I have discovered a quirk regarding the 1.5V LiIon, sometimes it acts like the battery Voltage is low.

[jon_slider]

When using an Xtar 2450mAh CLR 1.5V LiIon with USB-C in my Zebralight H503R, which is Not LiIon compatible, the light will step down and turn off after I try to use it, even at a very low output. In this condition the battery check gives only one blink. Opening and reclosing the tailcap seems to wake the battery up.

After that the light works normally.

I sometimes notice a similar quirk in my KR1AA when using 1.5V LiIon

Sometimes after the light has been sitting unused for a day or more, a battery check will report 3.12V.

In this condition the ouput is limited to about 125 lumens, even though the ceiling is set to 300 lumens. When I do battery check again a couple more times, it begins to indicate 1.5V, which is the expected normal. After that the light reaches the full output of 300 lumens (ceiling 90/150) without stepping down.

conjecture:

It seems after the 1.5V LiIon has been sitting idle for more than 24 hours, that the Voltage conversion chip goes to sleep. When this happens the non LiIon compatible Zebra steps down and turns off. My LiIon compatible SC53c N does not seem to have this issue.

The KR1AA has done this sleeping Voltage chip routine a number of times. It seems to wake up the chip after a couple of battery voltage check cycles. After that it works normally for the rest of the day.

[SammysHP]

@jon_slider

It seems after the 1.5V LiIon has been sitting idle for more than 24 hours, that the Voltage conversion chip goes to sleep.

Nope, I’ve never seen that behavior. It’s running all the time, otherwise it would cause all kind of problems frequently.

@jon_slider

I sometimes notice a similar quirk in my KR1AA when using 1.5V LiIon

Sometimes after the light has been sitting unused for a day or more, a battery check will report 3.12V.

That sounds more like some kind of pass-through behavior. Would make me nervous because it could damage devices thataare not expecting voltages above 1.5V.

But as I said, I’ve never experienced this with 20+ batteries with internal regulator.

[jon_slider]

thanks for your thoughts,

the issue has happened multiple times and I have just been trying to figure out how to describe the circumstances accurately

@SammysHP

I’ve never seen that behavior. It’s running all the time

well, Im not sure its actually sleeping.. maybe its just transmitting a LiIon voltage (as in the KR1AA 3.12V example) instead of 1.5V

@SammysHP

Would make me nervous because it could damage devices that are not expecting voltages above 1.5V.

I can understand you being nervous about that

fwiw, 14500 LiIon does not damage my Zebras, even when they are not LiIon compatible, it just reduces the number of available modes.

@SammysHP

I’ve never experienced this

Have you tried 1.5V LiIon in the two lights Im reporting that detect the issue? KR1AA and a not LiIon compatible Zebra?

Are you specifically using the same Xtar 2450mAh CLR 1.5V LiIon with USB-C, that Im reporting the issue with? (I dont know if it affects other versions)

I would welcome your help figuring out the relevant variables.. is it the CLR USB-C version only?

I have not tested any other version except Xtar 2450mAh CLR 1.5V LiIon with USB-C… this is the one that has constant 1.5V discharge for the first 80% of runtime.. I did make sure the batteries are fully charged. I charged them yesterday just to eliminate that possibility.

Today the non LiIon compatible Zebra H503R would not stay on when I tried to use a Low mode, it would step down and turn off, until I opened and closed the tailcap.

The issue did not happen today with the KR1AA, nor with two of my LiIon compatible Zebras, an SC53c N and an H53Fc LE… I dont know exactly how long the battery has to rest to cause the issue in the KR1AA, but it has done it multiple times, showing 3.12V for two batt check cycles, before switching over to 1.5V readings, in the recent past.

[SammysHP]

@jon_slider

Are you specifically using the same Xtar 2450mAh CLR 1.5V LiIon with USB-C, that Im reporting the issue with? (I dont know if it affects other versions)

Do you mean this model, that I reviewed some time ago? They never entered pass-through mode during my testing and even a few milliseconds of higher voltage than 2V would damage some of the devices I’m using them with.

[jon_slider]

@SammysHP

Do you mean this model, that I reviewed some time ago?

not exactly, your battery has no USB:

(I dont know yet, if the problem is limited to 1.5V LiIon batteries w USB-C)

I am using this CLR model with USB-C:

fwiw I just duplicated the quirk in the Zebra H503R, with a separate battery of the same type, take from that Zebra SC53c N in the photo above

after loosening the tailcap on the H503R 5 hours ago, I decided to try a different 1.5V battery that was in that SC53c N, with the tailcap closed for the past 5 hours, to eliminate the possibility that the issue was a specific battery

I turned on the H503R on a very low output, and a few seconds later it turned off again. It did this twice in a row. I then did battery check and it gave only 1 blink.

