So what is the difference from the standpoint of the government between the banning of production and the banning of consumption?
Since you feel this infringes upon your rights, what have you done within the democratic process to protect your rights as you perceive them? This has been coming for many years, so I hope you've done more than complain anonymously after the fact on an internet forum. This has also given you plenty of time to stockpile bulbs as well. A small amount of space and money would have allowed you to keep using these bulbs for many years, which is as legal as it's always been. I already presented another possible alternative.
So if I don't exhaust all possible avenues to protect my rights, then I just need to shut up and take it? And the democratic process was never meant to allow one group to violate the rights of others.
If you do nothing, then you've already shut up and allowed others to decide what your rights are. That's democracy in action, even if you happen to be inactive.
no one has taken my rights.
they are inalienable.
they’ve violated them.
the fact that there are too many people in the world for ANY sustainable energy policy will not be resolved by banning incandescent bulbs (or any other regulation, imho) - and it does not change the fact that I have every right to produce those bulbs.
The majority has the MIGHT to punish me for doing so - not the right.
oh well……incandescent bulbs suck.
I really don’t see why people get so up in arms about stuff like this. The ability to buy a certain type of bulb or not isn’t an inalienable right. Things like equal justice irrespective of colour/ sex/ orientation or right to protection against arbitrary arrest or enslavement (Universal Declaration of Human Rights | United Nations). Those things are inalienable rights and they’re being violated all over the place, including in first world places like the US. I would have thought ones energy would be spent more wisely on protesting those violations as opposed to this light vs. that light.
Besides, we live in a society. It has benefits (like security, access to health etc) and downsides (laws we don’t like much, such as not being able to shoot M&Ms at your neighbour’s cat that keeps crapping in your yard). Lots of things are in place for the “greater good” even if they may piss off a minority. Inefficiencies in lighting are one of the major low hanging fruits of reducing energy consumption, in terms of energy saved per $ spent (solar and on-shore wind are at the other end of the spectrum), so getting rid of incandescent bulbs should reduce energy consumption, improve air quality and increase energy “independence”, all good things irrespective of your political leaning. People are also very resistant to doing things that benefit them, like quitting smoking or saving for retirement, hence laws like this. Do you think that any car company would have voluntarily produced all their cars with seat belts, air bags, ABS or traction control? No they wouldn’t, which is why we had to have laws to make them.
But what business does the government have regulating what light bulbs we can or can't have? Yes, in the grand scheme of things it really doesn't matter much. Just because it's a "good idea" doesn't mean the government gets to wave their guns around (government = force). If I want to pay higher energy costs by using incandescents, so what? Why should your neighbors or your elected officials give a damn? To go one step futher, why should the government be involved in energy at all? If resources get scarce, the market will make corrections.
And it is a slippery slope whether you realize it or not (one we slid down over 100 years ago). The government has the power to regulate or ban any product it wishes all because of so-called "interstate commerce". It's scary.
the same right that is has to ban leaded petrol/ gas or a variety of drugs or artillery or a whole range of things. We’re not a collection of individuals whose actions have no effect on others, we’re part of a society. I know that the USA was founded on this idea of everyone being an individual, but the reality hasn’t been anything approaching that for 100s of years. I’m sorry that people that like incandescent bulbs won’t be able to get them easily, like I’m sorry that owners of old cars can’t get leaded petrol, but just like leaded petrol there are work arounds available.
it sounds like your argument is.
just stfu, and do what gvmnt tells you to, you are too dumb to know what is good for you, or what you need.
you do realise, legestlations written by people that have other interest in their mind than you, or your quality of life.
excellent post Sir. We are the minority on BLF, so don’t even bother to inform them. They would agree with a cop killing you for illegally parking, “because hey what if someone else needed to park there!? And it’s the law that’s a no parking spot, so you must die if you oppose the law!” They won’t get it until they themselves are killed (or wife-mother-brother) and then they Find out the cop gets a paid vacation for killing you, and gets his job back because you “resisted.” Over a parking spot. And if you show them video of it happening, they’ll say it was his fault.
And here on BLF, without video evidence, you’ll be called a crackpot tin foil hat wearing idiot for pointing out the obvious before it happens. I suspect mmost of them are government workers or retirees that shall not bite the hand that feeds.
I’m sorry that you read it that way. If you take the time to read the rest of my posts on this thread, you will see it in its proper context.
That’s what I was thinking, or to put it another way, ‘white people problems’.
White people problems are things that are not really problems at all. It’s stuff that people who have less wouldn’t ever even face in day to day life. I was hanging out with some very white people (I’m white but I try not to be a total white guy), and they were all passionate and up in arms about Genetically modified food. Then the topic got to global warming and other topics that white people seem to care way too much about. I couldn’t help but feel that because upper middle class white people don’t really have any problems, they still feel the need to fight against something and be outraged.
It’s good to be white and have enough money to feel somewhat secure but I haven’t forgot where I came from. I’ve had non-white people problems in my life so I don’t get too upset when I am confronted with a white person problem. I save my outrage for things that really matter.
If you don’t like the Gov making rules and telling you what to do, live in Somalia. They have very little government regulations and you can buy any light bulb you want. I guarantee you they haven’t banned Incan bulbs over there.
This country has turned into one big open-air prison camp. I mean, you can't even dump used motor oil over the fence into your neighbor's yard anymore (where else are you supposed to put it?!), and just like 1930s Germany, once you start down that slippery slope it's no time at all before it's illegal to pee standing up and everyone will be forced to gay-marry an abortion doctor!
"First they came for the lightbulbs, but I did not speak up, because I am not a lightbub..."
the motto of anybody that just stands by and lets it happen!
“First they came for the lightbulbs, but I did not speak up, because I am not very bright…”
That's an issue of property rights, which has nothing to do with banning lightbulbs.
This is all too true these days. I just want to go back to the good old days when I could burn all my garbage instead of dragging it all the way to the curb. And don’t even get me started on “recycling” :Sp . Sorry guys but you don’t have an “inalienable right” to suck all the electricity that your heart desires. If you are too myopic to see that your actions are polluting the planet then I guess it is the governments job to stop you. Its a shame that grown people can’t make good decisions on their own. But on the bright side, you do get to keep your guns.
You must have been very sad when they removed lead from gasoline.
And BTW, I’m for small gov’t too. I think it was dreadful what the executive and judicial branches of our (USA) gov’t subjected the Schiavo family to. Oh, wait… That was for their own good…
I know I was. That stuff cushioned the valves so well. I also miss my asbestos brake pads that stopped on a dime and my ice cold R12 air conditioning. :bigsmile:
I guess people did not read the article. You all seem to be missing the real issue.
The real issue is the gov misleading the public to help big corporations earn higher profits.
from the article:
“The biggest lightbulb manufacturers — General Electric, Philips, Sylvania — also lobbied hard for the rules. As Andrew Rice reported for The New York Times Magazine in 2011, these companies had long lamented the fact that the cheap old incandescent bulbs weren’t very profitable to make. And Philips, in particular, had been investing in efficient new LEDs and fluorescents in response to tightening standards in California and abroad. Yet consumers in the rest of the United States didn’t seem very interested — unless, that is, there were regulations to force the transition.”
How exactly did the government “mislead the public”. The bulbs are more efficient and therefore save energy. Of course they cost more, they are new technology and use more materials. Nobody ever denied they had a greater initial cost.