Lovely :).
< This is Nói,15 weeks old.
I think it’s already entered mainstream, at least a little bit, if we can use its presence in many lights available on Amazon now as a yardstick. This is dominated by just a couple manufacturers of course and they are a small piece of the pie in the big picture.
Everyone that I have shown the basic features to along with nice non-angry-white emitters has absolutely loved them and I helped several choose a light to buy. The basic interface with ramping is what people love the most (myself as well). Moon and turbo also impressed but most people are happy with a simple range to choose from (“I just want light when I need light…”). People don’t appreciate the battery check until they learn about lithium cells and charging. Indicator and aux lights impress but not many feel like they need them.
I think Anduril versions out of the box suit most people just fine and are very usable. The issues come when people have trouble understanding the complex navigation in using a single button instruction for choosing flowchart options in the menus. I think this may be harder for some as we have two generations now that are used to graphical interfaces and simple UI choices…the move back to an analog-type instruction with only light blinks as a visual prompt seems difficult to grasp until you get familiar with it. Certain amount of linear analytical thinking goes into that setup at inception, and many brains don’t slide along that path as easily (which we have seen since computers and programs got their start, and which is why GUIs were developed).
The other problem is when people or situations just start randomly pressing and holding the button. And then they’re sometimes faced with a “broken” light and/or have to deep dive into the interface to learn how to do a factory reset or change settings, etc.
I really like Sofirn’s ramping firmware that they’ve had for years now, and I really thought NarsilM was good, too. Both can suffer from some of the same issues but they are much simpler for people to understand and configure. If Simon will fix the ramping algorithm on his firmware, it could be closer to the ideal mass market choice.
I’ve wondered whether two buttons or something would be better for mass market folks. One that just works the light levels and can’t do programming interface, and then another (perhaps physically protected) button that you can do the nitty gritty with, if desired. Or maybe rather than a second normal switch button, maybe a recessed switch with a small access hole that you would use a pen point or whatever to activate/communicate via that switch button.
Anduril is such an accomplishment. It’s been a surprise over the years to see how many people are dissatisfied with it due to its (potential) complexity. The beauty of it is that the complexity isn’t really needed for most users to actually use the lights it’s installed in.
Maybe a PC/phone connected cable to software is a better approach? Some lights did that many years ago, was a pretty neat development that seems to have died. It would bring the easy to digest GUI back to the forefront and remove most of the abstract nature of what we do now. But then someone has to $$ develop and maintain that software and I could see companies shunning the idea of open source/compatibility there.
How are Lumintop and Sofirn lights not considered mass market? I would argue that they are, especially in the US where you can find them recommended or near the top of any flashlight search done on Amazon.
Unless you mean when will an Anduril light be found at the local supermarket. If any company used them not sure why but I feel like Energizer would be the most likely to adopt it first. They seem right on the cusp of deciding to enter the proper flashlight game.
mcflies has an excellent point. “Mainstream” may constitute different genre in different markets, geopolitical or cultural regions. BLF is a pretty diverse dichotomy as it relates to all those references. The finite number of manufacturers producing stock Anduril enhanced lights is primarily limited to China. Whether or not that equates to “mainstream” is predominantly a function of availability on the general market. The Wal-Mart’s of the world will continue to stock products that can maximize margins and minimize risk, while the independent distributors and dealers will maintain distribution relationships with tried and trusted manufacturers and pass cost volatility on to the end consumer. Many here have mentioned the complexities of introducing Anduril to the open market. Not sure about elsewhere in the world, but in the US, liability is assuredly the biggest issue. Retailers don’t want the hassle. That’s my take on the issue.
Is Anduril ever going to be “mass market”?
No, too complicated for 95% of flashlight users.
on/off/low/med/high - maybe turbo. Thats all most people want.
Nope, it is a flashlight equivalent of a stick shift, only fraction of a percent of people can drive one.
now that i think about it, it is only true about usa. the rest of the world drives it just fine.
In New Zealand, Sofirn is unheard of. I stopped stocking them in my store because they were too hard to sell, even at cost price. If it’s a brand they’re not familiar with, they want it dirt cheap otherwise it’s not worth the risk.
