Imalent MS18 - 100k flashlight ?

[JasonWW]

@BlueSwordM

Well, I think it doesn’t look actually that good.

Pushing 100000 lumens out of 18x XHP70.2 means the LEDs must output at least 5600 lumens.

With an optical efficiency of say, 90%, that would mean each LED would have to output 6250 lumens.

It’s obvious it’s not going to sustain 1200W of output.

90% optical efficiency is quite generous. Reflectors can vary quite a bit, but I would go with 80%. So each raw emitter would need to put out 6,900 lumen.

Looking at Kof3’s P2 bin 70.2 data, if we are generous and use turn on lumens at 25°C, not at 85°C, it takes 11 amps at 6.7v. That’s 74 watts per led. Then we get 1332 watts total.

If we use the output at 85°C that’s 1590 watts total.

I’ve seen the Samsung 30T run at 48A-50A which at about 4v is 200 watt. 8 of those do 1600 watts.

So battery wise, maybe they can do it, but briefly. IDK, they may be using a lesser battery. I would always go with 12 cells for a 100k lumen light.

I can only guess Imalent is going for an instant turn on of 100k lumen. I don’t see a way it can be sustainable for anytime. I would wager the output is not very close to rated.

I wonder what type of driver they are using?

[mortuus]

I would be scared holding a mini furnace in hand knowing it puts out 1300watts of power, who knows what can happen knowing imalents history…?

[mattadores]

@JasonWW

@mattadores

@Scallywag

Has anyone done that comparison, of thermally stable lumen output between a bunch of big lights?

I can vouch that although the lumen monsters are indeed hot rods, my DX80 on the 5000 lumen med-high setting doesn’t appear to drop output for at least 45-60 minutes (ambient temperature effected). the 13 000 high setting drops to 5000 after about 15-20 minutes

I’ve collected data on some of the biggest non-actively cooled lights around to see who has the highest sustainable output. The DX80 is the best at 6,000 lumen.

@JasonWW

Okay, I talked to Maiden666 who did some really good tests on the Imalent DX80.

According to him, the DX80 can be turned on in Med-Hi mode for 6,000 lumen in a 25°C/77°F room with no fan and it will maintain that output until the batteries drain. This beats the Acebeam X65 that does 5,300 lumen under the same circumstances.

If we add a fan to circulate air around the DX80, it can maintain 7,000 lumen. You have to first turn it on at a higher level and then let it step down, though.

If we look at his chart, we can see that both Turbo and Hi will step down to 7,000 lumen. Turbo will maintain 7,000 with no fan for about 17 minutes then the temperature hits 65°C/149°F and Maiden666 turned on the fan. From Hi it lasted about 32 minutes before he turned on the fan. (the red and green triangles in the chart is where he turned on the fan)

I’m not sure what would happen if he had not turned on the fan. Maybe output would have dropped to 6,000 lumen?

Thank you very much! do you by chance have a thread where you’ve compiled your findings?

I long suspected that my DX80 wasn’t reducing output on the med setting

[mhanlen]

@JasonWW

@BlueSwordM

Well, I think it doesn’t look actually that good.

Pushing 100000 lumens out of 18x XHP70.2 means the LEDs must output at least 5600 lumens.

With an optical efficiency of say, 90%, that would mean each LED would have to output 6250 lumens.

It’s obvious it’s not going to sustain 1200W of output.

90% optical efficiency is quite generous. Reflectors can vary quite a bit, but I would go with 80%. So each raw emitter would need to put out 6,900 lumen.

Looking at Kof3’s P2 bin 70.2 data, if we are generous and use turn on lumens at 25°C, not at 85°C, it takes 11 amps at 6.7v. That’s 74 watts per led. Then we get 1332 watts total.

If we use the output at 85°C that’s 1590 watts total.

I’ve seen the Samsung 30T run at 48A-50A which at about 4v is 200 watt. 8 of those do 1600 watts.

So battery wise, maybe they can do it, but briefly. IDK, they may be using a lesser battery. I would always go with 12 cells for a 100k lumen light.

