I have used some TIR optics flashlights with different beam patterns but the most appealing fact about them was that they could have better efficiency out of the same emitter, by forwarding all of the light to the front. I have a Hugsby P2 more like a thrower, have a Led Lenser with unique push pull TIR optics and had a Romisen with similar action to a Led Lenser.
I see Fenix and some other manufacturers pick TIR optics lately for their small lights. I ordered a E05 and a E11 already. There is also DQG AA light I plan to get that was said to have a very nice beam. But I can’t see a more powerful light with an optimized high quality fixed TIR optic other than SureFire’s. I know manufacturing a good TIR lens is more complicated than to manufacture a flawless reflector. So I won’t ask why we don’t see many TIR lights but if there are any affordable (under $100) lights or DIY TIR optics to have as a more powerful solution. Plus, I would like to hear if there are any glass TIR projects on p60 hosts, you might have tried?
Do you mean, that the plastic TIR is more efficient by concentrating light and leaving less flood to sides compared to reflector?
I have been thinking, that TIR loses more absolute lumens compared to for example a good reflector + minimal loss glass.
I must say, I´ve been thinking to test something after I got my DQG Tiny AAA. It has big hotspot and generously wide spill.
On P60 size I could do without a diffuser if I could get the hotspot distributed widely...
Well, this is what I have seen in my Led Lenser and Romisen. And SureFire seems to have used this technology in all of their newer lights. I have a few plastic TIRs optics I once got from DX and tried one on a Maglite clone. The beam is throwy but a bit dirty. The tint and beam pattern could be better with some higher quality TIR optics.
Led-Tech seems to have a wide variation of them:
Hmm, nice collection of optics. But led-tech has a very high shipping for my country.
I also found some optics at Cutter and they seem to have batter shipping rates. Still couldn’t decide which one to buy. I guess 26.5 mm ones are the best fit for p60 drop ins.
I’ve used the 23mm ones from DX. The beam was fine (not dirty in mine) and it basically looked almost the same as with a reflector except the spill was slightly reduced in brightness and I’m sure the corona was slightly increased.
I like it for the effect that it had on the spill. Since it was reduced it also had the effect of reducing that hard edge that you get with reflector as you go from some light to total dark at the outer edges.
Today I ordered a few TIR lenses from DX and Cutter Electronics. I hope I’ll find the better results I was looking for.
Oh, I also found a UltraFire light with huge TIR lens. Here at the DX www.dealextreme.com/p/ultrafire-m3-t60-xm-lt6-5-mode-1200-lumen-white-led-flashlight-black-1-x-18650-100157
Has anybody tried this light?
Have you tried LEDSupply.com yet? They have a fantastic selection of Carclo TIR optics and just about every LED you could want. It's where I get my TIR lenses. Here are their 26.5mm optics. I have only used their 20mm optics so far but Carclo is considered one of the best TIR lens makers.
Hmm, nice site. Doesn’t send to Turkey, though. Or the shipping is via courier. Anyway, I got one of that 26,5 mm optics from Cutter and some other 20mm, 35mm and 45mm too. the $14 shipping of Cutter was the best I could find.
which will give more throw & should be brighter
1>(Reflector)
http://www.dealextreme.com/p/sst-90-smooth-aluminum-reflector-7-3cm-diameter-47996
2>(Optics)
http://www.dealextreme.com/p/75mm-optical-glass-lens-for-flashlight-spot-light-43044
Actually want to know Optics vs Reflector
Plz update
That optic you reference from DealExtreme is not a TIR. It's an aspheric.
TIR Optics are very different.
If a TIR Optic is well manufactured, it will be more efficient than a reflector.
Carclo and LEDiL both make excellent optics - I've tested both. I could find no fault with the CarClo's, but for my particular application, the LEDiL optic was a better fit.
PPtk
P.S. I didn't look into distributors for Carclo - but I know that Mouser, Digikey, Newark and Cutter all carry the LEDiL products.
An aspheric optic will throw further than a reflector all other things being equal.
I've only ever used Carclo. What about the LEDiL made it a better fit?
Just they physical size - they happened to offer an optic that fit where I wanted it to.
PPtk
Thankx all for providing the useful info,as TIR optics are not that easily accessible for me,it is better to stick with aspherics.By reading post of gcbryan it seems aspherics are better thrower than reflector.I can think of two main drawbacks 1>Bulkyness 2>Square Led Image,one more thing is efficiany of the optic itself.
I ordered ledil tir optics from ledtech.de specially for xm-l. 26mm in diameter. I would like to swap it with my p60-reflector, then i became aware that the reflector bolted in the pill is the main heatsink and its diameter is larger than the pill. Somebody wrote he drilled out the reflector to make the tir fit. Do I need a special tir-pill to get proper fit and heatsinking?
On the topic of TIR’s, can you get one that’d fit a D Maglite?
Ledil makes EVA 35mm single optics, Cute-3 and Cute-4 35 mm triple and quad optics, and Rocket-3 and Rocket-4 50mm optics as well as others. Khatod and PolymerOptics are also makers of optics that can be found at Future Electronics
The tir optics I’ve use are not real throwers but do provide a very useful beam with a smooth spot and even spill.
Looking at diagrams, the optics is essentially the same as with a reflector and a small lens in the center. I have at least one old incandescent like that. The whole in the center refracts the light, making the reflecting shape deviate from a parabola, but the main difference is that TIR is really total for small angles, up to the TIR angle, and then drops off fast near perpendicular where the reflection is partial. So for the light emitted forward but still hitting the sides, it is more efficient, and for light emitted to the sides it is less efficient. It would not be practical without a silvered reflector with an incandescent bulb, because it would miss most of the light emitted backwards. Silvering the back part of the “lens” would appear to be a possible improvement.
Isn't it a "general rule of thumb" that a reflector looses 15%? Another general rule of thumb is that TIR optics also loose 15%, so they are about equal. How much does an Aspheric loose?
Carlco has to be about the most well known TIR Mfg. There are several out there. The different TIR optics I have tried from China seem to be no better or no worse than Carlco.
The big thing I see with TIR optics is that there is a hot spot, but the blend from spot to spill is so gradual that it all looks the same to me, where a reflector usually has a defined hot spot with less spill, (usually).
I have also found that using a TIR that is not made for the led, can have a dirty/blotchy appearance to the beam.
I have never seen a glass TIR. I would think it would be hard to focus/direct the light inside the TIR with glass versus plastic.