Led4power.com : LD-4 CC linear drivers, ILC-0/1 illuminated tailcaps, optics, MOSX, copper DTP MCPCBs...

Commercial Sellers' Spot
21

Hmm, I am intrigued, but somewhat (hopefully temporarily?) disappointed that the LD-3 was discontinued because I had a few uses for some features of it, and the features do not appear to be available in the LD-4.

Will LD-4 support multi-cells? I was planning to order an LD-3 in 6V configuration to run an XHP50.

The test says that the LD-A4 is specified for low power, and LD-B4 is specified for high power - but it appears the LD-B4 REQUIRES the special MOSLED PCB? (Or is the MOSLED PCB only recommended for best performance?) I have a quad LED light that I want to install an LD-3 LD-4 driver, but I do not want to swap MCPCB.

Regarding the MOSLED board: Even if thermal performance of an aluminum DTP board is almost as good as a copper DTP board, I like one other advantage of a Cu MCPCB: Cu MPCPB can be soldered to copper or brass pills, aluminum cannot. I always want to solder the MCPCB to the pill in a high power light.

22

Your shop doesn’t have 12A LD4, I assumed 9A is max for it. It’s nice to be wrong.

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@Jerommel

No,LD-3 uses LFPAK56 mosfet, LD-4 and MOSLED use LFPAK33.

@sac02

Current versions of LD-4 are single cell only, my plan is to make multicell version soon.

If you really need LD-3, I still have parts for a few, so I can build them (contact me on PM).

LD-A4 is like LD-3,it has mosfet on it's own pcb, so it's limited to ~5-6Watts of power dissipation (NOT power output, dissipation), and that's with very good thermal path, which usually means a lot of work.

LD-B4 doesn't have mosfet on it's own pcb, so it must be somewhere in flashlight - MOSLED is simplest solution, mosfet cooling is very good, and connection requires 1-2 extra signal wires, nothing more.

So, yes, with LD-B4 you need some kind of pcb with mosfet on it.

If you want to leave stock PCB, only option is then to use LD-A4 and mod pill for best thermal transfer (please check page 9 in datasheet under "Thermal path considerations").

Soldering MCPCB to pill has really negligible effect on performance, LEDs still don't have power densities that high, to such mods show any measurable effects, so those kind of mods give mostly "placebo" improvements.

@Agro

I didn't list 12A version mostly because at 12A it's logical to use MOSLED pcb, but I will add it if someone needs 12A for different application.

24

I was wondering about this, forgive my lack of understanding, so the LD-A4 would have no more trouble running a triple nichia at 4.5A total (which is the current I’d set to max) on an S2+ host than a 7135 driver would, is that correct?

25

To check that you must calculate worst case power dissipation in driver: Pd=I*(Vbatt-Vled), which is in this case Pd~4.5(4.2-3)=5.4 Watts, LD-A4 can handle this, but with very good thermal path,something like this(described in datasheet,page 9):

Idea is to make pill ~1.1mm deep (filling rest with metal), and use 0.5mm thick thermally conductive sheet between driver and modded pill. Thermal transfer in that case is pretty good, and depends mostly on thermal sheet conductivity (over 5W/mK are very good,but also expensive). Max. power dissipation can be increased this way to up to 6-7Watts@60C. But, this requires quite a bit of work/time, cost is high especially if you must pay for machined parts like alu rod piece from picture, and this method is still thermally not as good as MOSLED+LD-B4 combination.

26

BTW, I also have these, just not listed yet on web:

These should be great for single LEDs with very low Vf at 3-5A. I didn't test MOSLED XM vs DTP yet, but difference in output should be even smaller than between XP versions, since thermal pad is significantly bigger (which matters a lot with non-DTP pcbs).

27

Would be OK to scrap the dielecric layer under the thermal pad and fill it with solder to make it DTP? Would it be worthwhile?
Have you considered twisting LED pads on the quad board like RMM does ?

28

Board core is made from aluminum,so it would be difficult/impossible to solder LED, anyway gain would be minimal on triple and quads.

