Interesting Thrower: DEFT EDC

LED Flashlights – General Info
1

I just saw this :

https://omglumens.com/DEFT-edc.php

Obviously it's not a budget light :) but it's interesting never the less. I haven't seen a review of it yet but I'm curious as to how much further it throws than something I could (and have) come up with.

By that I mean, I know it is much better that what I've done but anyone who takes a brighter emitter and an aspheric lens and puts the two together in a certain size range will get decent throw.

The DEFT EDC will get much better throw due to overdriving the emitter and much better heatsinking, etc. It's selling for $199 I think. If you take a P60 host and a 28mm aspheric and use a XR-E R2 (they are using XP-C Q4) you can do it for let us say $30.

I'm wondering how much further the throw is when you do everything right (DEFT EDC) vs doing it the easy way. If you get throw of 300 feet one way and 400 feet the other way it's worth it to some (not me however). If it's 300 feet the easy way and 900 feet the best way then it's worth it perhaps if you can afford the money for such a specialty light.

I think I saw that is was supposed to output about 40,000 lux at one meter. I'm trying to think of some similar known numbers from throwers that have been rated in the past. I have a HS-802 and also made a 30 mm aspheric however mine was driven at 700mA and the EDC is a XP-C driven at 1.4A.

I thought I remembered seeing some figures that the HS-802 could be in the 30,000 lux range. Since an aspheric is more efficient but mine had a smaller diameter then maybe it would be logical to assume upper 20k at least?

So perhaps we are talking about the premium for doing it the very best way over the way anyone could do it without even having to solder might be 10k lux?

So does this mean it would throw 25% further than the cheap version or 50% further given the squaring law that applies here. Where is Dr. Jones when you need him :) Optical math is not my strength.

Anyone who can clear this up please step forward :)

All I'm really trying to do is compare the new thrower with known existing throwers of the past and in particular one's that I own so that I get a good idea of how much improvement one can get just by using the best technology.

The interesting thing with the EDC is that it's not getting throw by using a reflector that's larger than a P60 style light would use.

2

[quote=gcbryan]

If you take a P60 host and a 28mm aspheric and use a XR-E R2 (they are using XP-C Q4) you can do it for let us say $30.

[/quote]

I managed to do it for $15.

http://www.dealextreme.com/p/ultrafire-wf-501b-cree-r2-wc-250-lumen-led-flashlight-black-1-18650-2-cr123a-16240

and http://www.dealextreme.com/p/glass-optics-for-flashlights-28mm-5297

And it throws like crazy.

3

Nice, how much lux are you getting?

4

Not a clue..sorry (No instrument)....But it's plenty enough to 'pin' a wallaby or rabbit at ~100 metres. (It's used as a weapon light on my 22WMR).

5

So this is a sky ray with a big heatsink for $200????

With twice the intensity, it would throw the square root of 2 times further - a factor of about 1.4 . This is only if it works as a point source.

6

wow - $8 skyray, $2 lens, $16 drop in

and they are charging how much?

I am in the wrong line of work.

7

I see I'm not the only one who sees it as a Skyray with nothing more than a copper pill and one of the least expensive Cree emitters available.

Also, I got a kick out of them bragging about lighting up something 700ft away. 700ft is only 200+yds. 300 yds is the minimum standard of distance when measuring throwers. Not really impressive to anyone who is familiar with throwers, especially for $200!! I think my little ol' Sipik Sk68 will do that.

I had to chuckle when I read you comparing it to a cheaply rigged version using a P60 host and an aspheric lens...that's exactly what they did! If they got that out of it then you can do exactly the same for under $20.

8

I'm with you guys. I almost said something over there but I figured I'd get jumped on or my post deleted.

9

I didn’t get the impression from the copy or the pics that this was a zoom-to-throw light. I think it’s a regular SkyRay P60 host with fixed throw mode. The “zoomed in” pics in that site referred, I think, to the photo being zoomed in so you could how well it lit the garage in the distance. At least that’s my take on it.

Who wants to cough up $199 to be a guinea pig?? Anyone? Bueller?? No takers???

10

To be fair (hey, I try sometimes) there are more details on what was involved over at CPF. It's not really just a Skyray with a drop-in and an aspheric.