I refused to stock any Anduril based model because they were too hard to sell, those that purchased them weren’t very happy. One customer said the Fireflies ROT66 was his most hated model due to the UI.
Simple UI in V2 is okay, but only if it doesn’t require thermal calibration.
Yes, the return rate would be through the roof.
I have the TS10 as an example- it’s a great light BUT how do I get the ‘latest’ version of the UI? Oh, I’m sure some are gonna say ‘get a flash kit and DIY’ but that isn’t the way to mass market. I look forward to when Anduril can be updated as easily as updating the iOS in my phone.
Too complicated.
Even for me, I would just mainly use hold for moonlight, double press for turbo, triple press for strobe kinda thing
I doubt it, too compicated for the masses I think.
Honestly, you could say that about any model from any brand that improves the UI with a new version. The great thing about having accessible flashing pads is to give that option, isn’t it, you’re not stuck with what’s on it when you purchased it.
No mainstream brand provides updates.
I feel like “Simple Mode by default” is the mass market version of Andúril (specifically, Andúril 2). It’s straightforward enough my mother’s gotten along fine with it. Simple Mode plus USB charging is pretty hard to mess up, the biggest confusion might be lockout mode (which can be cleared by disconnecting the battery).
It’s a slow growth, we’re nowhere near “Linux on the server” levels of widespread use, but to me it feels more widely available than it was a mere 2 years ago.
Others here likely have more insight on the actual flashlight market - I’m still fairly new to this space. I don’t know if some companies are still adapting to the concept of open source firmware - it sounds like ToyKeeper already deals with many GPL misunderstandings.
As to the remark on Compiz, I loved that and I still use wobbly windows, from 2007 to 2022 present day - I’m just now using KDE with Kwin’s implementation. I think part of what killed Compiz is the ongoing Linux transition to the Wayland protocol, as Compiz was built with X11/Xorg underpinnings.
Could your mother handle thermal calibration without any input from you?
The Attiny1616 seems to be accurate out of the box, but anything that doesn’t have this requires calibration.
The default 45°C limit needs to still be adjusted and is a pain in the butt to start having to guide customers how it’s done. I run a flashlight business and trust me, it’s something you don’t want. I’d want Advanced UI entirely blocked because of the stupid questions I get my way for those completely lost in the settings. I currently refuse to sell Anduril models
Those of a certain age will remember VCRs, which resulted in a phenomenon known as the Blinking Twelve Problem.
Inhabiting the echo chambers like this, and r/flashlight, can blind one to the fact that the vast majority of users have no need, or desire, for what Anduril provides.
And given the relative lack of effort that some manufacturers put into implementing Anduril, an argument can be made that it’s more effective as a marketing tool to sell more lights to nerds, rather than something to genuinely push technology forward.
Doing the bare minimum to implement the software in product, relying on the community, rather than in-house developers to fix bugs, and not returning contributions to the source is not the ideal model of an FOSS participant, or project.
No
The Ants On A Melon RGB Critter is capable of firmware updates via USB. It’s a specialist flashlight brand, but forward thinking in design.
That’s why Sofirn and Wurkkos are moving away from the T85 and are updating their model with the T1616. Though the others are still stuck on the T85/1634.
Why does the temperature limit need to be adjusted ? it’s not usually adjustable on flashlights.
45°C is often too low compared to many other brands. The Wurkkos TS10 dropped to just 50 lumens on any level, whereas raising the limit to 55°C increased the output to 200+ lumens and never exceeded 50°C at the body.
I responded to the 1Lumen review and mentioned that it could hold a higher output. Their argument was that other brands of similar size were much better because they were able to hold a higher output out of the box, no adjustment needed.
ToyKeeper set a default of 45°C, but that’s not something that should be used on every single model, it was just a safe limit so as not to get herself into any trouble.
Personally I think 45°C is fine for EDCs, or maybe even slightly to high, for bigger lights where the tube/handle is cooler then yeah it can be higher.
In any case this something that you should tweak yourself before selling, not ask the customer to do. I don’t know what volumes you are handling, but flashing 100 lights should take less than half an hour.