Yes, I considered twisting LEDs on quad, but there was very little space for that, I will consider it again in possible future revisions.

29

the only practical way to convert it to DTP is to dremel out the thermal pad all the way through
and insert a piece copper that fills the hole

also a way of use a DTP star is to use a bigger FET like SIR404 and use thermal epoxy to get it directly glued to the shelf

30

Got my LD-4 setup in today!

I put mine in an orange powdercoated S2+ host from 3Tronics. Emitters are 219b sw40 r9080s from Clemence. Solid copper pill is from kiriba. Everything else is from right here in this thread. This is definitely a BLF light :slight_smile:

I started with the tail. The setup came with a loose spring in the bag that needed attaching. I did a bypass while I was at it. After that it just dropped right in the tail. Original retaining ring went right back on. Perfect fit.


So far so good. Time to prep the driver. The small wires were included. I had larger gauge stuff here for the main power leads. For battery on the back, I chose a brass button instead of a spring. I like brass buttons. I did have to refer to the datasheet since not all the pads and holes are labeled, but no big deal.

Next I flowed the emitters onto the mcpcb. This is where I hit my first real snag. The polarity on the mcpcb seems to just be marked with little corner dots, like most emitters also have. So I assumed (never a good thing…) that was the correct orientation. Wrong. I should’ve buzzed it out to check but to be honest I was a bit thrown off by the FET sitting there. You can’t just buzz the board out like normal. I mean you can of course, and I did once I got my head around how it all works, its just not what I’m used to, ya know… So anyway I flowed them backwards at first. So I had to do it again. No big deal. I do have one word of caution here: the mask on my mcpcb started to bubble a bit after that second flow. First time went flawlessly — second time was almost too much. I don’t usually have trouble bubbling masks, but I did a bit with this one. Seems to be fine so no real problem, just not ideal.

So anyway, all that said here’s my mcpcb all flowed THE FIRST TIME! The emitter polarity in this pic is wrong! Do not copy this! :slight_smile: Also a pic of my kiriba heatsink compared to the original pill. It didn’t come that smooth; I lapped it.

Final assembly. And here I hit my second “snag”, again not really a snag just some confusion on my part. The issue started because of what I thought was a short on the negative wire. The large wires are through-hole and are really close to touching on the driver retaining ring, so I had covered them with kapton already. But still when I buzzed out all my connections, which is something I always do before putting power to anything, it read like a short to ground. On most drivers this would basically be a driver bypass, so I went hunting. Turns out that’s the expected behavior, because the FET is up top doing the regulating so on this funky driver both positive and negative battery are passed straight through to the mcpcb. Makes sense once you think about it, but wasn’t expected.

Anyway, here’s two pics of my finished pill. Sorry the mcpcb looks so bad now… :confused:

And a couple of the finished light:

Works great! The UI is really great, love the programmability. LOVE the moonlight options. This thing gets crazy hot, fast, at 12 amps cc. I haven’t even turned on the DD option because that’s not why I bought this driver. But at this point I have no concerns about this aluminum mcpcb moving heat because it definitely does that. And I really like the lighted tailcap. I’ve built a bunch of these things and to be honest I was hesitant to buy this one due to the cost, but it looks great, I love the 8-led setup, and I especially love the idea of LVP back there.

That was a long post. Sorry. Here’s the tl;dr:

  • This driver/mcpcb/tailcap setup is friggin’ sweet and I need a lot more of them.
  • Love the UI and programming options, especially all the moonlights. The double/triple click options are nice too.
  • Careful with your emitters. Polarity on the mcpcb is funky and not clearly marked.
  • Careful with heat. The mcpcb mask seems to bubble a bit easier than others. Could just be user error though.
  • Careful that the positive through-hole doesn’t short on your driver retaining ring, but don’t be surprised if the negative reads shorted…because its supposed to be.
31

Very nice work, emarkd, and good to know how the lighted tail kit works and that it looks good. I like the LVP function of it very much too, I have had a battery drained by a lighted tail to 2.3V already before I discovered it (not a big issue for me, but still…).

