helped immensely, and I didn't notice any eye strain or discomfort like you would note when using a UV light unprotected...

Now, tell me more about looking for amber at the beach? Laughing

All I find are shark teeth:

8

Cool with the shark teeth -never found any of them here.

What wavelength was your lamp? Amber is most fluorescent from 320-365nm.

To find the amber, the weather, and the time has to be right. And there has to be the right type of woody debris. And of course there are small differences from location to location.

At the western coast of Jutland in Denmark (where I live) the best conditions would be:

  • Stormy weather for a couple of days, freeing debris from the seabed, with the wind blowing towards the shore (wind comming from west) .
  • Then the wind has to settle down and turn counter clockwise, and end blowing away from the shore. As the wind blows the surface water away from the shore, it will create an under current, sending debris and hopefully amber toward the shore.
  • An hour after high tide, is the best time to start, as it is the time when the debris start to be deposited on the shore. And then its just to walk up and down the beach scouting for debris, and amber.

A hint of where the debris will come ashore will be the seaguls, as they roam above the debris, searching for food, before it reaches the shore. Of course no seaguls at night :slight_smile:

The price for amber is crazy right now. For some reason the Chinese is buying a lot of amber right now.

9

Last thing I know, led emitters lower than 365nm are difficult to source and have terrible output.

How much are you in a hurry? I just today got in a Nichia 365nm uv-led that I am going to do some tests on, and then build it into a flashlight. I hope to have done that in two weeks. I can then borrow you three 365nm flashlights to try them out for your amber-searching, in return I like some pictures of how they perform to be posted here on BLF :-) . I'm in theNetherlands so sending them does not take too much time. The two other flashlights have the Ledengin LZ1, and a cheaper chinese 365nm led. The LZ1 flashlight has a good beam that illuminates things a decent distance away.

I suspect that these flashlights have a UV-output comparable to 150+ dollar professional lights, but cost less than 50 to make.

Does this sound ok to you?

10

Not sure if you have already seen these:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/321464744098

365nm - XP-sized emitter. I would use one of these to build up a P60.

Or mod up a triple in a light like this...

http://www.dx.com/p/fandyfire-g36-3-x-cree-xm-l-t6-2500lm-5-mode-memory-white-light-flashlight-black-2-x-18650-140969

J)

11

djozz, it would be nice to have a kick-ass amber searchlight OF DOOM in my hands right now :slight_smile: -but I have managed without uv so far, as it’s quite recent that I learned the uv/amber trick.

Sounds soooo great, if you could help me. :beer:
Maybe it would be easier/cheaper, if I just send you the amber? The small pieces is of no large value, so you could just keep it after receiving it.

12

Thanks keltex78

I think I abandoned the idea of DIY. I’m afraid Ill just screw up, and ruin some expensive stuff. I would rater have one of you pro’s build one, and pay you for the work.

I really like the idea of a triple setup. I have been searching around the forums and drooled over a some of the lights:-)

13

I wonder what these would be like in some sort of Sky Ray King or a multi XP MCPCB setup?
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/3535-SMD-package-UV-violet-LED-lamp-365nm-ceramic-substrate-disinfection-anti-counterfeit-money-detector-UV/330416_32252733809.html

EDIT:

Interesting host.
http://www.cnqualitygoods.com/goods.php?id=1178

EDIT: 2

Or maybe reflow 3 of those LEDs into this?
http://www.mtnelectronics.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=80&product_id=368

14

I assume that having the lights in your hand will enable you see how it actually performs during your amber-searching. But of course I will be glad checking out a piece of amber you send to me as well. In that case I will report here and make pictures :-)

15

I know this sounds difficult, but it really isn’t that hard.
All you need is a drop in like this:

http://www.dx.com/p/26-5mm-aluminum-reflector-drop-in-module-set-without-emitter-5955

And a Driver, the cheapest suitable one would be this:

http://www.dx.com/p/700ma-1-mode-2-x-7135-1-x-4148-led-driver-circuit-board-for-flashlight-green-3-5v-351519#.VMMaUy6LJd0

The LED is installed into the brass part with thermal adhesive, the driver is installed into the other side of the brass part by soldering it in place (see link in my last post). Connect to two wires from driver to LED and you are basically done.