I then loosened the tailcap in the 503R and then reclosed the light and did battery check again.. It gave the expected normal 4 blinks, and the light now works again without turning itself off.

next I tested a KR1AA that has been sitting for the past 5 hours w low Aux on, with another of the same model CLR (I have 4 separate CLR batteries of this model). First I turned off the Aux, then did battery check, and it reported 3.1X V one time and turned the batt check off. (I write 3.1X V for that test because Im not positive I counted the second decimal blinks correctly)

I then did batt check again, and it reported the expected normal 1.5V, repeating until I clic off..

the quirk is not limited to the Zebra 503R, it also affects the KR1AA..

I just tested the KR1AA with its batt check again, and it reported 3.18V (counted correctly), then paused and gave a single flash of the Aux (I have red aux set to do batt check blinks), and it stopped the batt check, by itself, even though the light is in advanced.

Now I did batt check in the KR1AA Again after writing that paragraph, and it is back to normal 1.5V blinks, repeating.

there is some sort of quirk with these CLR batteries with USB-C.. it is not limited to a specific battery, and it is not limited to a specific light

When the KR1AA reports a LiIon voltage it is much lower than it should actually be (it is not a full actual LiIon Voltage pass through), since I charged the CLR battery yesterday and have not used the light except by doing a batt check on it 5 hours ago (after it sat overnight with Low Aux On), which resulted in a normal 1.5V result.

Then I did Voltage check on the KR1AA again as reported now. Which resulted in two not normal 3.1X V and 3.18 V events, spaced only about a minute apart.

I feel like Im going crazy, living in an alternate universe of inconsistent battery behaviors.. will try to leave the lights alone until tomorrow..

===

update, according to this report using a 1.5V LiIon w USB-C
not all light models have the problem..
Skilhunt E3A (dual fuel): No Problem
Sofirn ST10 (dual fuel): Yes Problem

my experience is also w USB-C 1.5V LiIon
Zebra SC53c N (dual fuel): No Problem
Zebra H53Fc LE (dual fuel): No Problem
Zebra H503R (single fuel): Yes Problem
Emisar KR1AA (dual fuel): Yes Problem
(the issue is not specific to single fuel vs dual fuel)

I dont know yet, if the problem is limited to 1.5V LiIon batteries w USB-C.
(the only problem reports I have so far, Are with USB-C batteries, but it does not affect all light models)

the problem seems solvable by opening and closing the tailcap

[ZC_Lighting]

The behavior you are describing sounds like the protection circuit on the 1.5V Li-Ion cell kicking in under load. These cells have a buck regulator inside — when the current draw spikes on turbo, the regulator can sag momentarily and the light sees a voltage dip that triggers the low-voltage cutoff.

Try running the light on medium for 20-30 seconds before switching to turbo. If the issue disappears, it is almost certainly the cell regulator not keeping up with the inrush. A NiMH cell will confirm: if the light behaves normally on Eneloops but not on the 1.5V Li-Ion, the cell is the variable.

Which brand of 1.5V Li-Ion are you using? Some of the earlier XTAR and Keeppower 1.5V cells had this exact behavior with boost-driver lights because the regulator response time is not fast enough for the current spike when the inductor charges. The newer Hixon and EBL ones with the updated controller chips handle this better.

[jon_slider]

@ZC_Lighting

These cells have a buck regulator inside — when the current draw spikes on turbo, the regulator can sag momentarily and the light sees a voltage dip that triggers the low-voltage cutoff.

Welcome to BLF ZC_Lighting

Thank you for your thoughts about Turbo tripping protection. That makes sense, but I am not using Turbo.

1. Sometimes when I turn on the Zebra H503R at 2 lumens, within a few seconds it steps down and shuts off. Battery check only gives 1 blink. This is solved be opening and closing the tailcap, after which the light works normally, and battery check gives 4 blinks.

2. Sometimes when I do battery check on my Emisar KR1AA, which causes a brief flash of 30 lumens, the 1.5V LiIon reports 3.18Volts. In that condition the light will not reach the 300 lumen ceiling, instead the output is limited to about 150 lumens. This is solved by doing battery check 2 more times, at which point it begins to report the expected normal 1.5V, and the light will reach 300 lumens.

Im using fully charged Xtar CLR 2450mAh 1.5V LiIon w built in USB-C. Do you have any insight to explain those behaviors. It seems to happen after the lights sit unusued for 24 hours or more.