When I was in college I did my music listening on cheap headphones and laptops speakers. So my 128kbps and 192kbps files were not really an issue. My hardware couldn’t have reproduced the full range of high or low frequencies even if the files had contained them.
Recently though, I’ve learned a lot about the differences between a nice 16-bit FLAC and lossy MP3s. And with decent bookshelf speakers already in my possession and a subwoofer purchase on the horizon, I’ve reached a point where I think it is worth leveling-up my music library.
Now before anyone says high definition files are snake-oil, I’m not just talking about the difference between 16-bit and 24-bit FLAC. I’m not even talking about the difference between 320kbps and CD quality. I have tracks in my collection that I pulled off youtube when i was broke and in college. One track in particular has a bitrate of 155kbps and a spectrum analysis with Spek shows that the audible frequencies have been cut off at 11Khz. There’s GOING to be an audible difference.
Anyway, if anyone knows a great place to find audio cds for cheap I’m open to suggestions. I’m currently looking on Discoggs, Ebay, and FB marketplace. I’m also going to be looking at sites with FLAC audio available for the things I don’t care enough about to own physically.
Oops, too late: High definition is (mostly) snake-oil.
To be clear, I am talking about, say, a 320kbit CBR MP3 compared to FLAC but both encoded from the same high quality source with optimal encoder settings.
Extensive ABX testing has shown that most people cannot hear the difference even on punishingly expensive hardware.
That being said, lossy encodings occasionally do have audible artefacts that you can hear if you know the track well and when you are actively looking hearing for them.
I’m curious about the testing conditions and methodology. Where can I find documentation?
I recently purchased a CD and ripped a 16 bit FLAC and compared it to another FLAC copy that I had once “acquired” on the internet. Being rather jaded, I assumed that the shady FLAC was probably a compressed MP3 source in a FLAC container. So my bias was that my new 16 bit FLAC would sound better. But to my chagrin, the original shady FLAC sounded just a tiny bit better. I thought that some very soft background instruments were easier to make out. That’s what got me to download Spek and start doing spectrum analysis. I was able to confirm that my shady FLAC was 24-bit and had no cut-offs in frequency.
Now, I definitely don’t claim to be able to hear past 22,000Hz and the computer speakers I was using don’t even claim to produce anything audible past 20,000Hz. Something else has to be going on there. Maybe the source used for the CD production was a different master than was used in the production of that 24-bit FLAC. Perhaps differing sources for commercially available FLAC files has created bias towards the format?
Curious about the 320kbps CBR MP3 vs 16-bit FLAC question. I think most 320kbps MP3 cut off before the limits of human hearing. I’m not sure if CBR guarantees that doesn’t happen or not?
BTW your earlier points about “most people” not hearing a difference and “hearing for” differences both ring true to me. For instance, I’d think that individuals who are really familiar with the in-person sound of various instruments might be able to notices differences that most would miss and they might miss those subtle nuances.
Go to your local thrift stores. I’ve amassed a library of almost 50,000 songs ripped onto a HD. The stores I go to charge $2 for a cd. Have to be committed to checking them out to get a decent library, I’ve been doing it for quite some time. Considering the costs of the alternatives, it’s worth it.
For songs that are unlikely to be found this way, I use discogs to flesh out the collection.
MP3’s are good for playing on your phone or just when you need noise. Note though that most songs after the year 2000 seem to be engineered to sound best as an mp3, my taste is mostly before that though.
There are definitely some people who have extremely good hearing who can discern nuances most of us cannot.
One important point that many people forget is about the quality of the source material the lossy copy was made from. If the source is crap, so is your copy, regardless of format.
I’ve done informal A/B testing with good headphones (Sony MDR-V6’s) and really have to focus to tell the difference between 320k MP3s and FLACs. Heck, a CD track played on a late-gen Walkman and 320k MP3 on my phone are similarly difficult to distinguish - and that’s introducing some hardware differences.
Neil is so old there’s no possible way he can tell the difference between a 16/44 and 24/192 or whatever. He really has a bug up his ass about it though.
I’m a pirate, old habits die hard I guess. I was a kid when Napster was a thing, so I got into file sharing early.
These days Soulseek is a great place to aquire all kinds of stuff, FLAC, MP3, even high res files if you want to try them out but not pay the high cost for them.
Obviously if you want to support music stores that sell used CDs, or even the artists themselves by buying the songs new, do that instead.
Yes. I think it is/was called PONO. Had their own player and music service.
It seems like there ended up being some controversy around the whole thing. Like they were just upsampling some of their music… ???
Absolutely, whenever possible I want to have actual physical tangible media, but all too often prices are beyond ridiculous, and that’s if you can get them at all. So yeah, time to hoist the Jolly Rancher and have some fun.
I’ll try to keep this as short as possible and try not to offend, here goes;
After having sold Audio for many years of my life in the past, certain things become obvious.
The same folks who swear they hear a difference with equal length speaker cables vs cables that are cut to needed length will convince themselves they can hear a difference with these higher bitrates/lossless etc.
I am am referring to standard good pressing vinyl, properly Eq’d CD vs these super/mega/hyper products.
Bottom line really has to be the only true meter/device that makes music sound good/pleasurable is what is sweet to Your Ear. The most important listening device is Your Brain.
If you have ever Eq’ed a room to be as close to perfect flat, then you observe that is sounds just that way, Flat and Boring. You end up changing that tone to something that sounds good to YOU.
Our ears each have a different frequency response just a each of our eyes perceive colors/images differently.
The technician mixing the masters hears things different than others as well.
It’s all a crapshoot.
Here is a nice chart to give an idea of what instruments actually go into the upper range (10-20Khz) http://www.guitarbuilding.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Instrument-Sound-EQ-Chart.pdf
Midrange is predominant and probably most important.
Specs don’t mean squat to me because manufacturers, they all lie and there really are no consequences for doing so.
Buy/rent/acquire what sounds good to you, ignore the hype.
I’ve been looking for CD deals on eBay, and an occasional Amazon purchase, to build my digital music collection and save the CDs as backup. Ripping all my files in 320 kbps MP3 allows me to fit my whole library into my digital music players at once, on inexpensive memory cards.
At my age, I’m not likely to hear any difference between that format and a “lossless” format, but even if there would be a small difference, that is a reasonable trade-off for the memory savings of using MP3 at maximum quality.
Any audible differences between a high rate mp3 and a lossless file are mostly going to depend on the player you use. By upgrading over time I have about 7 music players and about 15 pairs of iem’s ranging from budget to not so budget. Pairing my best players with my best iem’s is light years different sound from the budget ones.
GIGO, Garbage In, Garbage Out. Some people can hear a greater range of difference, some cannot. I’ll bet that virtually everyone will hear some difference.
I’m not a speaker length makes a difference kind of guy. But I am a McIntosh tube amp will sound better than a Yamaha solid state amp kinda guy.
