Its too funny ! Oh dear ! they really dont like competition ...

Its almost sad ! Oh well , a thorn in there side , is still a thorn in there side . Just got to love that , you know your onto a winner when the BS starts .

Wait, did the AW rep seriously show up in that thread and sh*t all over the Callie's Kustoms battery? How mindbogglingly unprofessional is that?

Good work as usual OLD 4570. At least the thread hasn't been locked - yet or worse deleted.

Ooooh , Im just waiting for it ! , I expect nothing less ... really !

old4570, you gotta get the iCharger and do 7 amps discharge! Or if you have the budget, 30A capability from the iCharger 3010.

Apparently battery technology stopped a couple years ago in China

Ya know whats really funny and keeps sticking in my mind is this... The company I'm importing batteries from sent me a few sample IMR battery's, one capable of 30A continuous discharges! This battery had even lower voltage sag than the Panasonic... I tested it a little, burnt it up and really didn't pay much attention to it because I really didn't have any use for it other than the novelty.

My basic line of thinking was this, what kind of flashlight person needs 30A discharge? Yes there may be a few people really really pushing the limits but someone with this kind of dedication probably wouldnt have much trouble sourcing their own batteries. I would think most flashlight people would prefer the extra capacity over extreme discharge rates? My thoughts are even if there is ZERO possibility of a 30A battery venting inst it more likely to catch OTHER things on fire?

So if your looking for the king of hi discharge batteries there are many other 18650 batteries that will beat the pants off ANY battery currently being sold to flashlight users. My feeling is these offer the very best ratio of hi discharge, low voltage sag, high capacity, long life and maybe some extra safety.

I need more money first ... A poor student ATM

xxllmm4, gotta play with Li-Po if you need high discharges. RC guys do tens of amps from their packs all the time.

Whats up with CPF lately? are they going mad? What is AW doing in that thread anyway defending his brand like little girl?

True if you are not bound to 18650 size there are many RC Lipo Pack that can easily do 100A discharge without sags and relatively cheaper too.

Most of the cheaper RC LiPo Pack are 20C but can go as high as 60C for constant discharge with the more expensive one.

Even this tiny 5usd lipo pack can do 20A, Or if you are looking to build you own pack with capacity similar to 18650 you can use this 20C 2200mah Single Cell lipo. Need more? you can try the 40C one. There are many alternative if once again 18650 is not your limitation.

"xxllmm4, gotta play with Li-Po if you need high discharges. RC guys do tens of amps from their packs all the time."

No kidding! I have a friend who has some crazy RC stunt planes. Some of these packs are insane! His favorite pass time is to charge up old packs and shoot them with a pellet gun The pellet not only pokes a hole in the pack but the lead shorts the entire thing out at the same time. Some of these packs will burst into flames and shoot 20 feet like a jet! Good times

Don't worry that thread will disappear or get buried somewhere as soon as the mods get a look at it. They obviously aren't going to profit from Callies awesome new cells so the thread is doomed.

Yeah's Li Po and pellets.

Power to weight ratio :

Yeah , lots of amps , and it seems an increasing amount of incidents , more power . more care needed .

Those RC boys sure are having fun ...

Too funny

First it was they don't compare to AW because they don't discharge at a high enough rate

"The video shows exactly what will happen when you dead short a 15C rated ( AW IMR18650 ) against a 5C rated ( Panasonic CGR18650CH ). The AW IMR will

dump at least 3X amperage and hence runs hotter due to its higher current output capability and lower cell internal resistance." -AW

Then it was who needs a battery that can discharge at this high a rate.

"There is also a practical question (in addition to safety--which does look enhanced with those PSS Panasonics over typical Lithium Cobalt chemistry cells) of how many light applications need a 10A draw to justify buying these." -Lux Luthor

But wait Lux, when Old4570 asked how the videos that AW posted showing high discharge rates were relevant to flashlights he got this response

"Current output capability and voltage under load characteristics are the core performance guidelines of a battery. These information are valuable to all users no matter you are

a flashaholics or other user groups. Every different user groups have their own means to test the performance of a battery ( using a flashlight / a laser / a vaporizor / a airsoft gun /
a motor or any other devices they are using ) but the results they are trying to look for is the same two elements." -AW

Why ever did AW not reply this way when Lux posted essentially the same message? whatever....