I can only guess Imalent is going for an instant turn on of 100k lumen. I don’t see a way it can be sustainable for anytime. I would wager the output is not very close to rated.

I wonder what type of driver they are using?

The x70 I tested can pump out about 7100 lumens for 2 hours or so. At least that’s what I tested- that’s with cooling though.

[mattadores]

@mhanlen

@JasonWW

@BlueSwordM

Well, I think it doesn’t look actually that good.

Pushing 100000 lumens out of 18x XHP70.2 means the LEDs must output at least 5600 lumens.

With an optical efficiency of say, 90%, that would mean each LED would have to output 6250 lumens.

It’s obvious it’s not going to sustain 1200W of output.

90% optical efficiency is quite generous. Reflectors can vary quite a bit, but I would go with 80%. So each raw emitter would need to put out 6,900 lumen.

Looking at Kof3’s P2 bin 70.2 data, if we are generous and use turn on lumens at 25°C, not at 85°C, it takes 11 amps at 6.7v. That’s 74 watts per led. Then we get 1332 watts total.

If we use the output at 85°C that’s 1590 watts total.

I’ve seen the Samsung 30T run at 48A-50A which at about 4v is 200 watt. 8 of those do 1600 watts.

So battery wise, maybe they can do it, but briefly. IDK, they may be using a lesser battery. I would always go with 12 cells for a 100k lumen light.

I can only guess Imalent is going for an instant turn on of 100k lumen. I don’t see a way it can be sustainable for anytime. I would wager the output is not very close to rated.

I wonder what type of driver they are using?

The x70 I tested can pump out about 7100 lumens for 2 hours or so. At least that’s what I tested- that’s with cooling though.

That’s actually underwhelming don’t you think in comparison to the DX80? no fan, an initial turn on of 13 000 which drops to 7000 which maintains for 85 minutes.

I would’ve thought the much bigger host of the X70 and it’s separate fan would be able to do more than 7100

[JasonWW]

@mattadores

Thank you very much! do you by chance have a thread where you’ve compiled your findings?

It was something I got interested in while talking about lights in my Active Cooling thread. I guess posts 34 to 40.

List of Actively Cooled Lights

It’s for people who need high output for long times. The MF01 for instance can do 12k lumen, but only for a few minutes. I can’t remember what it’s top sustained output is, maybe 3k to 4k lumen? The top dog, I believe, at the moment is the giant Acebeam X65, which can do a sustained 6,000 lumen with no active cooling. That’s impressive, but it’s pricey at $574. That’s currently the limit for non fan cooled sustained output. For those folks that do search and rescue or police, you might need …

I tried to find the biggest lights I could because size/surface area matters in shedding heat. Then studied reviews of them.

[JasonWW]

@mattadores

That’s actually underwhelming don’t you think in comparison to the DX80? no fan, an initial turn on of 13 000 which drops to 7000 which maintains for 85 minutes.

Not 85 minutes, only 32 minutes. The temperature got really hot and a fan was turned on to blow air across it.

So it’s about 6,000 lumen that was fully sustainable (with no air blowing across it).

Outside on a 23°C day where there is a breeze it might do 7,000 continous. I didn’t count this, though.

[LouieAtienza]

@mattadores

The x70 I tested can pump out about 7100 lumens for 2 hours or so. At least that’s what I tested- that’s with cooling though.

That’s actually underwhelming don’t you think in comparison to the DX80? no fan, an initial turn on of 13 000 which drops to 7000 which maintains for 85 minutes.

I would’ve thought the much bigger host of the X70 and it’s separate fan would be able to do more than 7100

While it likely helps, I don’t think the blower fan AceBeam uses is the most efficient configuration of getting cool air over the fins…

[mattadores]

@JasonWW

@mattadores

That’s actually underwhelming don’t you think in comparison to the DX80? no fan, an initial turn on of 13 000 which drops to 7000 which maintains for 85 minutes.

Not 85 minutes, only 32 minutes. The temperature got really hot and a fan was turned on to blow air across it.

So it’s about 6,000 lumen that was fully sustainable (with no air blowing across it).