This is done by the maker of the original DEFT where everything that can be tweaked is :)

They are using the Skyray just because they are partnering with that company (I think). In any even they are just using it as a host in a EDC size. They scrapped the insides. It doesn't use drop-ins anymore. It has a machined press-fit disc of copper. The XP-C once it came out in Q4 bin (which apparently was not the case when if first came out) due to it's smaller size (than the XR-E or XP-E) makes it currently the emitter with the highest surface brightness. It is then overdriven to 1.4A.

The aspheric is made by DEFT just for this model. The lens is coated, etc, etc.

I'm sure there is a lot of work and customization involved and he probably doesn't make a lot of money at $199 just because it's hard to make money hand making flashlights :)

I disagree that one doesn't start considering a light a thrower (in the EDC size) unless it throws 300 yards and I doubt the Sipik does either. Again I guess it depends on what you call throw and the conditions under which you do it.

My aspheric which is a little bigger than the DEFT EDC throws at least 300 feet under suburban light pollution conditions as measured as easily viewable spot against large trees against a less than black sky. If I was out in the country on a pitch black night shinning it at a white painted barn I'm sure it would do more...but not 900 feet (I don't think). Shinning it at street signs with reflective coating doesn't count :)

I'm think that the EDC is probably a nice thrower but that the premium and all the work that they've done probably doesn't translate into a great difference in throw over a cheaper and easier to make version just due to the physics involved.

That was my thought in starting this thread anyway.

11

In any case if anyone just wants to try it they can get the $15 ebay/ultraok light Be-Seen Triker linked which even zooms, or a $2 lens for their existing p60 host if they're really cheap. It's ok, but not all it's cracked up to be on that page.

12

I can agree with all of this. I'm sure a lot of hard work went into this flashlight and it's pushing the boundaries of what can be done with a lens in this size. However, the real difference would be quite small compared to the increase in cost. If I really needed the extra bit of throw, I could just tape two budget versions together to get the same effect. :p

Another problem is that there's no standard for 'throw distance', which depends heavily on ambient light, and lux @ 1 metre is not a good measure of throw (lux at 5 or 10 metres would be far more acceptable)

13

It does make it look a little more "special" than it is.

Regarding the $2 lens. That's the first approach I took. I like a P60 with reflector blacked out and that lens much more than the flood-to-throw lights (which I just never liked although I did buy one).

14

There's this http://www.cpfwiki.com/Wiki/index.php/ANSI/NEMA_FL-1

15

Sorry, I should have said there are no useful standards for 'throw distance'. Presumably the ANSI standard for 'beam distance' was heavily influenced by some terrible company, probably starting with 'LED' and ending with 'Lenser'.

16

The only thing that is really interesting (to me) is that at least the focus is on improving throw in lights that one might actually carry :)

I'm not all that interested in ultimate throw when the head diameter gets to a certain point or when the body (batteries) gets too large.


I'm always interested in seeing the best you can do in the 1 AA format. Most people comment that I should get another type of light :) Or lecture on how one produces throw and that a 1 AA light isn't a real thrower :) I know what throw is and what determines it and would like to see a small light that throws as well as a small light can :)

17

It does not have Type III anodisation. Tongue out

But like with everything else nowadays, the bottomline always is......$$$

Anyway can it outthrow the Dereelight DBS V3 aspheric? Its 78 bucks shipped with registered mail, just that the head is a little bigger. heh heh....

18

The problem occurs when someone tries to make their hobby a business without being business like :) People think "I made 20 flashlights last time and sold them for $200 and lost money so this time I need to sell them for $300".

Instead, they need to quit reinventing the wheel and making everything by hand and do the research and development on their own dime and then efficiently manufacture the product and sell if for $100 and they'll make more money if they've gotten the product right and there is a market for it.

There are only so many people that are going to pay $300. Or in this case $199 for a P60 sized light.

If I make one easy to make and not so good light if I charge what it took to make that one light no one would buy it. But because it is a hobby and was fun to do the research and trail and error work I would do it anyway. If I planned on repeating this however I'd have to get the costs down because no one is going to pay me big bucks for enjoying my hobby :)

It's kind of like gold plated toilet seats. There is a limited market and you aren't going to get rich selling these regardless of how high the price is.

Sell thousands of inexpensive toilet seats and you might be the next Bill Gates :)

19

I agree, this also happens in the photography business as well. A lot of failures.

20

Yep, my lowly NF-X8455 1x14500 XR-E zoomie is visible off a street sign at what Google Maps tells me is between 500 and 550 meters (~1600 feet).