Exactly David. They love it when we give great reviews and they reap the benefits ONLY to blame the vendors when THEIR product goes bad.
As an example, JohnnyMac has an issue with a C22C. Sunwayman should step up to the plate...and I do think/hope they will.
I have an issue with a JetBeam HC20 headlamp. JetBeam frankly does not care about their junk product and suggests that I buy from a US vendor. This is stuff that forum members need to be made aware of. Could I harp on the vendor? Sure but the headlamp is 5 months old. It is JetBeam's problem and they choose to do nothing so I will never buy or recommend any JetBeam product.
Well, you can figure there’s probably some quality control triage going out the door of the factory.
I’d guess it’s:
Best third to the military/police (shoot you if you cheat)
Second quality to resellers (US/EU vendors) (cost you money if you cheat)
Third rate to ebay/online buyers (sorry, Charlie)
Great idea. Look at the Acebeam charging issue for a perfect example. How many would have spotted the issue unless it was brought to everyone’s attention?
I’m all for it
I guess it all boils down to who exactly is responsible for the product after transaction has been completed.
If the seller lists, that all issues should resolved with manufacturer, then manufacturer should take care of all issues.
If there are no such claims from seller, then all the issues should be handled by the sellers themselves.
Its up to sellers to report to manufacturer that their product-x sucks and has high return/issue rate.
Unless you buy directly from manufacturer, in that case they will be both seller and manufacturer and should take care of your item.
Makes perfect sense to me, you get support from the place you bought your item from, unless contract says otherwise.
HOWEVER, I agree that separate “class-action” forum with people reporting their items problems in volumes would be great!
But it should not turn into universal “I think there might be something wrong with my light” forum section! Instead it should focus on only verified numerous issues with product X/Y/Z and only legit threads should be allowed there, maybe only through admin?
> Unless you buy directly from manufacturer
But mostly we get sources like ZeusRay where the seller is in between us and whoever’s making the parts (probably several different sources) and whoever’s assembling whatever they get into what claims to be that particular flashlight
— thus, the lottery.
Because nobody really knows what they’re selling. Not the various people making parts; not whoever puts whatever they get into a “finished” light; and not the seller.
Well, thats what you get, when you buy custom product from “hands” and not something produced in higher volumes with somewhat predictable error rate from big manufacturers sold by reputable retailers.
No matter where a person goes...a vendor can only handle warranty for so long. Even the USA sellers can't do anything because the manufacturers will not stand behind. When they do it is out of their own pockets. That needs to stop and if they (manufacturers) are going advertise warranty then they need to stand by it.
For example:
The Sunwayman C22C problems
The Nitecore with off-center LED
My JetBeam HC20
I know of no resolution from the manufacturer of any of those and JetBeam told me to find a big cliff.
Did they re-unite? At least couple of years ago there were news/rumors, that all Nitecore lights were made by JetBeam and Nitecore was only a brand name and reseller, then they double-crossed JetBeam and went to design and sell their own lights and chargers.
Maybe you are right. On a closer look at the sites I was getting my info from, they seem outdated. Sysmax only brand today appears to be Nitecore. My mistake, sorry!
Looking at JetBeam's site, in the warranty section, they still state Sysmax. I have no idea. It makes no difference. Sysmax or Sysno or whoever. A subgroup that calls out a product defect will at the least nix that model.
I have Nitecore products and they work flawlessly BUT the off-centered LED is inexcusable, just as a defective JetBeam headlamp. I will not mention JohnnyMac's issue because it looks like it is being handled.
The point is that they do not stand behind what they state in writing. They know that by forcing you to pay US shipping prices that they will win out.
Second If “(the royal we)” dont want to take the risk/costsavings to buy direct frm China then dont.
We have lots of stand up folks right here in the good ol US of A.
Zebralight
Mtn Electronics
andrew and amanda
(come in guys let fill in the prefered vender list)
Third My Nitecores have been “centered” so maybe you are extending a limited issue and treating it like it is a common occurance?
Let face it, buying low value items direct from china and then being suprised that freight is more then the disposable part smacks of wanting your cake and eating it also… ($.02).
So yes if we find Chineese distributors who have US or Canadian offices we should use them (but lets not be suprised if those are hard to find).
Are you intrested in acting as point man to set the MFG streight?
It’s probably a thankless job but maybe a virtual seat on the board will get them to pay for the return shipping?
It is one way we “might”be able to influence low end MFG’s in china?
I am not referring to the vendors. I am referring to manufacturers. The manufacturers have a bad habit if dumping everything on the vendor and that only goes so far. It isn't looking for a free lunch. The problems for the most part are minimal yet because they are minimal they think they do not have to do anything.
As for risk.....are you or anybody willing to say that anyone should gladly turn over their money for a failed product....and to throw a little more in there...to not file a PayPal claim...which btw harms the vendor not the manufacturer.
When it is a vendor issue, by all means hold them accountable. How often, though, do we see people on this forum blame vendors for problems that belong to a manufacturer. In my case I could have complained to the vendor and they probably would have taken care of it BUT it is long after the sale and not their problem IMO.
All I am suggesting is leveling the playing field and put blame on manufacturers when it belongs to them and not the vendor as has been the norm.
Nope. It is a collective thing. It also has nothing to do with return shipping. If they want the return let them issue a pickup order. They could offer to send parts to those than "can". They could offer to send a replacement. There are several options available to these manufacturers.
“nothing to do with shipping” I bet this is actually a big stumbling block on low margin items, you said so your self when you righly noted the the shipping cost more then the item and that the MFG’s know that.
A “pick up order” is paying for return shipping.
I bet that once they receive the item (they being non flyby night companies) I buy my nightcore via Banggood and I have not needed it but I suspect that if I had an issue either Banggood or Nitecore would send a replacement out (admittedly after recipt of the defective unit).
The time involved to (return and then the second shipping time) resolve a defective item issue is not the MFG responsibility. But I dont like how long it would take either.
For industrial issues the FOB is often well negotiated because face it neither side wants the expense, hassle and liability.
I think we can agree that it’s pretty standard industry practice I if you want a replacement the item gets returned first. Of course for ongoing business relationships, exceptions are often made.
Yes maybe we should push for North American “sales” and “customer service/warrenty” offices but until “They” loose enough business because of that reason it will likely not happen.
But I do think you are right that for the most part purchasing low value items from small sellers is on a defacto as-is basis. I dont like it either but I think that is the case. Face it we are asking that they spend a lot of oney so that they can spend even more money (It’s just not a chineese low margin way of doing business).
eBay/PayPal does a pretty good job. I have not used the AliExpress dispute proccess but as it is created by Chineese industry I dont think it is as buyer centric as eBay’s.
But like I said I have no direct experience with it.