To Lithium batteries: yes, they will perform better in cold weather conditions, and have overall best energy densities.
However, they differ from the batteries in power tools insofar, that they lack the sophisticated safety circuits. This means, you can damage them more easily by deep discharging them as well as overcharging them.
Overcharging can be avoided by getting a good charger - doesn’t have to be a expensive one. This one for example works well and is safe:

http://intl-outdoor.com/ml102-v60-usb-charger-for-18650-26650-battery-p-243.html

Avoiding deep discharging is on you: when you see the light getting dimmer, change batteries. Don’t run them till they are dead.

A word of advice: If you decide on buying a multi cell Lithium battery flashlight, ALWAYS make sure you use batteries of the SAME charging state. Test this with a Digital Multimeter. Best practice would be to buy the needed amount of batteries of the same type, and always use those with your light.

If batteries of different charging state/age/capacity are mixed, or heavily discharged/overcharged, serious accidents can happen (read: explosions and fire).
However, Lithium batteries can be handled safely. Just be aware of their limitations, and you will be fine!

Can somebody provide a link to an introduction page into Lithium batteries? I think the OP may find this helpful.

16

djozz -that would be great!! -Ill send you a pm, to get your address.

Confusius - I’ll give it a try with a cheap non-uv led, dropin and driver as you suggested, for my surefire 6p.
But I’m afraid that I’ll screw up, so I’ll postpone the diy with the “expensive goods” :slight_smile:
Regarding the Lithium batteries. I had no idea they could be that difficult to manage. Could a setup with a NiMH rechargeable, give a runtime of 2-3 hours?

Jubeldum, those look awesome! It’s something like that I’m aiming for.

Well not necessary that small. I would rather have a larger flashlight, with longer run-time. Weight and size is not really a concern.

By the way. Would a setup with a tripple LEN ENGIN LZ1 365mn UV run hot if it was used continuously for 2-3 hours?

17

Imo, 1st thing is result of djozz’s findout about illumination of amber. He already tested and have some of 365nm led to compare with and currently that Nichia 365nm is consider one of the best 365nm UV led. So you’re in absolutely right hand.

Later on, if result is good, you can ask to build UV flashlight that more suitable for your need.
Some 365nm UV led “usually” set to draw current roughly 1A - 1.2A max. so single 18650 is enough for single UV led for 2 - 3 hours. If you need longer time can use host with parallel batteries.

18

Good to be in good hands :slight_smile:
Tanks for the info Calmaja. I’ll be sending the amber for djozz tomorrow.

Two 18650’s in parallel sounds grest. Three would be even better :wink: I have also been thinking of a setup with a bicykle lamp with 2-3 leds, with external batteries. And then make a cool looking pistol grip. :heart_eyes:

19

And of course with some amber embedded in the grip :-p

Build around a setup with external battery pack.

Either one of these, modded with uv led
http://www.lights-box.com/new-black-solarstorm-x2-2-cree-xp-l-v5-led-cycling-light-2200lm-4-mode-led-bike-light-black-head-lamp-only

Or a setup with two of these, connected to one battery pack, modded with uv led:
http://www.lights-box.com/single-1-cree-xm-l-u2-3-modes-led-bike-light-lamp-8-4v

8)

20

In case you don’t want to use lithium ion batteries, I just saw mention of a 3 x AA capable light Ultrafire F13 at $11.39 - with Coupon Code - Gearbest comment 27. I think he has a separately bought holder, but it looks like one comes with the light. If Ni metal hydride cells don’t work well enough in the cold, you could use Energizer 1.5 V non-rechargeable lithium cells (expensive).