Outside on a 23°C day where there is a breeze it might do 7,000 continous. I didn’t count this, though.

lol :person_facepalming: sometimes I read things thoroughly… sometimes I don’t

[mhanlen]

@mattadores

@mhanlen

@JasonWW

@BlueSwordM

Well, I think it doesn’t look actually that good.

Pushing 100000 lumens out of 18x XHP70.2 means the LEDs must output at least 5600 lumens.

With an optical efficiency of say, 90%, that would mean each LED would have to output 6250 lumens.

It’s obvious it’s not going to sustain 1200W of output.

90% optical efficiency is quite generous. Reflectors can vary quite a bit, but I would go with 80%. So each raw emitter would need to put out 6,900 lumen.

Looking at Kof3’s P2 bin 70.2 data, if we are generous and use turn on lumens at 25°C, not at 85°C, it takes 11 amps at 6.7v. That’s 74 watts per led. Then we get 1332 watts total.

If we use the output at 85°C that’s 1590 watts total.

I’ve seen the Samsung 30T run at 48A-50A which at about 4v is 200 watt. 8 of those do 1600 watts.

So battery wise, maybe they can do it, but briefly. IDK, they may be using a lesser battery. I would always go with 12 cells for a 100k lumen light.

I can only guess Imalent is going for an instant turn on of 100k lumen. I don’t see a way it can be sustainable for anytime. I would wager the output is not very close to rated.

I wonder what type of driver they are using?

The x70 I tested can pump out about 7100 lumens for 2 hours or so. At least that’s what I tested- that’s with cooling though.

That’s actually underwhelming don’t you think in comparison to the DX80? no fan, an initial turn on of 13 000 which drops to 7000 which maintains for 85 minutes.

I would’ve thought the much bigger host of the X70 and it’s separate fan would be able to do more than 7100

No I don’t think it’s underwheling at all. I was only referring to one mode on the light that maintains a 7k lumen brightness for 2 hours. If you watched my review- you’ll know that I tested quite a few modes, and some even maintain a higher brightness than this- but with some fluctuation in brightness. My X70 out of all my lights, maintains higher brightnesses on more modes than any other light I own.

Now of course we all have different methods of measuring brightness, and mine can’t be taken as any sort of standard… but it’s still can pump out more for longer than my DX80 relatively speaking.

Acebeam X70: A Review of the Brightest LED Flashight in the Universe. Compared to the Imalent DX80

As far as the efficiency of the fan… can it be better? Sure. So can other lights too. My main point being- no the X70 is not underwhelming. It’s not perfect, but it’s impressive.

[klrman]

@mortuus

I would be scared holding a mini furnace in hand knowing it puts out 1300watts of power, who knows what can happen knowing imalents history…?

[Enderman]

@JasonWW

@BlueSwordM

Well, I think it doesn’t look actually that good.

Pushing 100000 lumens out of 18x XHP70.2 means the LEDs must output at least 5600 lumens.

With an optical efficiency of say, 90%, that would mean each LED would have to output 6250 lumens.

It’s obvious it’s not going to sustain 1200W of output.

90% optical efficiency is quite generous. Reflectors can vary quite a bit, but I would go with 80%. So each raw emitter would need to put out 6,900 lumen.

Looking at Kof3’s P2 bin 70.2 data, if we are generous and use turn on lumens at 25°C, not at 85°C, it takes 11 amps at 6.7v. That’s 74 watts per led. Then we get 1332 watts total.

If we use the output at 85°C that’s 1590 watts total.

I’ve seen the Samsung 30T run at 48A-50A which at about 4v is 200 watt. 8 of those do 1600 watts.

So battery wise, maybe they can do it, but briefly. IDK, they may be using a lesser battery. I would always go with 12 cells for a 100k lumen light.

I can only guess Imalent is going for an instant turn on of 100k lumen. I don’t see a way it can be sustainable for anytime. I would wager the output is not very close to rated.

I wonder what type of driver they are using?

With those shallow reflectors only 50% or less of the LED’s light is actually hitting the reflector.
The rest just comes straight from the LED and only loses a few percent due to the front glass lens.