IMHO, the panasonic cell that callies customs is selling is a fantastic compromise between runtime, high discharge and high capacity. 2350mah and it is within spec to run a SST-90 at full bore? Impressive.

I'll bet if we wait a few months, AW will be selling these cells under the AW brand and all the CPF fan boys will be drooling over them. Any takers?

Actually , the videos AW provided links to did not show discharge , but rather voltage sag , and from what I saw , they were not High current at all ...

Which is why I countered with a 1Amp comparison to counter his original post ... to test voltage sag

Then :

Try discharging with 2C and beyond and you 'll see the difference. This thread is about high discharge battery after all. [ Negating his first post ]

In a regulated light it is actually more important because the more the voltage sag, the driver will draw more amperage to compensate - up to the point that the battery cannot handle the load ( LiCo - 2C ). High drain cell - up to the C rating. [ What ? ] Well regulated lights dont usually pull 2C , so ????

Capacity is of course important and is still the main goal for all battery manufacturers to pursue improvement. [ And here he shoots the IMR in the foot ]

Getting the right kind of batteries is important. You 'll need high discharge cells for high drain applications and high capacity cells for long runtime applications. [ And here ? He praises the Panasonic ? Well I think not - but he actually does ]

It makes it a bit hard to respond when there all over the place , I mean , they start of using one example , and when you counter , they flip flop trying to turn it against you , and why ? , this all seems very desperate to me ..

Why such desperation ?

And why is who sells it important ? Its a Panasonic , but apparently it makes a difference to some .. [ Damn - If you take a step back , and look at it as if you have nothing to do with it , its funny ass ! ] [ I know = as / but I prefer Ass ]

Wow , there really jumping in early with this one ... Keep an eye on the players folks ...

It dont get much better than this thread ...

By LuxLuthor

With what we have seen so far, the best anyone can give to your series of questions would lean favorable ONLY because they are Panasonic brand (they are not "CK" batteries). If you are trying to measure them against the IMR (assuming a quality brand of IMR) to backup the Panasonic claim, you need to see discharge tests at various amp loads. Without that being done by at least a few independent sources (not just by a retailer who is slapping a re-branding sticker and then selling them), we just cannot give you a more specific honest answer.

Again, most of us are NOT saying they are necessarily being over-hyped or over-promoted. We are saying there just is not yet enough reliable information presented. I do not know if the RC Forums have tested these cells yet, but they have many sharp, and highly respected "tools in their forum shed." I would look there next if I was sufficiently motivated. Following that, I would do my own series of CBA-II discharge tests. I would also want to see more information from Panasonic about the recharge rate limits, and cell cycle life if routinely used at 8-10A loads. There are many factors to consider.

What is it about this post that is making people take leave of there senses ?

With what we have seen so far, the best anyone can give to your series of questions would lean favorable ONLY because they are Panasonic brand (they are not "CK" batteries)

By this logic AW are not AW , nor are any other batteries as labeled as they are most likely outsourced .

(not just by a retailer who is slapping a re-branding sticker and then selling them)

Isnt this what most battery sellers do [ AW especially ? ]

I would also want to see more information from Panasonic about the recharge rate limits, and cell cycle life if routinely used at 8-10A loads

OK show me the money ! , who runs 8 - 10A loads - hands up please ..

And now I go to do as polite a reply as I can ...

@ old4570: Do you have masochistic tendencies, or why do you still post battery stuff there? You should know in the meantime that who pays the most to CPF has the best battery, simple as that.

Im old ! A curmudgeon ! and if some one attacks ? I dont run away ! ill stand my ground !

Anyhow , I posted a reply , I was as kind as I could be ...

Now to wait and see what the results are ???

This time around I know how low they can go , the WOW fiasco took me by surprise !

But I just can accept Bullshit ! Im just too old for that , give me facts and more facts with a side serving of truth and I will be a happy little camper !

I hope some one is saving the thread for posterity ? Its only just getting interesting ......

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