And indeed a flashlight can hardly be more BLF than this one :slight_smile:

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Hi emarkd,

thank you for this short review/how-to post!

Dot close to LED is ANODE mark, I forgot to add this note in description,just added it on WEB page.

Bubbling solder mask: I soldered FET and NTC with lead-free solder(40C higher melting temperature compared to Pb solder) without any problems. It seems temperature was too high for too long, and you can see in your second MCPCB picture that what used to be white silkscreen in now brown-almost invisible, that is a 100% sign temperature was way too hot.White silkscreen should stay white after soldering, even if it becomes yellowish, temperature was still too high.

I use hot plate with low thermal mass, and this gives me best soldering results. If you are going to order in the future, just send me PM before that, I will put some MCPCBs extra.

On LD-B4 "negative" is kinda unique, it's basically only shunt resistor between GND ring and wire, so resistance is indeed close to short.

To prevent potential shorts between wires and retaining rings, use "flush cut" type of pliers, I use Piergiacomi TR-30 pliers and they can cut very low, after cutting if leaves only 0.2-0.3mm tall solder joint.

http://www.piergiacomi.com/piergiacomi/en/products/hand-tools/285-taglio-raso-dettaglio.html#TR30

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Also added installation instructions for ILC-1 on my web:

Installation instructions:
  • Unscrew flashlight tailcap and remove all original parts (tailcap button,washer,pcb with switch, retaining ring)
  • If not installed, solder spring on ILC-1 bottom side
  • Remove kapton tape from ILC-1 brass ring (protection from oxidation)
  • Insert translucent tailcap button into tailcap
  • Insert ILC-1 module
  • Screw original retaining ring back
34

Thanks for the input Neven. I agree it looks like I overheated my mcpcb. I don’t have any “good” equipment for reflow and just do it on my stovetop. Hard to regulate that. And while I do have a set of those “flush-cut” side cutters, they’re pretty old and dull and don’t bite like they used to. May be time to replace those. Anyway, my post was intended to give folks coming after me a few things to look out for, learn from my mistakes. :slight_smile: This driver setup is a really really good product and you should be proud of it.

I really do appreciate you offering to send me a new mcpcb even though the damage to mine is my own fault. That’s very nice of you and really good customer service. Its not necessary though. I will be ordering more from you in the next couple of days, once I plan out a few more builds using your parts, and can just toss an extra board in my order. That’s one of the cheaper lessons I’ve learned working on elecrtronics. :slight_smile: I would like to be able to order some of those single-emitter boards though. Any chance you’d be adding those to your web store anytime soon?

—
Mark

35

I will add single LED boards within 1-2day.

36

I do not understand,
If “2-12Amps possible by Adjusting current in UI ”

Why are there options for 3, 6, 9 and 12Amps version?

37

That confused me at first too. A single driver can’t go 2-12. There’s a 2-3 amp version, or 4-6 amps, or 7-9 amps, or 8-12. So if you order the 12 amp driver, it’ll only go “down” to 8, etc.

There’s a full chart on page 4 of these datasheet, here: https://led4power.com/download/4172/

38

2-12Amps is possible with LD-x4 series, not from single driver; 3A version is adjustable from 2A-3A, 6A from 4A-6A, 9A from 7A-9A, 12A from 8A-12A.

39

OK, I see

I have Ordered, 12A for 4XP, 9A for 3XP
Does it fit?

ILC-1 illuminated tailcap 480uA
How much brightness is there?(about)

40

Not sure about your driver question, but I can try on your second. I ordered a white tail at 240uA and find it way too bright. Its easily visible during the day and uncomfortable to look at in the dark. So I’ll be opening mine back up to dim it down considerably. No big deal, I expected to do a bit of tuning.

That said, this is a really personal issue and we don’t all like the same brightness. I’m sure there are folks who would prefer this one just like it is, nice and bright.