[LouieAtienza]

@Enderman

With those shallow reflectors only 50% or less of the LED’s light is actually hitting the reflector.
The rest just comes straight from the LED and only loses a few percent due to the front glass lens.

Wouldn’t the amount of light exiting the front of the reflector be more dependent on the total angle of said “spill” light (which would be controlled somewhat by the ratio of the height to the width of the reflector) rather than just solely the reflector height? Of course since the LES is a lot larger in proportion to the reflector, the actual angle of spill light will be a lot larger than implied by the reflector shape…

[mattadores]

@mhanlen

No I don’t think it’s underwheling at all. I was only referring to one mode on the light that maintains a 7k lumen brightness for 2 hours. If you watched my review- you’ll know that I tested quite a few modes, and some even maintain a higher brightness than this- but with some fluctuation in brightness. My X70 out of all my lights, maintains higher brightnesses on more modes than any other light I own.

Now of course we all have different methods of measuring brightness, and mine can’t be taken as any sort of standard… but it’s still can pump out more for longer than my DX80 relatively speaking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwQZNLaMjXw

As far as the efficiency of the fan… can it be better? Sure. So can other lights too. My main point being- no the X70 is not underwhelming. It’s not perfect, but it’s impressive.

Haven’t watched you review yet but I will! Glad to see someone who takes the time to make them. lol I frequently pump myself up about making a review and thinking of the shooting locations and and and then I just get distracted like a rabbit and forget till the next fleeting ambitious moment! :person_facepalming:

I agree that the X70 is an allstar in almost every way. I’m just surprised it can’t sustain at least 10k lumens until batteries exhaust.

There’s already an actively cooled specialist light that claims it can do 10 500 lumens sustained until the batteries die

[Enderman]

@LouieAtienza

Wouldn’t the amount of light exiting the front of the reflector be more dependent on the total angle of said “spill” light (which would be controlled somewhat by the ratio of the height to the width of the reflector) rather than just solely the reflector height? Of course since the LES is a lot larger in proportion to the reflector, the actual angle of spill light will be a lot larger than implied by the reflector shape…

Shallow based on a constant diameter.

[mortuus]

Im suprised that much power imalent havent thought of adding proximity sensors to make the light stepdown when getting to close an object, a great feature the olight x9r has , it even remembers the highest mode 25klumens lol.

I still feel a light that does 30k continous 5-10m is more impressive then highest mode 30sec this light will do or something… we should demand longer continous highest output, not short bursts mode…

[KawiBoy1428]

@mortuus

Im suprised that much power imalent havent thought of adding proximity sensors to make the light stepdown when getting to close an object, a great feature the olight x9r has , it even remembers the highest mode 25klumens lol.

I still feel a light that does 30k continous 5-10m is more impressive then highest mode 30sec this light will do or something… we should demand longer continous highest output, not short bursts mode..

Haha now that is funny! Demand….by not buying….

[KawiBoy1428]

@JasonWW

@KawiBoy1428

Haha now that is funny! Demand….by not buying….

Huh? That’s how it works. It’s the basis of boycotts, strikes, shutdowns, etc…

Yep that’s why and what I posted, it beats demanding by writing letters or e-mails.

[JasonWW]

Ah, when you said it’s funny, I thought you meant ironic. Now I understand.

[LouieAtienza]

@mortuus

… we should demand longer continous highest output, not short bursts mode…

Yeah, right. Dear Imaalent, we DEMAND that you defy the laws of thermodynamics and electricity, and give us 100k lumens in a package that can barely dissipate 100W efficiently.

Like I mentioned earlier, enough yo-yos wil buy this to make up for the boycotters just because they see 6-figure lumen output. But to me, if they could maintain even 15k lumens and advertise it as a 15k lumens light with a 100k turbo it would be really cool.

The thing is they’re giving people what they want - 100k lumens in a familiar form factor. If only for a few seconds. If they made the head 10X thesize it is now, and uses 2 e-bike batteries maybe you’d get what you want in terms of output and run time, but you’d have a hernia luggging it around. They design th light as such because that’s what people expect and want to see.