We have sub-forums that allow members to voice their distastes or problems with vendors. Very often I believe that the vendors are caught in the middle, and even sometimes publicly abused by the end-users and manufacturers alike.
I think that it is time that we start to hold manufacturers accountable. They claim to offer warranties but in effect they are useless because they will not stand behind them unless we pay outrageous return shipping, often more than the replacement. They know this and in effect many lights are AS-IS. In a world market we should not have to be limited to only ordering from the US. They never refuse to take our money in China - do they?
Without what we would be buying they would not have they have today. I am not referring to just BLF purchasers but all of us. I know it has been mentioned to hold manufacturers accountable but not much ever materializes. Just as we have a section for vendor experiences we should have a section for manufacturer or product experiences. It can serve two purposes. BLF members can see issues AND if the manufacturer has any integrity they can work to resolve the issue.
I know we have a general forum but this would make it easy to spot issues immediately.
Manufacturers in China can just change their name if the old one gets a bad rap. Suddenly, we have a new manufacturer springing up, making new promises, with the same old junk lights and even junkier customer support. The big names might take notice of our public reprimands, because they’ve spent some time and effort getting good name recognition. But, we don’t deal with those nearly as much as we do the “budget” brands that really have little to no investment in their actual name. Still, if it’s easy to set up, it might be worth doing. If nothing else, it will help us to help each other make better choices of who we purchase lights from (not the retailer, but the manufacturer, as you said).
Exactly David. They love it when we give great reviews and they reap the benefits ONLY to blame the vendors when THEIR product goes bad.
As an example, JohnnyMac has an issue with a C22C. Sunwayman should step up to the plate...and I do think/hope they will.
I have an issue with a JetBeam HC20 headlamp. JetBeam frankly does not care about their junk product and suggests that I buy from a US vendor. This is stuff that forum members need to be made aware of. Could I harp on the vendor? Sure but the headlamp is 5 months old. It is JetBeam's problem and they choose to do nothing so I will never buy or recommend any JetBeam product.
Well, you can figure there’s probably some quality control triage going out the door of the factory.
I’d guess it’s:
Best third to the military/police (shoot you if you cheat)
Second quality to resellers (US/EU vendors) (cost you money if you cheat)
Third rate to ebay/online buyers (sorry, Charlie)
Great idea. Look at the Acebeam charging issue for a perfect example. How many would have spotted the issue unless it was brought to everyone’s attention?
I’m all for it
I guess it all boils down to who exactly is responsible for the product after transaction has been completed.
If the seller lists, that all issues should resolved with manufacturer, then manufacturer should take care of all issues.
If there are no such claims from seller, then all the issues should be handled by the sellers themselves.
Its up to sellers to report to manufacturer that their product-x sucks and has high return/issue rate.
Unless you buy directly from manufacturer, in that case they will be both seller and manufacturer and should take care of your item.
Makes perfect sense to me, you get support from the place you bought your item from, unless contract says otherwise.
HOWEVER, I agree that separate “class-action” forum with people reporting their items problems in volumes would be great!
But it should not turn into universal “I think there might be something wrong with my light” forum section! Instead it should focus on only verified numerous issues with product X/Y/Z and only legit threads should be allowed there, maybe only through admin?
> Unless you buy directly from manufacturer
But mostly we get sources like ZeusRay where the seller is in between us and whoever’s making the parts (probably several different sources) and whoever’s assembling whatever they get into what claims to be that particular flashlight
— thus, the lottery.
Because nobody really knows what they’re selling. Not the various people making parts; not whoever puts whatever they get into a “finished” light; and not the seller.
Well, thats what you get, when you buy custom product from “hands” and not something produced in higher volumes with somewhat predictable error rate from big manufacturers sold by reputable retailers.
No matter where a person goes...a vendor can only handle warranty for so long. Even the USA sellers can't do anything because the manufacturers will not stand behind. When they do it is out of their own pockets. That needs to stop and if they (manufacturers) are going advertise warranty then they need to stand by it.
For example:
The Sunwayman C22C problems
The Nitecore with off-center LED
My JetBeam HC20
I know of no resolution from the manufacturer of any of those and JetBeam told me to find a big cliff.
Did they re-unite? At least couple of years ago there were news/rumors, that all Nitecore lights were made by JetBeam and Nitecore was only a brand name and reseller, then they double-crossed JetBeam and went to design and sell their own lights and chargers.
Maybe you are right. On a closer look at the sites I was getting my info from, they seem outdated. Sysmax only brand today appears to be Nitecore. My mistake, sorry!
Looking at JetBeam's site, in the warranty section, they still state Sysmax. I have no idea. It makes no difference. Sysmax or Sysno or whoever. A subgroup that calls out a product defect will at the least nix that model.
I have Nitecore products and they work flawlessly BUT the off-centered LED is inexcusable, just as a defective JetBeam headlamp. I will not mention JohnnyMac's issue because it looks like it is being handled.
The point is that they do not stand behind what they state in writing. They know that by forcing you to pay US shipping prices that they will win out.
Second If “(the royal we)” dont want to take the risk/costsavings to buy direct frm China then dont.
We have lots of stand up folks right here in the good ol US of A.
Zebralight
Mtn Electronics
andrew and amanda
(come in guys let fill in the prefered vender list)
Third My Nitecores have been “centered” so maybe you are extending a limited issue and treating it like it is a common occurance?
Let face it, buying low value items direct from china and then being suprised that freight is more then the disposable part smacks of wanting your cake and eating it also… ($.02).
So yes if we find Chineese distributors who have US or Canadian offices we should use them (but lets not be suprised if those are hard to find).
Are you intrested in acting as point man to set the MFG streight?
It’s probably a thankless job but maybe a virtual seat on the board will get them to pay for the return shipping?
It is one way we “might”be able to influence low end MFG’s in china?